Liveaboards other than residential

[12uthy]

Now you see why I brought this subject up. Despite it being discussed ad nausiem (to some people) there is still a lot of confusion out there which I wanted to get clarified for us newbies.

 

What would be the price difference between the two?

[12uthy]

FCUK them... I guess I cant say that... but seriously at work & at college, means they are old enough. I love my kids but they can find their own life. My parents kicked me out when I was 17 (cuz I got expelled from boarding school) & it never did me any harm. I have been a high flyer at Prada, a traffic warden, & on the dole, & a world tour on a motorbike (lasted 1 year & which means Scotland, France, & 2 weeks in the USA. had to ring my dad to borrow air fare home when I ran out of money!)

lol My husband said that and I suppose you are both right. It's just that I'm still only just adjusting to the fact that I have grown up sons eeek! (I thought I'd be young forever lol)

[jonk]

I think you are misunderstanding. The residential mooring doesnt require you to be away, but the permanent mooring does require you to be away... 2 different moorings.

 

OK - I AM confused !!! I thought that there were Residential moorings where you could live aboard permanently, Non/semi-residential where you are only allowed to live a few days per week but the boat can remain moored, and totally non-residential where you just moor your boat. All of these are Permanent moorings - so what category are you talking about where you can live aboard for 11 months and only have to cruise for 1 month?

 

John

[Proud Salopian]

OK - I AM confused !!! I thought that there were Residential moorings where you could live aboard permanently, Non/semi-residential where you are only allowed to live a few days per week but the boat can remain moored, and totally non-residential where you just moor your boat. All of these are Permanent moorings - so what category are you talking about where you can live aboard for 11 months and only have to cruise for 1 month?

 

John

 

I suspect it's to do with planning permission - I know that many cottages in national parks, etc, can only be lived in 10/11 months of the year, in whatever arrangement (ie for 10 months lived in, 2 months not, or for a couple of days per week all year round). It sounds like this residential mooring has planning permission to be residential, but with a similar "holiday cottage" restriction.

[Midnight Rider]

I think that there has been a lot of misunderstanding over the last few posts.

 

Mr Cruddy's residential mooring will not require to be vacated at all through the year ( and he may be required to pay Council Tax)

 

Any non=residential mooring may have conditions attached such as 'must not live aboard for more than 3 days a week' or simply stressing that it is a 'leisure' mooring.

 

These conditions are not always enforced & you will only find that out by talking to the existing moorers.

 

But break the conditions at your peril or be prepared to move on.

[Proud Salopian]

Thing is, a mooring's residential status essentially harks to its planning permission. And I'm pretty sure there will have been some permissions for residential moorings that have planning restrictions (attached to the permission) relating to how much of the year a person can live there at. As I said, it's not unusual for other tourist-related accommodation in rural areas, and I think many councils see canals as a leisure-only thing, even marinas, rather than somewhere people live continuously.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Proud Salopian

[jonk]

I think that there has been a lot of misunderstanding over the last few posts.

 

Mr Cruddy's residential mooring will not require to be vacated at all through the year ( and he may be required to pay Council Tax)

 

Any non=residential mooring may have conditions attached such as 'must not live aboard for more than 3 days a week' or simply stressing that it is a 'leisure' mooring.

 

These conditions are not always enforced & you will only find that out by talking to the existing moorers.

 

But break the conditions at your peril or be prepared to move on.

 

So is the permanent mooring referred to Residential or Leisure?

(But the better news is, for their permanent moorings, they only require you to be away for 1 month a year, & that is done cumulatively, in other words I can go off Friday & Saturday nights & that counts towards my time away...)

How can that be a Leisure mooring when it is full-time live-aboard for 11 months of the year? What about Council Tax? Still unclear I'm afraid, sorry!

 

John

[Midnight Rider]

Thing is, a mooring's residential status essentially harks to its planning permission. And I'm pretty sure there will have been some permissions for residential moorings that have planning restrictions (attached to the permission) relating to how much of the year a person can live there at. As I said, it's not unusual for other tourist-related accommodation in rural areas, and I think many councils see canals as a leisure-only thing, even marinas, rather than somewhere people live continuously.

If you equate Residential Moorings with Park Homes ----- you have an address, pay Council Tax & live there all year (if you wish)

 

Then Leisure Moorings with Holiday Park Caravans ---- you don't (by & large) have an address, don't pay Council Tax & are restricted as to how long you can stay.

 

But true that it's down to planning restrictions afaik.

[Proud Salopian]

If you equate Residential Moorings with Park Homes ----- you have an address, pay Council Tax & live there all year (if you wish)

 

Then Leisure Moorings with Holiday Park Caravans ---- you don't (by & large) have an address, don't pay Council Tax & are restricted as to how long you can stay.

 

But true that it's down to planning restrictions afaik.

 

But there's another class of accommodation, in-between, which is like the holiday cottage which can only be lived in for, say, 11 months out of 12. (The cottage could very well be lived in for 12 months out of 12, but for policy reasons the council only give permission that is restricted... essentially turning it into a tourist/second-home dwelling.) Not sure how council tax works there, but my suspicion is that you would have to pay it.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Proud Salopian

[Midnight Rider]

But there's another class of accommodation, in-between, which is like the holiday cottage which can only be lived in for, say, 11 months out of 12. Not sure how council tax works there, but my suspicion is that you would have to pay it.

No --- in my example it's second one.

[Ssscrudddy]

I didnt mean to confuse anyone.

 

This is a brand new marina (not quite finished) in the centre of town (Northampton Becketts Park), built by

 

1.Northampton Borough Council

2.WNDC West Northampton Developement Council (a government quango)

3.Environment Agency

 

& it is being run by the EA.

 

There are 80 moorings in total.

 

They have a residential mooring which allows you to live there on your boat permanently all year. They have 6 of these. for a 57 foot boat it is £2300 per year + council tax (a one sixth share of a band A house) & I get an address can vote, doctors, etc...

 

Then they have a bunch of visitor moorings.

 

Then they have the "permanent" moorings, maybe they have a different name. These your boat can stay there all year, but you cant live on it all year, but you can live on it for a bit, in fact quite a bit & they have no rules about consecutive nights. You have to be not living on your boat there for 1 month a year (which they said any time away counts, they said weekends away count towards the 1 month - their rules). For a 57 foot boat this is £1685 & no council tax, no address.

 

(A caravan park nothing to do with the above, a few miles down the river & also has a marina, lets you stay as long as you want, but you have to be not there for 1 month a year, but they close the park for this... so even if you hadnt been there for 11 months, if its the month they close tough luck!)

Edited September 10, 2011 by Ssscrudddy

[jonk]

I didnt mean to confuse anyone.

 

This is a brand new marina (not quite finished) in the centre of town (Northampton Becketts Park), built by

 

1.Northampton Borough Council

2.WNDC West Northampton Developement Council (a government quango)

3.Environment Agency

 

& it is being run by the EA.

 

There are 80 moorings in total.

 

They have a residential mooring which allows you to live there on your boat permanently all year. They have 6 of these. for a 57 foot boat it is £2300 per year + council tax (a one sixth share of a band A house) & I get an address can vote, doctors, etc...

 

Then they have a bunch of visitor moorings.

 

Then they have the "permanent" moorings, maybe they have a different name. These your boat can stay there all year, but you cant live on it all year, but you can live on it for a bit, in fact quite a bit & they have no rules about consecutive nights. You have to be not living on your boat there for 1 month a year (which they said any time away counts, they said weekends away count towards the 1 month - their rules). For a 57 foot boat this is £1685 & no council tax, no address.

 

(A caravan park nothing to do with the above, a few miles down the river & also has a marina, lets you stay as long as you want, but you have to be not there for 1 month a year, but they close the park for this... so even if you hadnt been there for 11 months, if its the month they close tough luck!)

 

Thanks for that!

Seems to be very strange to me though - if you can live on a boat on a mooring for 11 months of the year how anyone can claim that it is not a residential mooring beats me! I didn't live in my house that number of months! I wonder what the result of a court case would reveal - is it a Council Tax avoidance scheme for example.

Anyway - while the goings good it seems a good bet, at least for the time being

 

John

[carlt]

Thanks for that!

Seems to be very strange to me though - if you can live on a boat on a mooring for 11 months of the year how anyone can claim that it is not a residential mooring beats me!

The thing is there are no hard and fast rules, for boat dwellers and RPP.

 

Caravan sites, Park Homes and houses all have legislation that clearly states the requirements that have to be met.

 

It isn't even clear whether or not a boat, that is your residence, moored adjacent to land without RPP, has actually changed the use of that land so RPP may not even be necessary.

[Ssscrudddy]

Just found this on the Environmental Agency website (it's only just gone up)

 

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/boating/132472.aspx

Edited September 15, 2011 by Ssscrudddy

[DavidUK]

Maybe the confusion has arisen due to the different regulations between the EA and BW?

[ditchcrawler]

I suspect it's to do with planning permission - I know that many cottages in national parks, etc, can only be lived in 10/11 months of the year, in whatever arrangement (ie for 10 months lived in, 2 months not, or for a couple of days per week all year round). It sounds like this residential mooring has planning permission to be residential, but with a similar "holiday cottage" restriction.

I looked at buying a holiday home earlier this year, this was on a smallish cliff top site with brick built one and two story holiday homes. The strange thing was in some of them you could have 12 month occupancy and some only 10 months, there appeared to be no rime of reason as to which were which. It was all down to planning.

[Smelly]

Just found this on the Environmental Agency website (it's only just gone up)

 

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/boating/132472.aspx

 

"There are no flood warnings in place"

[petalponk]

Sawley Marina has residential moorings around £3000 a year this includes free electric and an engine service

 

The leisure moorings grade 1 are around £2300, people seem to liveaboard but i couldn't possibly confirm it, possibly they spend a lot of time on their boats but obviously not all of it, i mean u must spend at least 8 hours a day working/shopping/not aboard so you would only be onboard 2 3rd's of the year - yes?

And plus they must take them out sometimes?

Edited September 29, 2011 by petalponk