Mooring trouble..

[Evo]

Why are these boats getting a move along notice..?? They are overstaying, they are moored illegally..there just is no argument. Sink their freaking boats and issue a court summons. I'm fed up with pussy footing around people that cheat the system, and compensating by ripping off those that dont.

[magpie patrick]

There attitude is disgusting, I didn't realise how nasty they could be. With regard to leisure moorings.. How do they define "main residence" I'm not on the boat at weekends any more and will probably not be there over winter either.

 

 

Hi dieselboat

 

"principal place of residence" is a difficult term to define as it's a matter of degree rather than fact. This is lifted straight from advice I gave someone else in a letter

 

 

The reason you can’t “live” at this moorings is because planning law controls land use as well as the built form of a development, so while living on board a boat does not change the built form of the mooring, it does change the use of the mooring, and to change the use to residential, you need planning permission.

 

What constitutes “living” is a matter of fact and degree. If you occasionally spend a night on board, say, before cruising, or while maintaining the boat then this obviously isn’t living on the boat: if you will be spending most nights on board for the foreseeable future, but have your post sent to a relative in town, whom you nip round and see occasionally, you are living on board and using the boat as a primary residence. Where the line is between these is a big grey area, and will depend on a number of factors.

 

However, I would contend that anyone who had another address, to which correspondence was sent, and regularly spent the night at that address would not be living on their boat full time, even if they were at their boat more than half the time. It may be that they have “stuff” at home rather than on the boat, for example, they may only keep a limited supply of clothes on the boat, they may have a laptop but not a full home office, or frozen food may be kept at home. In other words, the correspondence address also has a practical function as a home: it could even be that their partner is at home but part of the time they themselves are not.

 

To determine residency, the planning authority will look at factors like this as well as the length of time spent on the boat

 

So to some extent depends on where you are when you are not on board. That said, if you are frequently not on board (and I think weekends and several weeks at a time would be "frequently") and don't have your post sent to the mooring then even if you don't go to the same place most weekends then you are not likely to be noticed. Go a bit further, when you are on board, every now and then leave the mooring for two weeks, you may be living on board but not you are not at the mooring for those weeks

Edited August 16, 2011 by magpie patrick

[madcat]

Good advice from Magpie Patrick as always and what I would do if I was in the same situation. Please ignore the ranty people on here who would curl up and die rather than be constructive. No amount of pointless vitriol on an internet forum is going to change anything but somehow they never noticed/realised so they carry on with the same old same old. Some people need to realise that having a limited budget is not a crime.

 

Good luck finding a suitable mooring , madcat

[onthecut]

With the exception of overstaying on limited visitor moorings in popular spots, I really fail to understand the frothing at the mouth response to those who, pretty harmlessly by and large, stay in a limited locality. As many marina patrons tend to be out and about for just a very few weeks in the year, does it really matter so much if we see someone who chooses to be on the system full time, in the short period we are out ? If I choose to pay extra to put my boat in a boat park facility, that's my choice and my convenience -- no different to the choice between parking my taxed car on the road for free (I know, dream on, depending where you live !) or opting for a paid car park. I think it is the boats that make the canals come alive and particularly off season they would be a pretty dead location left to marina based boaters.

 

Mike.

[Dieselboat]

Why are these boats getting a move along notice..?? They are overstaying, they are moored illegally..there just is no argument. Sink their freaking boats and issue a court summons. I'm fed up with pussy footing around people that cheat the system, and compensating by ripping off those that dont.

 

Funny how there is never a mention about those who do ''live a board'' on leisure moorings and those who took over a mooring in the previous owners name and continue to do so for years after??? I could reem off at least 20 people who do! Is that not ''illegal''? Not to mention the corruption that goes on inside BW... the rant could go on and on... relax folks.. there are so many things we could get angry about. There are far more important things going on in the world right now.

 

Hi dieselboat

 

"principal place of residence" is a difficult term to define as it's a matter of degree rather than fact. This is lifted straight from advice I gave someone else in a letter

 

 

The reason you can’t “live” at this moorings is because planning law controls land use as well as the built form of a development, so while living on board a boat does not change the built form of the mooring, it does change the use of the mooring, and to change the use to residential, you need planning permission.

 

What constitutes “living” is a matter of fact and degree. If you occasionally spend a night on board, say, before cruising, or while maintaining the boat then this obviously isn’t living on the boat: if you will be spending most nights on board for the foreseeable future, but have your post sent to a relative in town, whom you nip round and see occasionally, you are living on board and using the boat as a primary residence. Where the line is between these is a big grey area, and will depend on a number of factors.

 

However, I would contend that anyone who had another address, to which correspondence was sent, and regularly spent the night at that address would not be living on their boat full time, even if they were at their boat more than half the time. It may be that they have “stuff” at home rather than on the boat, for example, they may only keep a limited supply of clothes on the boat, they may have a laptop but not a full home office, or frozen food may be kept at home. In other words, the correspondence address also has a practical function as a home: it could even be that their partner is at home but part of the time they themselves are not.

 

To determine residency, the planning authority will look at factors like this as well as the length of time spent on the boat

 

So to some extent depends on where you are when you are not on board. That said, if you are frequently not on board (and I think weekends and several weeks at a time would be "frequently") and don't have your post sent to the mooring then even if you don't go to the same place most weekends then you are not likely to be noticed. Go a bit further, when you are on board, every now and then leave the mooring for two weeks, you may be living on board but not you are not at the mooring for those weeks

 

Thank you very much!! great advice ! Better a shade of grey than totally black lol. Ive got alot of phone calls and searching to do but the more i no the easier it will be. In the meantime i shall keep moving and eat apple and blackberry pie Bless you and thank you again.

 

Good advice from Magpie Patrick as always and what I would do if I was in the same situation. Please ignore the ranty people on here who would curl up and die rather than be constructive. No amount of pointless vitriol on an internet forum is going to change anything but somehow they never noticed/realised so they carry on with the same old same old. Some people need to realise that having a limited budget is not a crime.

 

Good luck finding a suitable mooring , madcat

 

Hahahaha, its been entertaining reading ! But over all the good folk out weight the bad so thanks to everyone who gave positive advice. I will find one!

Cheers!

[carlt]

But over all the good folk out weight the bad

That's because good folk eat too much and don't exercise.

[Dieselboat]

With the exception of overstaying on limited visitor moorings in popular spots, I really fail to understand the frothing at the mouth response to those who, pretty harmlessly by and large, stay in a limited locality. As many marina patrons tend to be out and about for just a very few weeks in the year, does it really matter so much if we see someone who chooses to be on the system full time, in the short period we are out ? If I choose to pay extra to put my boat in a boat park facility, that's my choice and my convenience -- no different to the choice between parking my taxed car on the road for free (I know, dream on, depending where you live !) or opting for a paid car park. I think it is the boats that make the canals come alive and particularly off season they would be a pretty dead location left to marina based boaters.

 

Mike.

 

People only get upset during the holiday season, during the winter months there is practically no one else cruising. Not to mention wardens.. It seems the ones who complain are the ones who want it to be an elitist click. Judging by the increase in mooring prices thats exactly where its headed. Ive been living on the canal for 9 years and every year the canal seems to turn more and more into a theme park for the privileged.

Overall from my experience the people are what makes the canal.. from all walks of life not a day goes by when i dont appreciate where i live. Its been the best years of my life!

[FadeToScarlet]

I dont understand why everyone thinks its ok to claim to be CC'ers when you clearly are not, i understand the op's circumstances have changed and it may be hard to find a mooring where he wants, but after 6 months i can see why he's being asked to move on. I personaly think its good that the overstayers are being asked to move on, not much fun to end a days cruising to find no decent moorings as they are all taken by boats that have set up home on the towpath and clearly never/rarely move, while we end up moored to a scabby piece of bank, with a 2ft gap to jump. If you need to stay in one place for work/school or whatever, you should have a mooring or go live on the land. These are not new rules, you all knew the situation when you bought your boats, and maybe you should have found your moorings first. End of rant.

 

You and dieaelboat are actually in full agreement. Both of you agree that if you can't fulfil the ToC of being a CCer, you ought to get a mooring.

 

Due to a change in her circumstances, that's exactly what she's trying to do.

 

You both believe the same things, that CMing if you can't truly CC is bad.

[Dieselboat]

That's because good folk eat too much and don't exercise.

 

How about those who DO exercise but overeat? ive not stayed a size 10 by sitting on my bum you know!

[P R]

Thank you Smelly!

 

And im a SHE not a HE...

 

Yes i have seen the auctions on waterscape.. i was actually bidding on one last week then it was withdrawn!!!! So im livid!! Apparently they set the price too low... will have to wait for it to come back on now. The agenda 21 mooring is far too high for me so thats a no go, its well over £2000 now and the auction hasnt ended yet. My budget is £1,500.

 

And for all you trolls.. i have moved on and i continue to do so as i am now fiancially secure again, i want a mooring and have the money however its limited. Im purely asking for some tips on how the mooring systems work and some pleasent conversation with other boaters which have been or are in the same situation. How dare you judge me, you dont no me and never will. I will not reply again to anyone who spouts ignorance and lack good manners.

Dieselboat, sorry for refering to you as a HE! i did not wish to cause you offence by that or any of my other comments. You are correct i do not know you, but by posting on an open forum you invite others to form opinions about you and your views based on what you write. At no point in your op did you say that you had been unfairly singled out, or that B.W. were wrong and you do in fact meet the CCing requirements, so i assumed that you do not, if that is not correct then correct me! I perhaps should have said that my comments are not aimed just at you but anyone who breaks the rules and also at some of the other posts in the thread that seemed to be saying just go and break the rule somewhere else, others moaning that it was happening everywhere and another saying to get a lesure mooring and use it as residential as not as bad a rule to break. I find all of this unacceptable. I hope you are sucessfull in your quest for an acceptable mooring and if your search area increases to include the northern section of the oxford, i know some very helpfull people in the rugby area with private moorings who may be able to help.

 

They are starting the clearing of moorings for the Olympics I believe.

 

 

 

Should have kept reading the thread!!!

 

 

 

Ah some original thinking and prejudice.

Is it prejudice to expect poeple to abide by the rules?

Edited August 19, 2011 by P R

[sebrof]

Why are these boats getting a move along notice..?? They are overstaying, they are moored illegally..there just is no argument. Sink their freaking boats and issue a court summons. I'm fed up with pussy footing around people that cheat the system, and compensating by ripping off those that dont.

 

Don't be so soft, mate.

 

Hang, draw, and quarter them. It's the only way.

 

And by the way, it's a great pleasure, nay, it's a privilege, to meet somebody who is obviously perfect, and has never broken a rule in his life. Well done, Sir!

Edited August 22, 2011 by sebrof

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

Is it prejudice to expect poeple to abide by the rules?

 

It is when you do not know if they are obeying the rules and just assume they are not.

[Tim]

Why are these boats getting a move along notice..?? They are overstaying, they are moored illegally..there just is no argument. Sink their freaking boats and issue a court summons. I'm fed up with pussy footing around people that cheat the system, and compensating by ripping off those that dont.

 

 

Don't be so soft, mate.

 

Hand, draw, and quarter them. It's the only way.

 

And by the way, it's a great pleasure, nay, it's a privilege, to meet somebody who is obviously perfect, and has never broken a rule in his life. Well done, Sir!

 

Too harsh. Tar and feathers followed by a keel hauling would be sufficient!!

[Duchess Omnium]

...and also at some of the other posts in the thread that seemed to be saying just go and break the rule somewhere else, others moaning that it was happening everywhere and another saying to get a lesure mooring and use it as residential as not as bad a rule to break. I find all of this unacceptable.

 

Well, I guess I am the one who said it was okay to use a leisure mooring as residential, and I mostly stand by that. I don't think there is very clear guidance about what constitutes "residential" anyway, other than having no other primary address (nothing to do with where you live). Anyway, I say again, speaking as someone who sometimes is away for several months at a time, I think it is really useful to have residential boats keeping an eye on things. The distinction between residential and leisure along the canals is mostly plain silly. Liveaboards fulfill a really valuable role and BW quite rightly does not enforce the distinction in many cases.

[Smelly]

I don't think there is very clear guidance about what constitutes "residential" anyway, other than having no other primary address (nothing to do with where you live).

 

The distinction between residential and leisure along the canals is mostly plain silly. Liveaboards fulfill a really valuable role and BW quite rightly does not enforce the distinction in many cases.

 

 

There's loads of case law around regarding what might constitute "normally resident" & "sole or main occupancy"; much as there is law telling us that unless action is taken to prohibit residential use of a particular plot it is not particularly norty so to do. There's probably laws about making up rules that fit one's own special version of how things should be then spouting about them on the interweb somewhere as well...

 

I like Liveaboard boats as well because I've got one

Edited August 23, 2011 by Smelly

[Duchess Omnium]

There's loads of case law around regarding what might constitute "normally resident" & "sole or main occupancy"; much as there is law telling us that unless action is taken to prohibit residential use of a particular plot it is not particularly norty so to do. There's probably laws about making up rules that fit one's own special version of how things should be then spouting about them on the interweb somewhere as well...

 

I like Liveaboard boats as well because I've got one

Well, I haven't studied the case law, but I was sure given a lot of tosh when I asked the local BW warden what constituted "living aboard". Seems to me that the rules are being made up as they go along and the inter web is as good a place as any to spout about it.

 

At my previous mooring I lived on the boat, though it was a leisure mooring. The BW guy who replaced our local Moorings Warden occasionally dropped in for a cup of coffee and always stopped for a chat. He had no problem with any of the people living there, including me. If it came to court, I suppose It could have gone either way -- I have a house, sometimes I am gone for months at a time, but I think of my boat as my home.

 

And that's my point, partly. I expect given what the OP said about her circumstances she could occupy a "leisure" mooring with no problem.

 

My broader poit was t hat the distinction is fuzzy at best and that people who bend the rules on leisure moorings perform a valuable service. I'm not really sure what your point was...

[Smelly]

I'm not really sure what your point was...

 

It was that we agree!

[P R]

It is when you do not know if they are obeying the rules and just assume they are not.

Did you read the whole post or just that part?