Navigation lights

[Keeping Up]

The 1908 bye-laws for navigation on the Lee required proper lights, and the 1965 BW bye-laws specifically stated that they did not apply on the Lee and Stort navigations.

 

However the 1966 amendment to the BW bye laws specifically repealed the 1908 Lee bye-laws and replaced them with the 1965 BW bye-laws.

 

On that basis I do not believe that navigation lights are needed by narrowboats on the L&S.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Keeping Up

[Robin2]

I think you are over exaggerating the difficulty of identifying nav lights against shore lights and certainly buoy lights are not as difficult to see as you suggest.

 

Strobes are undoubtedly good at attracting attention. The one thing they don't do is show aspect which is why the existing lights are as they are (and indeed why aircraft also show sidelights.) Some times the "experts" might just get it right

 

Howard

 

I am not exaggerating - I am speaking from experience with a sailboat.

 

Yet another "flat earther" who seems unprepared to consider a change in the rules to take advantage of new technology.

 

I wonder how many times commercial aircraft avoid each other solely due to identifying nav lights? Indeed I wonder how often they would even see each other at night were it not for the strobes.

 

The other technology for helping to avoid big ships is an AIS receiver which can see around corners but it would be hard to justify one on a narrowboat.

[Radiomariner]

I am trying to imagine the Dover Strait where there is nearly always at least 25 vessels within 6 miles, (I counted 52 one time with the radar on the 6 mile range) all with strobe lights. Bit of a nightmare I think, I personally have never had difficulty identifying nav lights even on passenger boats that are often lit up like christmas trees. Mind you I have never been out there where my vision is obscured by a combination of flapping sail, and the next wave towering above me!

The trouble with new technology and the marine environment is that world wide legislation for any new device or idea takes so long the idea or device is "Old Hat" before it is introduced, Look for instance at the requirements introduced a couple of years ago for LED navigation lighting overtaken by recent technology I believe.

 

Edited for typo

Edited July 10, 2011 by Radiomariner

[howardang]

I am not exaggerating - I am speaking from experience with a sailboat.

 

Yet another "flat earther" who seems unprepared to consider a change in the rules to take advantage of new technology.

 

I wonder how many times commercial aircraft avoid each other solely due to identifying nav lights? Indeed I wonder how often they would even see each other at night were it not for the strobes.

 

The other technology for helping to avoid big ships is an AIS receiver which can see around corners but it would be hard to justify one on a narrowboat.

I suspect your comments are a good example of " a little knowledge......". Many thousands of seafarers have managed perfectly adequately when identifying nav lights against shore lights, and when identifying buoyage lights, and Radio Mariner has beaten me to it with his comments about strobe lights which are my thoughts exactly. If every vessel in restricted waters relied primarily on the use of strobe lights for collision avoidance there would, in my view, be an increased risk of accidents, not less.

 

I'm definately no flat earther; I have no problem with embracing new technology when it is appropriate, but I am also aware of throwing babies out with the bathwater! As far as AIS is concerned, of course it would be OTT to carry on narrowboats, and as for its use as an anti collision aid, I am sure, as an experienced sailor, you are aware of the cautions which are in place about relying on it (and also VHF) rather than the existing colregs.

 

 

Howard

[bizzard]

I suspect your comments are a good example of " a little knowledge......". Many thousands of seafarers have managed perfectly adequately when identifying nav lights against shore lights, and when identifying buoyage lights, and Radio Mariner has beaten me to it with his comments about strobe lights which are my thoughts exactly. If every vessel in restricted waters relied primarily on the use of strobe lights for collision avoidance there would, in my view, be an increased risk of accidents, not less.

 

I'm definately no flat earther; I have no problem with embracing new technology when it is appropriate, but I am also aware of throwing babies out with the bathwater! As far as AIS is concerned, of course it would be OTT to carry on narrowboats, and as for its use as an anti collision aid, I am sure, as an experienced sailor, you are aware of the cautions which are in place about relying on it (and also VHF) rather than the existing colregs.

 

 

Howard

Wow i've certainly stirred up something here .everyones buzzing. oil nav lights are quite charming. bizzard

[blackrose]

As you have them fitted they are very nice red and green lights but they are not acting as navigation lights. They should be visible 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on their respective sides.

 

One way round it would be to mount them on a detachable bracket above the level of the cratch or on a small detachable mast.

 

Howard

 

This is what I made. I didn't want to put holes through sides of the boat and there is no 12v feed inside the cabin at the front. The mast is made of aluminium tube and the lights take power from the bow thruster batteries.

 

 

If it hits something the mast folds back onto a rubber cushion at the top (an offcut of D section fender rubber). It can also be setup and stored in this position until dusk when it can simply be erected. A bungee cord holds it in the vertical position. If it is pushed down it doesn't spring back up but it probably could be made to. In this photo the power cable isn't connected - it goes to the other end of a lawnmower connector under the ruim of the roof.

 

 

It fully detaches from the brass wheelhouse hinge which is mounted on a piece of hardwood marineflexed to the roof.

 

 

I know that the nav lights aren't technically the right size for my boat, but as someone has already said, we do what we can to make ourselves safe within the limitations of the structure of our boats. On the Thames all sorts of boats large and small have their nav lights positioned where it's practical and convenient. If one wishes to the comply with the Colregs in their entirity then you might even need radar reflectors.

Edited July 10, 2011 by blackrose

[Chalky]

I've got nav lights fitted to either side of the cabin, the bow and stern lights are waiting fitting. The whole lot are switched by Smart FETS run off a pic microprocessor. This allows me to sense if there are any circuit faults and has software so I can turn off the stern light if the tunnel light is selected. Total over kill for control, but I'd got some smart FETs as engineering samples and wanted to play with them!

[Robin2]

I suspect your comments are a good example of " a little knowledge......". Many thousands of seafarers have managed perfectly adequately when identifying nav lights against shore lights, and when identifying buoyage lights, and Radio Mariner has beaten me to it with his comments about strobe lights which are my thoughts exactly. If every vessel in restricted waters relied primarily on the use of strobe lights for collision avoidance there would, in my view, be an increased risk of accidents, not less.

 

I'm definately no flat earther; I have no problem with embracing new technology when it is appropriate, but I am also aware of throwing babies out with the bathwater! As far as AIS is concerned, of course it would be OTT to carry on narrowboats, and as for its use as an anti collision aid, I am sure, as an experienced sailor, you are aware of the cautions which are in place about relying on it (and also VHF) rather than the existing colregs.

 

 

Howard

 

Many millions of people survived quite well before electricity was harnessed - but you are not (I suspect) recommending a return to those times.

 

The fact that I am here surely means that I did manage to figure out the lights. But that does not detract from the desirability of making the moving objects easier to detect.

 

I can't imagine how 52 strobe lights in the English channel would cause any confusion. Each one would say "Hi, there's a ship here" - which is all its meant to do. But the real time when they have value is in an otherwise empty sea where it would be easy to miss a ship at the horizon which could run you down before you had safely crossed its path. After you have spotted the ship you can try to pick out the nav lights at your leisure.

 

Incidently, whatever about spotting the single red or green light on the side of a ship, the white steaming lights are even more easily confused by the domestic lights.

 

Let's be realistic. Unless there was very thick fog you could easily spot a car ferry or other large ship just by its domestic lighting.

 

What I am worried about is whether they can see me - low down on the water where they won't be expecting me, where radar might not pick me out from the clutter of waves and when their lookout is tired or lazy.

[bizzard]

From what I've read of late no one moves very much on the Lee anyway. Breaking nav light regs is the least of their transgressions.

Keep going folks.What about nice traditional oil nav lights.

They're prone to blow out in a gale though, so i've read.

Magnetic ones with dry batteries, U2's are available,easy to put these in a good position.

Regards bizzard.