Another company goes under.

[nichimyo]

Yes, even their web site is dead now.

[Gary Peacock]

Well it's all official now the administrator was appointed on Monday and the site needs to be cleared by mid next week. (Very quick considering the time that this dragged on at an unofficial level)

 

We are going to help complete five or six boats here and the owners had a "free for all" yesterday trying to find the missing items associated with their boats. (Quite a bit was recovered.)

 

There are still a number of part built hulls whose owners might not be aware of the proceedings but it is probably too late to do too much for them now.

 

The remaining assets will be disposed of by Auction on Tuesday afternoon.

 

The next question could well be if the goods owners paid for were actually owned by the boat builder to sell to them?

 

Considering the amount the owners have lost already I would suggest the suppliers concerned would be best to carefully consider their approach in dealing with this! Not all publicity is good publicity.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Gary Peacock

[Gary Peacock]

If anybody likes auctions this is a nice boat and it could go cheap!

 

http://www.eddisons.com/plant_machinery/boat

 

It didn't belong to a customer either!

[Roy n paula]

yes the boat did go cheap,along with all the other gear that was sold off,I didnt go to buy anything, so you may be asking ,why was I there,well I`m one of the 14 boat ,sorry , 14 owners of bits of boat that were being built up at Heron,most of us went there to salvage what we could,and to see that what we had paid for wasn`t in the auction,we havn`t got what we are owed and we are all out of pocket for at least £30k,my advice always check that the builder is a member of BMI,try to get away from stage payments,and dont believe what you are being told about the build stage of your boat.We have now got to fork out on crane/forklift/lorry hire to remove our boats,but at this moment in time not the parts we put to one side as the administraters will not release them,even though we have paid heron for the parts.Thankfully Gary Peacock from Ledgardbridge is helping some of us out and we may yet get our boats on the water before next years winter stoppages,oh did I mention that this was to be a liverboard for me and my partner Paula,unlike a certain person allegedly sunning themselves in France.

just as a thought,perhaps in future there could be a penalty clause wrote into the contract,reducing the cost for every month that the builder goes over the agreed finnish date.

Edited March 29, 2006 by Roy n paula

[Gary Peacock]

Well that's Heron all over and done with we have just moved the last of the boats and the site is cleared ready for a new tenant.

 

Customers loses are probably around the £250K+ region plus there are quite a lot of suppliers who lost out too.

 

It looks like every customer at least got an hull although a number with bare hulls had actually made 3rd payments and expected far more.

 

Anyway I'm having a rest now it hasn't been the most pleasant two weeks I have ever had trying to help clear up the mess!

 

Hopefully all the owners can now at least start to make plans to get their boats completed. It's been a very distressing experience for them all with many hours spent sat in a cold car park with no news being made available.

 

I feel everybody on this forum will offer their support and advice if help is needed by them in the months ahead.

[onionbargee]

And they had " v Formed welding " too !

 

thats an old post i started up.

[Mick and Pauline]

Well members I would like to add to Roy and Paula's comments on the Heron collapse, I have come through the worst three weeks of my life and had it not been for this forum I would not have known of the collapse. The administrator made contact finally on the 22nd March & again on the 27th March, when they told me I had four days to remove my half completed boat but no mention of the public auction to take place the next day.

It was only through contact with other effected Heron Boat owners sat the that cold Yorkshire car park that info was passed to all the owners involved. To have to guard your belongings through a public auction stopping people picking over your things is not good and then to be told if you removed items, the police would be called, was not good. On Thursday, 30th March with the help of Emley Cranes plus Gary & his lads from Ledgard Bridge we rescued nine narrowboats including launching two boats onto the water from the clutch's of the administrators.

The BMF need to restore confidence in the British boat building industry before it goes the same way the British car making industry went.

A member of the Heron Surviors Club (Membership closed).

[bottle]

Mick and Pauline

 

Nothing I say will ease the trauma that you have been through but I wish you well and good luck in getting the boat finished.

[Mick and Pauline]

Hi,

It is emerging from this boatbuilder collapse that the biggest single creditor loss is to a well known sponsor of a Honda UK Superbike Racing team and they have plant equipment dealings in the UK. The next biggest losses are to the boat owners who have now been given creditor's rights and will be invited to the creditors meeting.

For more info on this story see the Yorkshire Post website for an article that was printed today.

The boat shown in their photo is Roy and Paula's boat, the keep off sign on the bow was to prevent boarders during the public auction last week.

 

I am now looking forward to the creditors meeting to able to ask a few relevent questions to certain gentleman, if he returns from his french residense.

 

Mick and Pauline.

(Heron Survivors Club).

[Bones]

Hi,

It is emerging from this boatbuilder collapse that the biggest single creditor loss is to a well known sponsor of a Honda UK Superbike Racing team and they have plant equipment dealings in the UK. The next biggest losses are to the boat owners who have now been given creditor's rights and will be invited to the creditors meeting.

For more info on this story see the Yorkshire Post website for an article that was printed today.

The boat shown in their photo is Roy and Paula's boat, the keep off sign on the bow was to prevent boarders during the public auction last week.

 

I am now looking forward to the creditors meeting to able to ask a few relevent questions to certain gentleman, if he returns from his french residense.

 

Mick and Pauline.

(Heron Survivors Club).

 

can you post the link - I can't find the article

[Twitch]

Hopefully this works!

 

YPN

[Bones]

Hopefully this works!

 

YPN

 

it does. thanks.

[nutmeg]

My wife and I only found out about the demise of Heron two days ago on receipt of our copy of Canal Boat.

 

We were particularly surprised to see that the initial closure took place on 24th February 2006 as we visited their premises the same day in the morning when we were made most welcome and business on the face of it was being carried on as normal, we watched a boat being launched and were invited by the new boat’s owners to their celebration in the office.

 

We had previously decided to have a boat built by Heron, having been impressed by a second hand boat we saw at Braunston earlier in the year. We had visited their premises in November 2005 and were then pleased with the quality of their workmanship and the helpful attitude of the staff. Based upon this and other enquiries we made we entered into an agreement with Heron to build a boat to commence in November 2006. We paid our holding deposit of £500 which of course we have now lost but we feel so sorry for those other customers who have lost much more and have had to suffer all the trauma revealed in earlier postings.

 

We are new to the boating world and this was to be our first boat. We now feel most unsure what to do next. We thought we had taken appropriate steps before committing to the purchase, having viewed other boats built by Heron, visited their site, searched the internet for information, spoken to other owners (The boat we saw being launched on 24 Feb was the second boat the nice couple had purchased from Heron and they seemed very happy). We had discussed with Heron their situation and had received all the plausible answers like ‘we put a plate in the bottom of the boat with your contract number on it so that it can be easily identified as yours if we should go out of business.’ We had signed a BMIF agreement as recommended which, as it turns out, is as valuable as the paper it was written on.

 

We would still like to have a boat built to our own specification but are now very wary of committing to any builder. I have no doubt there are many good reliable boat builders but how can a prospective purchaser know which one will be safe to use. I would certainly not now agree to any situation where I would be paying for work not yet done, as seems to have been the problem experienced by other Heron customers.

 

It seems to me that until the industry gets it’s act together and introduces a scheme to provide a safeguard for customers of boat builders, like exists in the residential property industry (i.e. NHBC/Zurich) then the whole situation is like a minefield. This sort of news must be very harmful to the boat building industry and perhaps they will need to do something collectively in order to give prospective customers some confidence.

 

Perhaps we will be better served by buying a boat already built. At least that way, subject to a good survey, you can see what you are buying.

 

 

PS This is my first post. Sorry it has gone on a bit.

[Jon]

Hi nutmeg, welcome to the forum.

 

I think possibly the first thing to remember is that only the problematic boat builders normally make the news, so that for every new boat ordered, only a small fraction get cancelled.

 

However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful. What kind of boat do you want (style/length) and do you have any specific location requirements (ie, close to home to see build taking place?) Perhaps other could suggest builders they have used/can recommend?

 

Jon

[Mick and Pauline]

Hi Nutmeg,

What can I say, you were very lucky and if you check your bank statements, you may find that your cheque for the build slot has not gone the same way as Roy n Paula's (they are on this site) and mine.

My son paid a visit to the home of the Heron owner and his wife did say some of the recent cheques had not been cashed.

Heron's paid off all their staff on the 28th February and a week later even the owner was locked out when the landlord of the premises changed all the locks until he had been paid rent arrears. He is still waiting, along with the other ten boat owners and suppilies, waiting for the administrators to tell us how much in pound will be paid out ???

 

Please take time and read the threads in this forum, you will find them of use to you.

Do not be put off by what happened to me, take your time, don't be rushed.

The good side from my mishap is I have found eight new friends (boat owners ex Heron's).

 

Mick & Pauline.

[Maffi]

Hi Nutmeg

 

Sorry you lost some money over the Heron fiasco, luckily not too much.

 

There have been a few boat yards go down the Swanee in the last two years and it doesn't bode well for those of us who are having or planning to have a boat built.

 

I looked around for some time on the net to see who I liked. I was determined to have my boat built, but in the current turmoil who should I ask? I visited a few yards last year while on vacation, saw some very lovely boats and even thought about buying a S/H one from Braid bar.

 

However Ledgard Bridge had the courage to put a web cam up on the net when building a wide beam last year and that said a lot to me. I decided that anyone who was prepared to put his reputation on the line and have all the world view the building process was OK by me.

 

Mine is the boat currently being built on line at Ledgard Bridge (click) This is good for me because I am presently living in Riyadh Saudi Arabia and can't get home, and of course it's good advertising for the yard.

 

Gary Peacock is a member of this forum and part owns Ledgard Bridge, which is just across the river from Heron. He has been instrumental in helping 5 Heron owners get their boats away from Heron and they are now awaiting financing before he starts work on them.

 

He has given me good advice from the outset and stopped me from making some silly design mistakes. So far, even though the steel was several weeks late in arriving, the boat is still on course to finish on time.

 

If you still want to have a boat built I would respectfully suggest you to at least visit the yard.

 

I hope you find what you are looking for, and soon.

Edited April 15, 2006 by Maffi

[Roy n paula]

Hi Nutmeg,you seem to of escaped from this one,if our advice is any good,after being hoodwinked by Heron,both me and Paula would of gone for a builder closer to home,we were living in Cornwall when we first ordered the boat,make sure you visit the site at every chance ,and dont part with any money untill you have inspected the yard,and viewed the boat. After visiting Gary we now wish we had placed an order with him,as his Birmingham Box barge is gorgous. Dont be put off boating,just be very cautious,do your home work,i.e are they BMF registered,what are the hidden costs,and is the price quoted the final price. we have our boat,although we are many thousands down,and we will be on the water,cruising around the system, the boat will not be finished as quickly as we hoped,but we have got a lot of new friends

 

 

 

 

member of the Heron Survivors club

[Mick and Pauline]

Hi Nutmeg,

 

Can you contact me (email through Forum), I need to talk to you about your build slot payment to Heron's.

Please help, it is very important.

 

Mick & Pauline.

(Heron Survivors Club)

[anhar]

Hello nutmeg

 

...We would still like to have a boat built to our own specification but are now very wary of committing to any builder. I have no doubt there are many good reliable boat builders but how can a prospective purchaser know which one will be safe to use. I would certainly not now agree to any situation where I would be paying for work not yet done, as seems to have been the problem experienced by other Heron customers...

I've been looking for a boat for some time and have come to the conclusion that there is no way of knowing who is safe. As you say, Heron on the face of it appeared to be fine, I considered them myself.

 

At present, there is no reliable method of avoiding the builder going bust and the customer consequently losing money in a situation where stage payments are required - and just about all builders require stage payments. I've found only one who doesn't, Ken Yates. This firm asks only for a 10% deposit, the whole balance being payable on delivery. If the deposit is paid by credit card, there is no risk to the buyer if the firm goes bust. This is the fairest and safest method offered by any builder around. However they sell only a very limited range of lower priced production boats, not bespoke jobs.

 

Whilst I agree with talking to existing owners of a builder's boats, note that this can only give you reassurance on the quality of the build and the service, not on the financial viability of the firm.

 

As Jon points out, only a small number of builders go broke each year but that is not really much help to those of us looking to spend the large sum of money that boats cost. We don't want to gamble on that and end up with one of the few failures and lose possibly a very large amount. The fact is that there are too many builders chasing too few buyers so further failures are almost inevitable in my opinion.

 

The whole thing is extremely worrying and, apart from Ken Yates, the only fully reliable answer is not to have a bespoke boat built but as you suggest, to buy a very recent second hand craft and compromise on the layout because you probably won't find exactly what you want. I have noticed that there are quite a few very recent boats for sale with the brokers, no more than a year or two old and have been to see several. Often these have hardly been used and are probably from people who thought they'd like canalling but quickly discovered that it isn't always as wonderful as they thought or possibly elderly people who fell ill.

 

regards

Steve

Edited April 16, 2006 by anhar

[Alec Gatherer]

There's another aspect of this. I would love to recommend the firm who built my shell (they've been quietly turning boats out for 40+ yrs)- but wouldn't one feel a total arse if one suggested a firm which then went nipples up! So silence is probably the best counsel; not very helpful for the prospective buyer.

If you were considering my builder (John Pinder) and wanted my opinion of his firm (which would be a good one) I would be pleased to enter into correspondence; but to go as far as actually suggesting him, or any builder, would be to take on a feeling of responsibility for the eventual outcome, good or bad.

I know many people who are most happy with their Heron boats, and who would probably have recommended them!

[nutmeg]

Thanks everyone for the comments and advice.

 

Still not sure what difference it would have made if Heron had been BMF registered? As we are starting again we propose to be very cautious and will consider all options.

 

Will email Mick and Pauline through the forum as requested.

[Richard Bustens]

Notmeg . How did you pay he deposit? if you paid cheque on the day they went under it should not have been cashed and in fact the money would not have been in there bank for a few days , that means you will get it back as the reciever is acting ilegally.

[Mick and Pauline]

Notmeg . How did you pay he deposit? if you paid cheque on the day they went under it should not have been cashed and in fact the money would not have been in there bank for a few days , that means you will get it back as the reciever is acting ilegally.

 

Hi Richard & Nutmeg,

 

The info we have, is that the Heron cheques taken during the last weeks of the Heron operation did not get to the bank. They were still at the home in Wakefield of the Heron owner on the 28th March, a month after the collapse and were not handed over to Mazars of Leeds, the administrators. So it is possible that one of these cheques is Nutmeg's, if so, he could cancel it at his bank a.s.a.p.

 

Mick & Pauline.

[nutmeg]

Paid by cheque in January and unfortunately it cleared my bank in a few days. They had an offer of a 'free' upgrade to sprayfoam insulation, instead of rockwool, for orders placed in January. I should have realised nothing is for free.

[anhar]

Thanks everyone for the comments and advice.

 

Still not sure what difference it would have made if Heron had been BMF registered? As we are starting again we propose to be very cautious and will consider all options...

Hello Nutmeg

 

You are right, membership of the BMF and/or CBBA does not guarantee that a buyer won't lose money if the builder fails. Be nice if these organisations did operate some sort of guarantee scheme but they do not. Thus it is perhaps more of an emotional comfort to buyers in that membership may mean that the firm is sounder than those who are not members, but there is no real assurance that this is the case. Ken Yates for example whom I mentioned earlier, are not members of these bodies yet have many satisfied customers as well as the safest purchase method of all. (I'm not connected with KY by the way, just have them on my list of potential suppliers with whom I'd be prepared to do business)

 

Use of BMF members does bring with it the BMF contract which gives possession of the part built boat to the buyer provided all stage payments have been met. You'd almost certainly still lose some money and experience a lot of trouble in a failure but at least you'd have a part built boat so that you can find another firm to complete it. However even this safeguard can fail in a situation where your builder is a fitter using bought in shells - a common situation. If the shell builder has not been paid when the fitter goes bust and the contract between them uses "reservation of title" which means the shell builder retains ownership until they are paid, then you as the buyer will lose everything because you don't even own the part complete boat, despite the fact that the BMF contract says that you do.

 

regards

Steve