Gas Pipe

[Moley]

Sorry, just a quickie, my BSS guide pdf is on my Mac at work and I can't be bothered to download it again at home.

 

My gas installation's going to be dead simple. Straight run along starboard gunwhale to a T, on to cooker, branch to Paloma on port.

 

Am I best crossing under the floor or over inside the ceiling, or doesn't it make a blind bit of difference?

 

Thanks,

Ade.

[Guest]

Sorry, just a quickie, my BSS guide pdf is on my Mac at work and I can't be bothered to download it again at home.

 

My gas installation's going to be dead simple. Straight run along starboard gunwhale to a T, on to cooker, branch to Paloma on port.

 

Am I best crossing under the floor or over inside the ceiling, or doesn't it make a blind bit of difference?

 

Thanks,

Ade.

I could be wrong as the goalposts have moved again, but I don't think you can run the pipes anywhere if they are not visible. I had to argue my case because the kitchen worktop effectively boxed in the pipe under the gunwhale for a metre or so. I managed to get away with it, but next time who knows? Someone else hopefully will be more certain on this.

[Liam]

I'm going through the fit out stage.. I have been for 2 years now lol! anyway..

 

When I come to running the gas and water pipes in the boat, I'm going to put them on the outside. If I ever have any problems with either of them, I'll only have to concentrate on the one thing, and not pulling the boat to bits trying to get at the prob.

[John Orentas]

I think the wording has changed in the last few years, the piping has now got to be 'Accessible'. Which means removable covers are permitted.

[ChrisPy]

BSS 7.8.6 best practice: we recommend following industry best practice and keep the pipework as high as possible.

[lymmranger]

For my sake I hope so!

 

changed my Gas 3 times now I am NOT doing it a fourth time

[Moley]

the piping has now got to be 'Accessible'. Which means removable covers are permitted.

I'm planning to run below gunwhales and will have an easily removable cover strip.

In any case, the boat's 20+, so who's to say when the gas was installed?

 

keep the pipework as high as possible.

So that's over the ceiling, leaving a removable cover strip?

[Guest]

I'm planning to run below gunwhales and will have an easily removable cover strip.

In any case, the boat's 20+, so who's to say when the gas was installed?

So that's over the ceiling, leaving a removable cover strip?

I would tend to think that overhead is the best way, you don't want pipes at bilge level ideally, and it seems that the pipe has to be accessible, but I have only had a quick scan at the "new" BSC. It would seem sensible to incorporate a removable strip/cover arrangement. Also you need some method of clipping the pipe.

[Moley]

I would tend to think that overhead is the best way, you don't want pipes at bilge level ideally

Thanks folks, I don't particularly want anything at bilge level (certainly not any plumbing after the nightmare I've had cleaning the inside of the base plates), so over the top it is then.

 

Thanks again,

Ade.

[stuart]

I think the BSS also stated that runs must be as short as possible, in a single length of pipe - ie. minimal joins

[Cafnod]

"My gas installation's going to be dead simple. Straight run along starboard gunwhale to a T, on to cooker, branch to Paloma on port."

 

Are they now marketing a room sealed paloma? My BSS examiner said that I could not fit one to our new build as thay are not legal on new boats as they are not room sealed.

Most miffed as I have a brand new one, bought for the old boat and never fitted.

[Moley]

ie. minimal joins

I think a single T connector's about as minimal as I can get. Surely, whether it's gas or water you're plumbing, minimal joins is just basic common sense. Is it advisable to end both branches with a tap?

 

My BSS examiner said that I could not fit one to our new build as thay are not legal on new boats as they are not room sealed.

Sorry, you've lost me.

a) - what's room sealed?

- she's an old boat.

[John Orentas]

Are they now marketing a room sealed paloma? My BSS examiner said that I could not fit one to our new build as thay are not legal on new boats as they are not room sealed.

Most miffed as I have a brand new one, bought for the old boat and never fitted.

 

 

Hi Cafnod.

 

Your examiner is wrong you can install a non room-sealed Paloma, in fact in the regulations there is a specific mention of the exception made for the Paloma and other instantaneous water heaters.

 

See part 8 Appliances, flueing & ventilation.

 

"There is one specific exception to this rule........................................."

 

I have had a Paloma in my boat for 20+ years I think they are a fantastic bit of kit, never had any significant problems. If I were you I would install yours straight away, and find an examiner who knows what he is talking about.

Edited February 21, 2006 by John Orentas

[Guest]

Hi Cafnod.

 

Your examiner is wrong you can install a non room-sealed Paloma, in fact in the regulations there is a specific mention of the exception made for the Paloma and other instantaneous water heaters.

 

See part 8 Appliances, flueing & ventilation.

 

"There is one specific exception to this rule........................................."I have had a Paloma in my boat for 20+ years I think they are a fantastic bit of kit, never had any significant problems. If I were you I would install yours straight away, and find an examiner who knows what he is talking about.

 

That is the way I understand the situation, but know of two examiners who "don't like" them. I never had any problems on last boat other than it freezing onece (my fault).

Edited February 21, 2006 by Guest

[dor]

Thanks folks, I don't particularly want anything at bilge level (certainly not any plumbing after the nightmare I've had cleaning the inside of the base plates), so over the top it is then.

.

 

Don't forget to incorporate a test point at the furthest point.

[John Orentas]

That is the way I understand the situation, but know of two examiners who "don't like" them. I never had any problems on last boat other than it freezing onece (my fault).

 

 

Some of these examiners are just 'too big for there boots'. Who cares what they don't like. A two week course and they rule the world. They are tasked to enforce the regulations as published, they don't have any discretion.

[Gary Peacock]

"My gas installation's going to be dead simple. Straight run along starboard gunwhale to a T, on to cooker, branch to Paloma on port."

 

Are they now marketing a room sealed paloma? My BSS examiner said that I could not fit one to our new build as thay are not legal on new boats as they are not room sealed.

Most miffed as I have a brand new one, bought for the old boat and never fitted.

 

I would be very careful fitting a Paloma to a new boat it is generally accepted you don't but there might be some loophole that would allow it. I don't know if it would contravene any of the RCD requirerments. (Will have a look if I get chance.)

[John Orentas]

I would be very careful fitting a Paloma to a new boat it is generally accepted you don't but there might be some loophole that would allow it. I don't know if it would contravene any of the RCD requirerments. (Will have a look if I get chance.)

 

 

Hi Gary.

 

Surely the RCD applies only to new commercial builds, take a look at the BSS regs' it is not a loophole. We have moved away from 'Generally accepted' we have documented regulations now.

Edited February 21, 2006 by John Orentas

[Guest]

Hi Gary.

 

Surely the RCD applies only to new commercial builds, take a look at the BSS regs' it is not a loophole. We have moved away from 'Generally accepted' we have documented regulations now.

Having had a quick look I understand that non-room sealed appliances are "not recommended" by the BSS. The RCD is another can of worms which I don't even try to undestand; in fact the less I know about that garbage the better!

[Gary Peacock]

Hi Gary.

 

Surely the RCD applies only to new commercial builds, take a look at the BSS regs' it is not a loophole. We have moved away from 'Generally accepted' we have documented regulations now.

 

Quite correct John fitting on an existing boat seems "OK" but the RCD from January this year applies to all new recreational boats regardless of commercial or self builder.

 

The question I have been trying to get answered is will the BSS give a certificate to a non RCD compliant new boat?

If so Joe Public could quite happily use the "five year rule" to circumnavigate any need and cost to comply with the RCD.

 

This would be good for the hull building side of the industry because concerns over RCD compliance would be alleviated for a large number of potential customers.

 

There are rumours about Insurance and Finance companies being about to jump on the RCD bandwagon too but if the above idea became common practice I feel sure they would pause for thought first.

 

If the BSS do refuse to certify a non RCD compliant boat then that will raise some more questions.

[Guest]

Quite correct John fitting on an existing boat seems "OK" but the RCD from January this year applies to all new recreational boats regardless of commercial or self builder.

 

 

 

The question I have been trying to get answered is will the BSS give a certificate to a non RCD compliant new boat?

If so Joe Public could quite happily use the "five year rule" to circumnavigate any need and cost to comply with the RCD.

 

This would be good for the hull building side of the industry because concerns over RCD compliance would be alleviated for a large number of potential customers.

 

There are rumours about Insurance and Finance companies being about to jump on the RCD bandwagon too but if the above idea became common practice I feel sure they would pause for thought first.

 

 

 

If the BSS do refuse to certify a non RCD compliant boat then that will raise some more questions.

 

I missed the one about RCD from January, another can of worms..

 

This one I have been expectingabout the RCD bandwagon, especially insuarance companies, they are all in it together you know. (I used to be paranoid but I know everyone is out for me now.)

 

I think a single T connector's about as minimal as I can get. Surely, whether it's gas or water you're plumbing, minimal joins is just basic common sense. Is it advisable to end both branches with a tap?

Sorry, you've lost me.

a) - what's room sealed?

- she's an old boat.

 

Room sealed doesn't draw air from inside cabin for combustion, it takes it from outside.

Think you are OK with Paloma on boat before 2000 but do check.

You did require a tap (shut off valve) for each appliance, I think that still applies.

Edited February 21, 2006 by Guest

[Moley]

Hang on guys, this is getting ridiculous.

 

Have now read the guide and answered my own questions about taps etc. Some of the guide seems to make sense, is it just me or is the rest of it total b****cks?

 

Now then, I thought I was OK taking a jointless length of copper pipe up and over my roofspace, but my wiring's up there too, so does 7.8.6 mean that I can't do this, but 7.8 intro says that “it is important that all parts of the gas system installation pipework can be accessed for routine checking, service and replacement” so this means I can't go under the floor either, so has it got to be surface mounted below the ceiling ?

[Guest]

Hang on guys, this is getting ridiculous.

 

Have now read the guide and answered my own questions about taps etc. Some of the guide seems to make sense, is it just me or is the rest of it total b****cks?

 

Now then, I thought I was OK taking a jointless length of copper pipe up and over my roofspace, but my wiring's up there too, so does 7.8.6 mean that I can't do this, but 7.8 intro says that “it is important that all parts of the gas system installation pipework can be accessed for routine checking, service and replacement” so this means I can't go under the floor either, so has it got to be surface mounted below the ceiling ?

this was my concern when I saw your post originally. Can you tee in elsewhere (in gas locker- past bulkhead etc) and then run up the other gunwhale to save going over or under? It is a better job long term because you will get no loss on the pipe on the other side. I think this is how I would tackle it, but then I haven't seen your boat. It is difficult to plan a job remotely!

[Moley]

Can you tee in elsewhere ... and then run up the other gunwhale to save going over or under?

Gas locker's starboard, pipe comes through bulkhead at gunwhale height, so it's logical to continue along starboard gunwhale.

 

Lighting electrics (12v) are running down the centre of the ceiling with tails off as required.

 

Port gunwhale will carry 12v electrics for water pump, fridge and other appliances.

 

Headlight cable is hidden in starboard eaves, horn ditto to port.

 

240v along port skirting.

 

How can something so simple become such a headache ?

[stuart]

I think I'd be tempted to see if you can run the pipe outside the boat from the gas locker to the opposite side of the boat - is there anywhere you could hide the pipework?

 

At least then you dont have the hassle of running the pipe over the roof space.