Private Sales

[Moorings]

After much dithering we're finally going to buy a secondhand narrowboat. We've already looked at a few through brokers but if buying privately what's the generally accepted protocol (or isn't there one)?

 

1. Make an offer subject to survey with or without a non-refundable deposit, or is it accepted that if you're paying for a lift out and survey then you must be serious?

 

2. Is there any document similar to a car registration document that gives at least some confidence that the seller actually owns the boat?

 

3. If the boat is currently securing a loan, how can you be assured the seller will pay it off with the proceeds of the sale? Or is it a case of crossing fingers......

 

We're cash buyers if that makes any difference.

 

Sorry if these seem rather naive questions, but we've saved for a long time for this and would hate it to go wrong! Thanks.

[Guest]

After much dithering we're finally going to buy a secondhand narrowboat. We've already looked at a few through brokers but if buying privately what's the generally accepted protocol (or isn't there one)?

 

1. Make an offer subject to survey with or without a non-refundable deposit, or is it accepted that if you're paying for a lift out and survey then you must be serious?

 

2. Is there any document similar to a car registration document that gives at least some confidence that the seller actually owns the boat?

 

3. If the boat is currently securing a loan, how can you be assured the seller will pay it off with the proceeds of the sale? Or is it a case of crossing fingers......

 

We're cash buyers if that makes any difference.

 

Sorry if these seem rather naive questions, but we've saved for a long time for this and would hate it to go wrong! Thanks.

 

I think a lot will depend on the individual you are buying from ref. 1.

 

Proof of ownership - look for a bill of sale (original) servicing/maintenance documentation that ties up if at all possible with the sellers address. Note though - If the boat is on secured finance such as a marine mortgage any original copies of bills of sale/deeds will be held by the finance company.

 

Just a thought - Ref. 3 - ask if it is possible for you to pay the remaining balance off direct with the lender so that you can be sure it has been paid if you are concerned. That should then release any documentation they may be holding ref. the boat back to the seller. Of course this could mean the seller does a runner with the boat after you have paid for it - but the opposite risk is the one you have already identified. Others on here may identify pros and cons of this I've not thought of.

 

TBH all of the above is why we chose to buy through a broker as it takes most (though not all) risk out of buying a boat.

 

That said many many people by boats direct and privately every year with no problems what so ever.

 

 

Edit to add - and welcome to the forum BTW - just clocked this is your first post.

Edited March 29, 2011 by MJG

[Chris Pink]

After much dithering we're finally going to buy a secondhand narrowboat. We've already looked at a few through brokers but if buying privately what's the generally accepted protocol (or isn't there one)?

 

1. Make an offer subject to survey with or without a non-refundable deposit, or is it accepted that if you're paying for a lift out and survey then you must be serious?

 

2. Is there any document similar to a car registration document that gives at least some confidence that the seller actually owns the boat?

 

3. If the boat is currently securing a loan, how can you be assured the seller will pay it off with the proceeds of the sale? Or is it a case of crossing fingers......

 

We're cash buyers if that makes any difference.

 

Sorry if these seem rather naive questions, but we've saved for a long time for this and would hate it to go wrong! Thanks.

 

I don't quite understand your question no 1 but the answers to numbers 2 and 3 are absolutely not, do not ever buy a boat from someone you don't trust.

 

in answer to what i think your number 1 is, I wouldn't pay a deposit, refundable or otherwise pre survey, I would make an offer subject to survey and as you say that investment is a mark of serious intent.

 

If the owner whinges then i refer you to my answer above and advise you to walk away - there's loads of good boats for sale, it's a buyers market.

 

And brokers are in no way immune from sharp practice so trust and recommendation and personal knowledge are just as pertinent with them as with private buyers.

 

And be ever so careful with cash, you'll not get it back if it all goes tits up.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Chris Pink

[Albion]

To give both sides confidence about the money you could always have an escrow account opened up and held by a solicitor. It would add slightly to the costs involved of course but, relative to the sorts of monies involved in buying a boat, would probably be worthwhile.

Roger

[Picard]

After much dithering we're finally going to buy a secondhand narrowboat. We've already looked at a few through brokers but if buying privately what's the generally accepted protocol (or isn't there one)?

 

1. Make an offer subject to survey with or without a non-refundable deposit, or is it accepted that if you're paying for a lift out and survey then you must be serious?

 

2. Is there any document similar to a car registration document that gives at least some confidence that the seller actually owns the boat?

 

3. If the boat is currently securing a loan, how can you be assured the seller will pay it off with the proceeds of the sale? Or is it a case of crossing fingers......

 

We're cash buyers if that makes any difference.

 

Sorry if these seem rather naive questions, but we've saved for a long time for this and would hate it to go wrong! Thanks.

Hi. Can not comment on 2&3, but am in the last stages of selling my property and have been

looking at a NB. He is wanting £xxxxxx amount, but I am not making an offer until I get a survey and a valuation, the valuation you can get at the same time as the survey if you ask for it. Once I have both, and it is up to spec, I will make an offer based on the survey and valuation, as the valuation might be lower than the offer you might have made in the begining.

[jelunga]

In my view, if you are going to the expense of having the boat lifted out and surveyed, you need some kind of security that the seller will not in the mean time, sell the boat to somebody else.

I would give the seller a small deposit, subject to survey. Get a piece of paper describing the boat and agreeing to the sale to you "subject to survey" and with a note of what deposit has been paid. That way, you have a get out if the survey problem the boat is a crock of pooh, and if the owner sells elsewhere, you have a contract with the seller to sue for the loss you incurred in having the survey done.

But we really need a soliciter here, and not one using a red light outside!!

 

Keith

[WotEver]

Just curious, but does anyone know if Boatmark ever took off? http://www.police999.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1380:boatmark&catid=46:vehicle-crime&Itemid=77

 

I've never knowingly seen that logo on a boat.

 

Tony

 

I asee on Boatmark's site they say:

Before buying a boat, contact Boatmark to check whether the boat is free from finance and that the person selling the boat has the right to do so. Enquiries can be directed to Boatmark on 01722 413346.

 

A bit like an HPI check for boats. This would appear to answer OP's 3rd question.

 

Tony

[PaddingtonBear]

I have absolutely no paper work supporting the ownership of my boat, nor do you have, in any legal sense, to have any. Could this forum's lower deck lawyers please stop confusing the issue and keep their silly comments to themselves although I do agree that it is a pretty dodgy business buying a boat.

When I bought Warrior I just turned up and paid the owner with a carrier bag full of £50 notes and he was a Scouse

[koukouvagia]

I have absolutely no paper work supporting the ownership of my boat, nor do you have, in any legal sense, to have any. Could this forum's lower deck lawyers please stop confusing the issue and keep their silly comments to themselves although I do agree that it is a pretty dodgy business buying a boat.

When I bought Warrior I just turned up and paid the owner with a carrier bag full of £50 notes and he was a Scouse

 

I'm with Paddington Bear on this one. I acquired Owl, which was in a bit of a sorry state, as the result of swapping it for a new Springer. No money changed hands and there was no paperwork.

 

When I sold the Seffle, the chap arrived with a carrier bag full of used notes. He didn't know me from Adam. We agreed the deal with a handshake – that was all.

 

Similarly when I bought the butty, I just wrote out a cheque – no survey, no BSS - nothing.

 

 

 

That was all a long time ago. Would I do the same again? Probably. I think on these occasions you have to trust your instincts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Keeping Up]

When I bought Thistle we just met in the pub, agreed a price (suitably low to reflect the fact that I wasn't having a survey but that if were to have one it would probably find about £3k of work that needed doing), drank a pint to seal the deal, then money changed hands (no paperwork at all) and from that moment the boat was mine.

 

But that was 25 years ago. Would I do the same today? Probably not.

[PaddingtonBear]

One would have to surely Allan, as there is no way of finding out details of ownership, finance etc. as there aren't any. Perhaps we need Starman here and his philosophy..................can you find something that doesn't exist? The only way to have some form of security, is to buy via a broker but even then...., the highest form of security is trust and a handshake. It is even worse for those having boats built as the endless 'who owns what' discussions that have appeared on here testify but at least they have the very limited security provided by a mickey mouse, often unenforceable 'contract.

Edited March 30, 2011 by PaddingtonBear

[Moorings]

Thanks for all those responses. I don't think I'd favour the "cash in bag" approach - at least not these days!

 

Thanks again (and thanks for the welcome MJG - been reading for many years, but decided it was about time to join up).

[Chertsey]

Hi. Can not comment on 2&3, but am in the last stages of selling my property and have been

looking at a NB. He is wanting £xxxxxx amount, but I am not making an offer until I get a survey and a valuation, the valuation you can get at the same time as the survey if you ask for it. Once I have both, and it is up to spec, I will make an offer based on the survey and valuation, as the valuation might be lower than the offer you might have made in the begining.

Well that's all fine and dandy, but in the meantime he may well have sold it to someone less paranoid.

 

ed. to add that you clearly don't know much about buying boats; offers are usually made 'subject to survey' and the price is very often negotiated downwards following the survey.

 

One would have to surely Allan, as there is no way of finding out details of ownership, finance etc. as there aren't any. Perhaps we need Starman here and his philosophy..................can you find something that doesn't exist? The only way to have some form of security, is to buy via a broker but even then...., the highest form of security is trust and a handshake. It is even worse for those having boats built as the endless 'who owns what' discussions that have appeared on here testify but at least they have the very limited security provided by a mickey mouse, often unenforceable 'contract.

I dunno... we got a receipt! And have just sold the boat without any issues.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Chertsey