Help with inverter

[petalponk]

so for the first time since getting our boat we've actually taken it out of the marina!

 

The first night all the electrics worked fine.

 

Tonight we put one 12v light on and one 240v light and the inverter started beeping at me, and stopped when i turned one of the lights on. I then tried putting 2 240v lights on - continuous squeak and the lights went out.

 

So i'm guessing the leisure batteries are nearly dead?

 

We've been cruising for 6 hours today so they should be charged up right?

 

The inverter is a Nikkai 1000w one. We have no manual for it so any help on that front would be appreciated.

 

So what are us noobs doing wrong??

[Guest]

so for the first time since getting our boat we've actually taken it out of the marina!

 

The first night all the electrics worked fine.

 

Tonight we put one 12v light on and one 240v light and the inverter started beeping at me, and stopped when i turned one of the lights on. I then tried putting 2 240v lights on - continuous squeak and the lights went out.

 

So i'm guessing the leisure batteries are nearly dead?

 

We've been cruising for 6 hours today so they should be charged up right?

 

The inverter is a Nikkai 1000w one. We have no manual for it so any help on that front would be appreciated.

 

So what are us noobs doing wrong??

As everything worked OK first night, and you ran for 6 hrs, I would suggest that either:

 

Your batteries weren't charging

 

or

 

You are losing voltage to the inverter due to a bad connection.

 

Either way you need to get a digital voltmeter across the battery bank and report the voltages with engine running and without engine running.

 

A likely source of volt drop to the inverter is any battery isolator you have fitted in the circuit. I have seen more than one go faulty and cause volt drop.

[alan_fincher]

Tonight we put one 12v light on and one 240v light and the inverter started beeping at me, and stopped when i turned one of the lights on. I then tried putting 2 240v lights on - continuous squeak and the lights went out.

I assume you may have meant the beeping stopped when you turned one of the initial two lights off (rather than on) ?

 

Was that the 240 volt light you turned off ?

 

What mix of 12 and 240 volt lights do you have.

 

If you turn several 12 volt ones on, then are you OK ? Are they at what looks like a decent brightness ? (Put another way, does the issue only start when you try to run 240 volt lights).

 

If so,

 

Where is the inverter ?

 

Is it fully permanently wired into 12 volt supply with good thick cables ?

 

(That is, can we be sure it is not being supplied through any type of car type cigar plug, or crocodile clips onto the battery bank ?)

 

If permanently wired, how long are the 12 volt cables going to the inverter ?

 

Finally does your boat have any way of showing if a good charging current was going to the batteries whilst you did your 6 hours of boating ?

 

Or a voltmeter ?

 

 

 

Probably more questions once we have answers to those, but they should help start a diagnosis, I think.....

[classicstove]

Take the batteries to Halforeds or Kwik Fit and have them tested so ou know whethert they have become life expired

 

Remember that batteries only alst two years unless they are very well looked after

[ditchcrawler]

so for the first time since getting our boat we've actually taken it out of the marina!

 

The first night all the electrics worked fine.

 

Tonight we put one 12v light on and one 240v light and the inverter started beeping at me, and stopped when i turned one of the lights on. I then tried putting 2 240v lights on - continuous squeak and the lights went out.

 

So i'm guessing the leisure batteries are nearly dead?

 

We've been cruising for 6 hours today so they should be charged up right?

 

The inverter is a Nikkai 1000w one. We have no manual for it so any help on that front would be appreciated.

 

So what are us noobs doing wrong??

How big are the 240 volt bulbs 100w?

[Nickhlx]

so for the first time since getting our boat we've actually taken it out of the marina!

 

The first night all the electrics worked fine.

 

Tonight we put one 12v light on and one 240v light and the inverter started beeping at me, and stopped when i turned one of the lights on. I then tried putting 2 240v lights on - continuous squeak and the lights went out.

 

So i'm guessing the leisure batteries are nearly dead?

 

We've been cruising for 6 hours today so they should be charged up right?

 

The inverter is a Nikkai 1000w one. We have no manual for it so any help on that front would be appreciated.

 

So what are us noobs doing wrong??

 

 

 

 

 

Well... a bit more info needed.... You will need a voltmeter if you don't have already - the boat may have some sort of meter but in any case it is really a must have to do other checks and would be well worth getting one - try and borrow one for 10 mins to do some tests if you don't ... and have some basic instruction on how to measure volts from the owner.

 

You need to know if the system is charging ? Are the battery connections apparently clean and tight ? Have the batteries got enough water in if they are the wet type ?

 

To find out whether the system is charging when the engine is running :

 

Firstly measure the battery volts without the engine running - then measure the voltage on the battery terminals when the engine is running at say half revs ? (Great caution if moving parts are nearby and bits are hot !)

 

( Assuming a 12 volt system ) It should rise from the original "off" voltage ( less than 12.2 is pretty "flat") to perhaps around 13 volts initially and several hours later up to around 14.0 to 14.8 ( depends on battery type and alternator setting). If this happens over this sort of timescale, all may not be lost.

 

If it immediately goes up to e.g 14.8 and was under 12.0 when all off,

i) the batteries are likely dead

ii) the charging system is likely working.

 

This is possibly the most likely situation if the boat has been laid up for a while, although it could have been only like this for a very short time (do you know its recent history ?)

 

Also, can you advise how many and what voltage / capacity the batteries are, and if you can see it, the alternator type and output rating ? You may well have two alternators - the smaller will be for charging the engine start battery and the larger will be for charging the main domestic bank of batteries - this is the one that supplies the boat lighting etc.

 

You will (or maybe have) discovered that unless you have a good electrical system it is easy to discharge it quickly by inadvertent use of electricity - an electric fridge is usually the largest consumer of power, and if you are leaving lots of halogen lights on, as might be done at home, the power will again be quickly depleted. One of the big surprises many will find is how long it takes to replace power consumed as the acceptance of charging current tapers off as the battery bank becomes charged - if you think of 6 hours plus after a typical evening usage ( and it may be more) that will be a good place to start !

 

People will also suggest a "Power Audit" be done and likely suggest some sort of state of charge monitoring device would be very useful to have - for those with limited technical know how or want a device to do it for them, the Merlin Smartgauge designed by ( one of ! ) the resident experts on this forum is a great device - however it needs the system to be in good basic order for it to be able to report meaningful results.

 

Hope that helps - others will be along shortly to add to my comments...

 

Nick

 

edited to add.... I have just read through your post again and see that the batteries gave an evening's use OK. You did 6 hours

cruising today and there was next to no charge available from the battery bank - this would suggest that no charge had

been reaching the bank for some reason (or the daytime drain was about equal to the charge current - less likely).

I wonder if there is a charging problem ( faulty alternator/ broken alternator belt, or somehow isolated). The batteries

must have been at least reasonable to power you for the first evening, and 6 hours cruising should have gone a fair

way to bringing the battery bank to a good state of charge - certainly more than a few minutes of power available.

Whatever, it is important to get the batteries charged and not leave them in a state of discharge for any more time

than is absolutely necessary, as this will permanently damage them - they could be perfectly serviceable and the

alternator not producing charge for some reason.. so a shame to damage them and add to the expense of sorting the

problem.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Nickhlx

[Chalky]

Do you have volt and ammeters fitted to the charging circuit or can you measure the battery voltages. As said previously it does sound like flat batteries, however it also sounds like there may be a charging issue. My suspicion is sick batteries.

 

I had a nikkai inverter from Maplins. It wasn't one of the greatest pieces of power electronic design I've come across and it failed quite quickly. I replaced it with a Sterling and never had a problem since.

[alan_fincher]

Whilst this may well be a charging or battery issue, on the limited information that Petalponk has so far given us, I can't see how people can be in any way certain of this.....

 

So far we have not been told, (so far as I can see), that there is completely failing situation with the 12 volt power....

 

The only thing stated with certainty is that the inverter is not able to run a couple of 240 volt lights.

 

That could be an issue with the inverter, or the cable, switch, fuse or other connections through which it is running....

 

Petalponk - are your 12 volt lights still working fine, or not ? How about things like the fresh water pump ?

 

If none of those are dying, it's far less likely to be batteries or charging system. If the 12 volt lights are starting to fade, then I agree with the crowd!......

[Guest]

Whilst this may well be a charging or battery issue, on the limited information that Petalponk has so far given us, I can't see how people can be in any way certain of this.....

 

So far we have not been told, (so far as I can see), that there is completely failing situation with the 12 volt power....

 

The only thing stated with certainty is that the inverter is not able to run a couple of 240 volt lights.

 

That could be an issue with the inverter, or the cable, switch, fuse or other connections through which it is running....

 

Petalponk - are your 12 volt lights still working fine, or not ? How about things like the fresh water pump ?

 

If none of those are dying, it's far less likely to be batteries or charging system. If the 12 volt lights are starting to fade, then I agree with the crowd!......

Indeed,I had not read the OP thoroughly enough. Having re-read I agree that there is no mention of whether the 12V system is working correctly, and that is a vital clue as to what is going on. I still maintain that some voltmeter readings across the battery would be a good idea though engine running/not running. Old habits die hard

[Justme]

The thing is most 12v kit will still work happily down to very low voltages (except fridge & diesel heater).

[dave_2A_]

Not got one of those 'Bank 1/Bank 2/Both' rotary-type isolators by any chance? If so, was it in the correct position to charge the domestic bank whilst cruising?

[Justme]

Not got one of those 'Bank 1/Bank 2/Both' rotary-type isolators by any chance? If so, was it in the correct position to charge the domestic bank whilst cruising?

 

 

I thought that too but then realised that if it was wired correctly then if it was off the inverter would also so not work.

[dave_2A_]

I thought that too but then realised that if it was wired correctly then if it was off the inverter would also so not work.

 

But how many are? The isolators are usually there already, and the invertors just wired up to the domestic bank, relying on it's own internal switch

[petalponk]

Right, thanks for all the replies.

 

Obviously I need to get a hold of a voltmeter.

 

Right I'm back in the marina and back on the shoreline, so everythings ok until we take it out again.

 

As far as i can tell, the starter battery is being charged up as we cruise. It seems that the domestic batteries are not being charged as we cruise. I have come to this conclusion because when I put the battery chargers back on, one was full and one was dead.

 

Is it normal to have 2 seperate altenators?

 

If so I guess one isn't working?

 

I will come back with some more information as soon as i can, thanks!

 

Oh and the only switches i have is the one that switches on the inverter and one which says shoreline/off/inverter

 

Oh also, We decided to turn the inverter off and only really used the water pump, and yes it worked fine.

Edited March 20, 2011 by petalponk

[ditchcrawler]

?

 

I will come back with some more information as soon as i can, thanks!

 

Oh and the only switches i have is the one that switches on the inverter and one which says shoreline/off/inverter

 

Oh also, We decided to turn the inverter off and only really used the water pump, and yes it worked fine.

Somewhere you will have battery isolator switches.

[WotEver]

Is it normal to have 2 seperate altenators?

Not necessarily, no. A quick glance at the engine will show you if you have one or two though.

 

If you only have one, then the split-charge system or wiring thereto, whether relay or diode splitter, would appear to be faulty.

 

Tony

[bassplayer]

Not necessarily, no. A quick glance at the engine will show you if you have one or two though.

 

If you only have one, then the split-charge system or wiring thereto, whether relay or diode splitter, would appear to be faulty.

 

Tony

[bassplayer]

I've had a Nikai 12v 150w inverter for over a year. There is clearly a design fault because the undervoltage LED and annoying bleeper goes off now when the input voltage is still 13.5v. As an ex electronic engineer I have done the responsible th

ing and removed the micro Speaker! I wish the Chinese would use non degrading components...no maybe not...