Limehouse to Teddington

[Bobbybass]

I thought I knew the Tidal Thames fairly well, but I've never found the Flash.

 

Tone

I see..... ..

Picking on me again eh...?...just what I'd expect from an ageing rocker...!!

Bob Two-flasks

[carlt]

So we've always done everything by the book, followed exactly the letter of the law and done nowt we might have got a "ticking off" for....Yeah right?

 

When did the default position move from "obey the law" to "only obey the laws you can't get away with"?

 

Presumably the people who think it's okay to flout this particular law have no problem with those that drive without insurance (or tax, mot or licence, for that matter), overstay at moorings, don't bother with a boat licence or rob banks...as long as they don't get caught?

[Midnight Rider]

The absence of an approved course, issuing certificates, is one major obstacle.

And that can't be changed?

[carlt]

And that can't be changed?

I'm sure it will be, at some stage....probably not in time for Evo, though.

[Tillerman]

When did the default position move from "obey the law" to "only obey the laws you can't get away with"?

 

Presumably the people who think it's okay to flout this particular law have no problem with those that drive without insurance (or tax, mot or licence, for that matter), overstay at moorings, don't bother with a boat licence or rob banks...as long as they don't get caught?

 

and this particular law would be enshrined in which particular Act of Parliament?

 

Or is it actually a "guidline" or recomendation issued by the PLA?

[Naughty Cal]

and this particular law would be enshrined in which particular Act of Parliament?

 

Or is it actually a "guidline" or recomendation issued by the PLA?

 

Neither. Its a requirement

[Guest]

I wonder if any of the relevant authorities ever read this Forum?

 

or have the content drawn to their attention....

[Tillerman]

When did the default position move from "obey the law" to "only obey the laws you can't get away with"?

 

Did I intimate that?

No, didn't think so.

 

I asked if you had always followed exactly "the book" - which does not always mean "the law"

So you've never exceeded the speed limit (in a car) even by 2 miles an hour?

 

Neither. Its a requirement

 

But not a law delivered by parliament

[carlt]

Did I intimate that?

No, didn't think so.

 

Well you did actually intimate it, to me, but you may not have intended to.

[Tillerman]

Well you did actually intimate it, to me, but you may not have intended to.

 

"Following rules" is what I was intending to say with the "by the book" phrase which didn't necesaryily mean "the law"

eg following the rules of posting on this forum?

Taking 12 items to the "only 10 items" checkout in a supermarket

you get the drift.

And if this particular requirement is equally un-enforced, you can see how easy it is for people to flout it.

[carlt]

 

And if this particular requirement is equally un-enforced, you can see how easy it is for people to flout it.

I can't speak for the PLA but I do know that, offshore, the CG are pretty keen on sailors having the necessary training and documentation, if they have VHF.

 

Personally, when a boat 100 times my size is bearing down on me, I am glad I know the correct protocol, so there is no misunderstanding, when we communicate.

 

For the sake of a day's training and £100, I think it's a bit silly 'taking the chance'...even though there is no legal requirement for me to have VHF, on my sea boat.

[Keeping Up]

and this particular law would be enshrined in which particular Act of Parliament?

 

Or is it actually a "guidline" or recomendation issued by the PLA?

 

To quote from the regulations:

 

"The Port of London Authority (PLA), in exercise of its powers under Section 111 of

the Port of London Act 1968, as amended (the Act) and as the Competent Harbour

Authority under the provisions of the Pilotage Act 1987, and with the agreement of

the Chamber of Shipping, repeals the PLA General Directions 2006 (as amended) and

gives the following General Directions to vessels in the Port of London"

 

Also:

 

"Failure by the Master of a vessel to comply with a Direction constitutes an offence,

and renders that person liable, on conviction, to a fine up to level 5 on the standard

scale."

 

I don't know if that answers the question or not ... ?

[Bobbybass]

To quote from the regulations:

 

"The Port of London Authority (PLA), in exercise of its powers under Section 111 of

the Port of London Act 1968, as amended (the Act) and as the Competent Harbour

Authority under the provisions of the Pilotage Act 1987, and with the agreement of

the Chamber of Shipping, repeals the PLA General Directions 2006 (as amended) and

gives the following General Directions to vessels in the Port of London"

 

Also:

 

"Failure by the Master of a vessel to comply with a Direction constitutes an offence,

and renders that person liable, on conviction, to a fine up to level 5 on the standard

scale."

 

I don't know if that answers the question or not ... ?

 

I think this is along the lines of a friend of mine...who caused a problem in Portmouth Harbour and was using a VHF without license.

Although...they allowed him to 'escape'..the threatened fine is about £5000 for even just possesing a VHF without license. Hmm..?...yup..I think you need a license even if it just sits there switched off..?

 

I may though...stand corrected..?

 

Bob

 

Just looked up the PLA website...and the level 5 fine is up to £5000..and that is without the possible ....unlicensed VHF fine...

Not that I know of anyone where the fine has actually been followed through..

 

Bob

Edited March 17, 2011 by Bobbybass

[alan_fincher]

...yup..I think you need a license even if it just sits there switched off..?

 

I may though...stand corrected..?

I don't believe so.

 

You can own one, even switch it on and listen, I think.

 

It would be transmitting without the recognised qualification that you should not normally do.

 

I don't think Marine VHF is probably different from some other forms of radio in this respect, (e.g. Amateur), - not illegal to own or listen, but transmission not allowed.

 

However it's a tidy few years since I had much to do with this, so if it has changed, I'm also happy to be educated!

 

(.........On the other hand, there used to be certain frequencies where it was illegal to even tell anyone you had been listening, I believe!.....)

[NB Willawaw]

Irrespective of whether you will get caught or not and if you do, what the fine might or might not be, surely the important thing here

is that users know how to operate the VHF efficiently, so as not to be a nuisance to others and block important calls.

 

I can remember sailing on the Taiwan Banks when I was at sea, listening to Taiwanese fishermen singing on Ch.16. Each boat would sing a verse and then the next boat would carry on the song. Another popular thing, closer to home, was the idiot who taped the PTT down and put the mic next to Radio 1 blaring out of a transistor radio in their wheelhouse.

 

Less deliberate is the user who rambles on, unnecessarily repeating information and making their call last 3 times longer than necessary or who has a full conversation on Ch.16.

 

We used to be able to spot newbies and weekend yachtsmen who would adhere strictly to the book in their calling procedure.

 

If you listen to the professionals, their VHF calls are very different.

 

There is a website which allows you to listen to the VHF communications in the Solent in real time. I'll post the link if I can find it. The VHF training is a bit like a driving test - it teaches you the pukka way of doing things, but most change their "driving" habits once they do it for real. It might be useful for some of you to listen to the professional users.

 

Edited to add link:

 

http://www.solentwaters.co.uk/Radio/radiopage.html

Edited March 17, 2011 by NB Willawaw

[Bobbybass]

I don't believe so.

 

You can own one, even switch it on and listen, I think.

 

It would be transmitting without the recognised qualification that you should not normally do.

 

I don't think Marine VHF is probably different from some other forms of radio in this respect, (e.g. Amateur), - not illegal to own or listen, but transmission not allowed.

 

However it's a tidy few years since I had much to do with this, so if it has changed, I'm also happy to be educated!

 

(.........On the other hand, there used to be certain frequencies where it was illegal to even tell anyone you had been listening, I believe!.....)

 

Not arguing what you say..its really how you interpret.."available for use".

Quoted and pasted from the regulations :

 

This means that maritime radio equipment available for use on board a vessel that is owned by a UK citizen or UK registered must be:

 

Covered by a valid ship radio licence or transportable marine radio licence issued in the United Kingdom by the Radiocommunications Agency;

Operated by or under the direct personal supervision of a holder of a valid Maritime radio operator's certificate;

Compliant with the requirements of either the Marine Equipment Directive (MED), the Radio & Telecommunications Terminal Equipment Directive or Nationally Type approved.

[alan_fincher]

Not arguing what you say..its really how you interpret.."available for use".

Not sure.....

 

I think it also depends on how you interpret "operated by"......

 

If switching it on and listening doesn't count as "operating", then I think you can have set without the operator, but if switching it on counts as "operating" then you would need someone with the certification.

 

I'm still inclined to think you can have it, but shouldn't normally transmit on it, if you don't have the Short Range Certificate.

[Bobbybass]

Not sure.....

 

I think it also depends on how you interpret "operated by"......

 

If switching it on and listening doesn't count as "operating", then I think you can have set without the operator, but if switching it on counts as "operating" then you would need someone with the certification.

 

I'm still inclined to think you can have it, but shouldn't normally transmit on it, if you don't have the Short Range Certificate.

Probably...nobody will ever bother to check you (although I was sort of 'checked')...and if they do..is anyone going to take action..?...

BUT...as others have already said...if something goes wrong.. your insurance company is going to be straight onto this..you have not conformed to regulations...and so they will not pay out...even if VHF had no part in it.

A bit like running into something in your car...but they don't pay out because you didn't tell them you had a non-standard exhaust.

If there was an accident..you could end up owing an awful lot of dosh !

 

That is probably the most critical of the whys and wherefors..

 

Bob

Edited March 17, 2011 by Bobbybass

[NB Willawaw]

Interestingly, the regulation you have quoted implies that you can use VHF without a ticket providing somebody else who has onboard is supervising !

[Bobbybass]

Interestingly, the regulation you have quoted implies that you can use VHF without a ticket providing somebody else who has onboard is supervising !

It is my "understanding" that is indeed correct.

I was told this on my course..that my wife can use the set although she has no license...as long as I am supervising (that will be the day !!)

 

Bob

[alan_fincher]

Interestingly, the regulation you have quoted implies that you can use VHF without a ticket providing somebody else who has onboard is supervising !

Yes, I believe so.

 

The same always applied to amateur radio when I was active on it, and I guess still does.

 

This is how cubs/brownies/scouts/guides/Prince Philip etc were able to have conversations legally on amateur bands, without having the qualification. (Although King Hussein of Jordan needed no such help, being himself a fully licensed amateur with the distinctive call-sign JY1!.....)

 

[Evo]

Well it seems I am in a minority of 1 then. Everyone else thats done this section of river has a radio and a valid licence...!!!! Hmmmmm.

 

Maybe they have been frightened off owning up by silly threats such as "Bring this thread to the attention of the authorities"...oooh..!! Like they are going to give a toss about what some wally says on a gossip forum. I suppose you might get a star if you send an apple with your letter Martin...I assume you'd want the attention and wouldn't be anonymous.

 

Oh well at least I now know its going to be pretty much like Brentford was last year...absolutely nothing to get worked up about just A whole load of todo about nothing from busy bodies on here.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Evo

[Strads]

Or maybe the 99% believe that complying with regulations is agood ideas in general...

 

If we all took your approach, no one would do anything correctly and anarchy would eventually be the result. oh and complete chaos

 

I assume that you dont bother with insuring, taxing moting any car, paying rates, etc etc

[Evo]

You absolutely right..!!

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't paid rates for years..

[Bobbybass]

Well it seems I am in a minority of 1 then. Everyone else thats done this section of river has a radio and a valid licence...!!!! Hmmmmm.

 

Maybe they have been frightened off owning up by silly threats such as "Bring this thread to the attention of the authorities"...oooh..!! Like they are going to give a toss about what some wally says on a gossip forum. I suppose you might get a star if you send an apple with your letter Martin...I assume you'd want the attention and wouldn't be anonymous.

 

Oh well at least I now know its going to be pretty much like Brentford was last year...absolutely nothing to get worked up about just A whole load of todo about nothing from busy bodies on here.

Well....thats your opinion.

My opinion ?..

I didn't see the point of the expense, but once there was very glad.

There is no speed limit. there are very large craft EVERYWHERE including trains of 1,000 ton barges...you head towards a bridge arch..you are facing huge and fast boats...including tour boats that make a point of covering you in wash..and in the case of one lady I met..stopping her engine and leaving her floundering towards a bridge stanchion.

I'm told that if the police didn't get a line to her..narrowboats tend to get carried on either side of stanchions with the possibility of them just rolling over.

 

If anything goes wrong and you are involved in an accident without applying the regulations...you will be uninsured and probably found liable even if it wasn't your fault.

Just like driving a car without a license. Do you do that?..maybe you do..

 

I personally don't give a toss if you have it or not...

It was you that asked the question.

 

Bob