Thetford cassettes - not the usual debate!

[DJW]

Can any thetford c200 owners tell me how much space you need to pull the cassette out to change it?

 

Our boat currently has a pump out but for various reasons i'm thinking about changing it to a cassette. The cassette door would have to open into the corridor and I need to check whether the corridor is wide enough to pull a cassette out.

 

 

Also, am i right that the c200 is available in two options:

1. C200-CS with electric flush and connection to the boat's fresh water system

2. C200-CW with manual flush and it's own flush water reservoir that you have to top up

 

I'd prefer to have it plumbed in but with a manual flush (less to go wrong) but can't see that this exists - does anyone know any better?

 

Cheers

[alan_fincher]

Can any thetford c200 owners tell me how much space you need to pull the cassette out to change it?

 

Our boat currently has a pump out but for various reasons i'm thinking about changing it to a cassette. The cassette door would have to open into the corridor and I need to check whether the corridor is wide enough to pull a cassette out.

 

 

Also, am i right that the c200 is available in two options:

1. C200-CS with electric flush and connection to the boat's fresh water system

2. C200-CW with manual flush and it's own flush water reservoir that you have to top up

 

I'd prefer to have it plumbed in but with a manual flush (less to go wrong) but can't see that this exists - does anyone know any better?

 

Cheers

Can't tell you chapter and verse about minimum required corridor width, other than I know I agonised about this when retrofitting a CS-200 where the cassette needed to pull out into a narrow corridor, and the actual answer was that there was wfar more room than I needed.

 

Unless your corridor is very, very narrow, or you have shelving or something opposite, it would not normally be an issue.

 

But if you want, I can measure next time I'm there.

 

The only thing that is "electric" about the plumbed in flush model, is that a small solenoid blade valve controls the flow.

 

Hard to imagine how you could have one that runs on your domestic supply, but without the electrically opening valve.

 

There is not a lot there to go wrong.

 

One thing though is that the reinforced hose that the flush water goes through is quite an odd internal diameter. IIRC something like 8 mm ?? It's actually quite hard to find fittings that get you connected to (say) normal 15mm plumbing, as most tails with barbs on are either to big or too small for the supplied hose. I think I'm currently using a length of (probably) 8mm copper pipe with a olive crimped on, to give the hose something to grip to, when I put a worm-drive clip on to secure it.

[MoominPapa]

Can't tell you chapter and verse about minimum required corridor width, other than I know I agonised about this when retrofitting a CS-200 where the cassette needed to pull out into a narrow corridor, and the actual answer was that there was wfar more room than I needed.

A reasonable ballpark would be the length of a cassette: by the time it's pulled back that far, the far end is free of the mechanism and is can be manipulated up and/or sideways to clear any obstruction.

 

One thing though is that the reinforced hose that the flush water goes through is quite an odd internal diameter. IIRC something like 8 mm ?? It's actually quite hard to find fittings that get you connected to (say) normal 15mm plumbing, as most tails with barbs on are either to big or too small for the supplied hose. I think I'm currently using a length of (probably) 8mm copper pipe with a olive crimped on, to give the hose something to grip to, when I put a worm-drive clip on to secure it.

10mm pipe works fine sans olive, in my experience.

 

MP.

[gilby]

Our retro fitted cs has the cassette opening under the sink into a cabinet. Definitly narrower than the corridor so I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[Guest]

Can any thetford c200 owners tell me how much space you need to pull the cassette out to change it?

 

Our boat currently has a pump out but for various reasons i'm thinking about changing it to a cassette. The cassette door would have to open into the corridor and I need to check whether the corridor is wide enough to pull a cassette out.

 

 

Also, am i right that the c200 is available in two options:

1. C200-CS with electric flush and connection to the boat's fresh water system

2. C200-CW with manual flush and it's own flush water reservoir that you have to top up

 

I'd prefer to have it plumbed in but with a manual flush (less to go wrong) but can't see that this exists - does anyone know any better?

 

Cheers

 

You are right to consider and check this - it was the first thing I considered when we first thought about having a cassette loo (C-250 in our case) retro fitted to the Dog House. It transpired there is enough room in our corridor to get the cassette out but directly opposite our bathroom at that (ie floor) level is the boxing that contains the fin rads. and pipe work. That is why it was a particular concern to me, so much so that I visited our local chandlers to measure a spare cassette to check the clearance. On paper it looked tight but adequate, in practice there is ample room which these pics. of our installation show, given as has already been said the cassette becomes quite 'movable' when released from the locking mechanism.

 

 

 

I started by checking the dimensions of the actual loo we were going to have fitted - working on the length of the cassette being just less than than the base of the toilet - the dimensions of your proposed choice, the C-200 are here-

 

http://www.thetford.com/Home/Products/PermanentToilets/CassetteC200CWSCS/tabid/112/Default.aspx

 

From that it should be clear if you have to go into a bit more checking or if it is obvious if the cassette will slide out no problem.

 

 

..

Edited January 7, 2011 by MJG

[john6767]

Our C200 cassette pulls out into the narrow corridor by the bathroom, and at floor level there is the boxing that contains the central heating pipes. So I would say that is as narrow a corridor space as anyone would have and there is lots of room for the cassette to pull out.

 

It is hard to picture exactly how you remove it, not something you tend to think about really once you have one, but the cassette is clear of the mechanism quite soon as its is removed so depending on the trap door size you have it can be turned sideways as it comes out.

 

The only tricky bit for me is that I like to carry it horizontal through the boat, paranoid about it leaking I guess, and the narrow corridor space is not wide enough to get my shoulders side on, so its hard to pick it up. I know I should be smaller, perhaps getting the wife to do this would be the answer.

[Dominic M]

Can any thetford c200 owners tell me how much space you need to pull the cassette out to change it?

 

Our boat currently has a pump out but for various reasons i'm thinking about changing it to a cassette. The cassette door would have to open into the corridor and I need to check whether the corridor is wide enough to pull a cassette out.

 

 

Also, am i right that the c200 is available in two options:

1. C200-CS with electric flush and connection to the boat's fresh water system

2. C200-CW with manual flush and it's own flush water reservoir that you have to top up

 

I'd prefer to have it plumbed in but with a manual flush (less to go wrong) but can't see that this exists - does anyone know any better?

 

Cheers

Hi there. I've handled plenty of boats where the cassette pulls out into the corridor exactly as you describe. Unless your corridor is unusually narrow - very narrow to the extent that you can only get down it sideways - it will work.

[WJM]

When the cassettes are new they can be carried single handed like a suitcase, but over time the seals are less good so the horizontal carry is essential! Mine pop out into the corridor very near the side hatch so I usually put them out through the hatch. For many years I had two cassettes and then I bought a third. The third made a big difference, much less stress thinking about when next to empty.

[MoominPapa]

When the cassettes are new they can be carried single handed like a suitcase, but over time the seals are less good so the horizontal carry is essential! Mine pop out into the corridor very near the side hatch so I usually put them out through the hatch. For many years I had two cassettes and then I bought a third. The third made a big difference, much less stress thinking about when next to empty.

Agreed. We've went from two cassettes to three when we replaced a free-standing porta-potti with a C200. Much more flexible as long as you have the storage space.

 

MP.

[Guest]

To the Op - just one more to thing to think about ref. retrofitting a cassette loo and corridor width.

 

If you are intending to remove the waste tank (assuming it is removable) like we had done, the other dimension to check is the size of the tank to ensure it will pass through the corridor when you take it out. Bear in mind that builders sometimes put big tanks in before the rest of the internal structure so you do need to check the tank dimensions.

 

Ours was small enough for Aqua Narrowboats to get it out un-molested but there may have been the need to cut it up on the boat to remove it a far from nice job…

 

 

..

Edited January 7, 2011 by MJG

[sebrof]

46mm

[DJW]

Thanks for the replies all.

 

It sounds as if it will pull out fine - our corridor is almost wide enough for me to walk down without turning my shoulders. We do have central heating pipes boxed in low down but the space available looks no less than in MJG's pictures.

 

I will double check with the dimensions of the toilet base to be sure.

 

 

AlanF - thanks for clarifying what is electric on the CS model, doesn't sound too complex and presumably easy to fix if it does go wrong - maybe that is the one to go for.

 

 

The pumpout tank will not be removed as it is integral (ie the bottom and sides of the tank are formed by the hull) - this is part of the reason for wanting to change.....

[FadeToScarlet]

I'd prefer to have it plumbed in but with a manual flush (less to go wrong) but can't see that this exists - does anyone know any better?

 

Cheers

 

Here's a thought, could be rubbish though!

 

Have the manual one, but see if the shower hose will reach the flushing reservoir filler, or plumb in a tap just above the filler. That way, you've the hastle free qualities of the electric plumbed-in model, with the reliability of the manual.

[Guest]

Here's a thought, could be rubbish though!

 

Have the manual one, but see if the shower hose will reach the flushing reservoir filler,

 

It's not as daft as it sounds - You have the ability to quickly rinse around the bowl if you need to (eg run out of water) using the shower....

 

However like Alan has said I think there is very little to go wrong in the electric version

(Cue the soleniod in mine now going belly up!)

 

I think from memory on the manual version the filler is through the door though - so it would need the shower pipe to be long enough to reach that.

Edited January 7, 2011 by MJG

[alan_fincher]

Here's a thought, could be rubbish though!

 

Have the manual one, but see if the shower hose will reach the flushing reservoir filler, or plumb in a tap just above the filler. That way, you've the hastle free qualities of the electric plumbed-in model, with the reliability of the manual.

Unless of course the one that has a built in flush tank on still uses electricity to open a valve to release the flush ?

 

I don't know, but it's possible, in which case you have not really avoided any complexity.

 

One advantage I can see is that if one with an integral tank fails, the most water that could end up in the boat is less than the contents of that integral tank.

 

It kind of worries me that if the flush on a plumbed in model failed open, you could end up with your complete fresh water tank contents attempting to be pumped into a bowl that is definitely not large enough to hold them all

[Guest]

It kind of worries me that if the flush on a plumbed in model failed open, you could end up with your complete fresh water tank contents attempting to be pumped into a bowl that is definitely not large enough to hold them all

 

at one time I would have said surely such a device would never fail open - it would always fail safe.

 

A different scenario but having had a gas supply solenoid on our (home) boiler fail 'open' with the pilot and main burner out thus pouring gas through to the outside flue I would not be so sure something like that could not be possible.

 

The only way I could stop the flow was to turn the gas off at the mains...

[WJM]

Are you sure it fails to 'open'?

 

 

I have a friend who's race car throttle failed to the open position. After he hit the wall he spent six months in hospital.

Edited January 7, 2011 by WJM

[MoominPapa]

Unless of course the one that has a built in flush tank on still uses electricity to open a valve to release the flush ?

 

I don't know, but it's possible, in which case you have not really avoided any complexity.

 

One advantage I can see is that if one with an integral tank fails, the most water that could end up in the boat is less than the contents of that integral tank.

 

It kind of worries me that if the flush on a plumbed in model failed open, you could end up with your complete fresh water tank contents attempting to be pumped into a bowl that is definitely not large enough to hold them all

 

I think that the non-tank model is like it is partly for compatibility with motorhome water systems. Some of these don't have pressure switches, they rely on microswitches on the taps to turn the pump on. The flush switch has connections for this. I guess with a built in tank, there would be no need for a switch at all and a mechanical valve would do.

 

I worry about the valve failing too, which is why I installed an isolating valve next to the toilet.

 

MP.

[john6767]

It kind of worries me that if the flush on a plumbed in model failed open, you could end up with your complete fresh water tank contents attempting to be pumped into a bowl that is definitely not large enough to hold them all

 

 

Someone please tell me that it does fail safe, you have got me worried now

 

 

 

[FadeToScarlet]

Are you sure it fails to 'open'?

 

 

I have a friend who's race car throttle failed to the open position. After he hit the wall he spent six months in hospital.

 

Not quite as dramatic, but the same happened to me on the boat when the throttle arm sheered off.... coming into town at nearly full throttle was worrying.

[Guest]

 

I worry about the valve failing too, which is why I installed an isolating valve next to the toilet.

 

 

Aqua Narrowboats fitted one to ours too, cleverly accessed via. from inside the wardrobe, as to preventing the water being drawn off from the main tank if the solenoid/valve failed...it would rely on you being on board and/or the supply pump switched off.

 

Someone please tell me that it does fail safe, you have got me worried now

 

Of course likely it would, We are are just talking here very remote possibilities.

 

Chill..

[Chertsey]

It's not as daft as it sounds - You have the ability to quickly rinse around the bowl if you need to (eg run out of water) using the shower....

 

 

That was the standard method of flushing on my first narrow boat - it was a sea toilet converted to pumpout, but with no provision for getting flushing water in. It worked absolutely fine and it was useful being able to control the amount of water used according to need.

[DJW]

Here's a thought, could be rubbish though!

 

Have the manual one, but see if the shower hose will reach the flushing reservoir filler, or plumb in a tap just above the filler. That way, you've the hastle free qualities of the electric plumbed-in model, with the reliability of the manual.

 

 

I had thought of doing that as our shower hose would definitely reach the toilet. However, it definitely won't reach outside the bathroom, into the corridor and in through the 'trap door' if the connection is in the back of the toilet.

 

I will have to overcome my technophobia and get the electric one.

 

Cheers

[cariad]

i have a c200-cw and have just measured the distance needed to clear in passiageway.

500 m.m. will do it for you. hope this helps.

 

 

Can any thetford c200 owners tell me how much space you need to pull the cassette out to change it?

 

Our boat currently has a pump out but for various reasons i'm thinking about changing it to a cassette. The cassette door would have to open into the corridor and I need to check whether the corridor is wide enough to pull a cassette out.

 

 

Also, am i right that the c200 is available in two options:

1. C200-CS with electric flush and connection to the boat's fresh water system

2. C200-CW with manual flush and it's own flush water reservoir that you have to top up

 

I'd prefer to have it plumbed in but with a manual flush (less to go wrong) but can't see that this exists - does anyone know any better?

 

Cheers

[Guest]

 

I will have to overcome my technophobia and get the electric one.

 

Cheers

 

as has been said there isn't a huge amount of 'technology' in them.

 

No pump because the loo relies on a simple solenoid system to open a valve to allow the boat pump to switch on and flush the loo.

 

They (Or at least the c-250) can get quite fancy with incremental level gauges and electric blade openers as options - I went with the KISS philosophy which also kept the cost down.

 

Our blade is opened with slight of hand and we have just one switch and light for the level indication.

Edited January 10, 2011 by MJG