Self Protection on the Towpaths

[bargemast]

Not having any weapons on board is the safest way of protecting yourself for doing something that you could very well regret for the rest of your life.

 

Don't worry, as worrying won't change the situation, and it only spoils your possible happiness.

 

Peter.

[mrsmelly]

I believe he is a liability if he uses a weapon to fend off drunk or obnoxious youths/trouble makers. I don't want to meet the pissed off individual or group who thinks all boaters carry weaponary and approach me or my vessel in a more violent manner because of that.

 

Violence begets violence in my opinion and to this end, he is a liability to me and to all of us (except you if that makes you feel better).

 

Hi Leonie

 

Your profile is anonimous so I have no idea of your age or life experience, are you a Social worker ?

It is sad but also very true that there are ( a minoirity ) of scumbags out there to whom reasoning is useless and I am afraid you have to fight fire with fire. Trouble on the towpath is very rare but at times being polite is of no use. Ten years ago cruising thro Wigan with a very polite very good friend of mine on his boat we were confronted by a gang of yobs stood on a low bridge near one of the locks

they were being arsey and throwing small stones at us. My friend who is from Oxfordshire politely asked them in a far too nice way to refrain from doing so and tried to reason with them. I was inside my boat at the time I AM NOT a violent person but was for a lot of years a pc in a very rough area of Yorkshire so my life experience is somewhat different to my friends. I went up with my large dog on a lead explained to them the facts of life and got back ( Sorry mate we were just having a bit of fun ) so to speak. With that they left and all was well.

I hate all violence but I am sorry to say that in these times and this world on a very odd occasion playing the ostrich simply will not work.

 

[Newold]

is possibly going to get worse for a while, economy effecting jobs, benefits etc, and these days, houses can be hard targets, therefore perhaps a boat is easier to steal from. Only had stones thrown at me once, on the lea, i did take revenge with a catapult. I do have an air rifle on board, along with a baseball bat (and ball), just in case, you never really know do you, a times are changing every week, better safe than sorry

 

Excellent points but I must say to anyone considering using a baseball bat or tiller for example they are totally ineffective at a range of three foot at closer.

Pressure test the attack scenario and you will realise its a waste of time.

Soon as you swing it they run in stab you multiple times game over.

Cricket bats are lot better with a few proper cricket balls just leave the bat indoors!

Just remember that playing cricket at night wont wash with the Police as an excuse for feeding idiots cricket balls lol.

 

Hi Leonie

 

Your profile is anonimous so I have no idea of your age or life experience, are you a Social worker ?

It is sad but also very true that there are ( a minoirity ) of scumbags out there to whom reasoning is useless and I am afraid you have to fight fire with fire. Trouble on the towpath is very rare but at times being polite is of no use. Ten years ago cruising thro Wigan with a very polite very good friend of mine on his boat we were confronted by a gang of yobs stood on a low bridge near one of the locks

they were being arsey and throwing small stones at us. My friend who is from Oxfordshire politely asked them in a far too nice way to refrain from doing so and tried to reason with them. I was inside my boat at the time I AM NOT a violent person but was for a lot of years a pc in a very rough area of Yorkshire so my life experience is somewhat different to my friends. I went up with my large dog on a lead explained to them the facts of life and got back ( Sorry mate we were just having a bit of fun ) so to speak. With that they left and all was well.

I hate all violence but I am sorry to say that in these times and this world on a very odd occasion playing the ostrich simply will not work.

 

To add to this IM sure as PC you know as well as anyone who has worked in security that drunk people have a high pain threshhold and cant be reasoned with unless they are so drunk they cant walk of course!

So this presents even more danger in my experience as you have to use real heavy force to defend yourself.

Just recently I saw it took 5 Police officers to take down a 5'8'' drunk guy.

 

Its like when you hear about the woman being mugged so she chases the mugger catches up then realises she dont have the skills to deal with the mugger and then gets battered.

 

I hear what some people say about not worrying as it only attracts violence into your life but its better to be prepared and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Things do happen and thats a fact of life.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Newold

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I found this thread rather interesting.

IM nearly 40 and spent most of my life studying martial arts although they are great, unless trained from a perspective of ''reality'' they are useless.

I have been for about a year now studying and training reality self defence.

 

With your mindset I would seriously recommend going over to Geoff Thompsons website and looking at downloading the video called ''The Fence''

You will find self protection has nothing what so ever to do with engaging physically with someone.

Even then you wil be suprised at what you should be doing to protect yourself rather than trying to slog it out with them.

 

I know the kind of things you mention are not nice to experience if and when they may happen but whipping out a gun is going to end up with you in jail.

Anything you do use must be incidental and not something like a baseball bat, a nice long maglite for example is perfect as its a torch!

 

You will be suprised to know that after watching Geoff's video that you can preemptively attack someone to prevent them from commiting an offence opon your person by law if you feel you your loved ones or your property are in danger.

The only thing that worries me is somone actually getting in the boat to carry on an attack which after shooting them with an air rifle is pretty damn certain to happen as all an air rifle will do is cheese them off seriously lol.

 

If you ever do attack someone defending yourself never speak to the Police other than through a formal statement with a legal representative.

You have the right to remain silent remember becasue what you do say ''will'' be used against you.

Its what you say you did that matters as opposed to what you did unless law can prove it!

 

Learn some reality self defence so you can realistically handle the kind of situations you fear.

Cameras are great especially at night when you use the flash the person just stops in their tracks blinded then happy days, slap bang wollop whoops!

But then on a dark towpath why go out and put yourself possibly at more risk.

The boat is a lovely big lump of steel between you and your attacker so use it as a shield!

I know of other boaters who return the favour with a fishing catapult to the brick throwers works a treat apparanetly!

 

As a martial artist with black belts in Tae Kwon Do and Freestyle Karate (and also having trained in weapons based systems) I can only agree with this post.

 

If you are concerned about personal safety then I would recommend any of Geoff Thompsons books or videos. They are as applicable to the towpath as they are to the street.

[Leonie]

Hi Leonie

 

Your profile is anonimous so I have no idea of your age or life experience, are you a Social worker ?

It is sad but also very true that there are ( a minoirity ) of scumbags out there to whom reasoning is useless and I am afraid you have to fight fire with fire. Trouble on the towpath is very rare but at times being polite is of no use. Ten years ago cruising thro Wigan with a very polite very good friend of mine on his boat we were confronted by a gang of yobs stood on a low bridge near one of the locks

they were being arsey and throwing small stones at us. My friend who is from Oxfordshire politely asked them in a far too nice way to refrain from doing so and tried to reason with them. I was inside my boat at the time I AM NOT a violent person but was for a lot of years a pc in a very rough area of Yorkshire so my life experience is somewhat different to my friends. I went up with my large dog on a lead explained to them the facts of life and got back ( Sorry mate we were just having a bit of fun ) so to speak. With that they left and all was well.

I hate all violence but I am sorry to say that in these times and this world on a very odd occasion playing the ostrich simply will not work.

 

 

Trust me, I have enough age and life experience to have an opinion. Or am I missing your point behind those questions?

[mrsmelly]

Trust me, I have enough age and life experience to have an opinion. Or am I missing your point behind those questions?

 

Hi Leonie

 

No you are missing nothing I was just meaning it is hard to evaluate a persons opinion when you dont know if they are a 12 year old still at school or a retired 60 something who had a varied and eventfull life !

The social worker reference was just that having met many ( Some very good ) some lived in a world of make believe were fighting fire with fire was never right which of course we ALL know is nonsense or we wouldnt be able to enjoy the freedom that you and I have today.

[Leonie]

Hi Leonie

 

No you are missing nothing I was just meaning it is hard to evaluate a persons opinion when you dont know if they are a 12 year old still at school or a retired 60 something who had a varied and eventfull life !

The social worker reference was just that having met many ( Some very good ) some lived in a world of make believe were fighting fire with fire was never right which of course we ALL know is nonsense or we wouldnt be able to enjoy the freedom that you and I have today.

 

Thanks for answering and clarifying. I'm not a Social Worker you'll be relieved to hear and am somewhere in between 12 and 60 on the wrong side of 30 I grew up in working class suburb of suburban Sydney. I've travelled most of the world on my own or with someone I've met along the way and have been living along the towpath in and around Central London for the best part of almost 4 years now.

 

I don't for a minute think anti-social behaviour should be ignored and am usually the first in to try and defuse a situation or do what I can to protect another person/their property. On the other hand, I think it's very dangerous to start talking about having a BB gun (etc) to hand should trouble kick off.

[mrsmelly]

Thanks for answering and clarifying. I'm not a Social Worker you'll be relieved to hear and am somewhere in between 12 and 60 on the wrong side of 30 I grew up in working class suburb of suburban Sydney. I've travelled most of the world on my own or with someone I've met along the way and have been living along the towpath in and around Central London for the best part of almost 4 years now.

 

I don't for a minute think anti-social behaviour should be ignored and am usually the first in to try and defuse a situation or do what I can to protect another person/their property. On the other hand, I think it's very dangerous to start talking about having a BB gun (etc) to hand should trouble kick off.

 

[Newold]

Trust me, I have enough age and life experience to have an opinion. Or am I missing your point behind those questions?

To be fair Leonie your comment ''I believe he is a liability if he uses a weapon to fend off drunk or obnoxious youths/trouble makers.''

is not really backed with evidence of you having experience of such a scenario.

I have no desire to disrespect you with this observation I just find the comment you made to be a bit sweeping really.

I respect the idea of him being armed is not nice and could possibly inflame the situation but what if its past that ''go onon your bike vibe'' ? I suspect he feels the prospect of these people stamping on his head over and over again isnt nice either and it happens a lot.

Have you ever been alone down a canal faced with drunk youths or anywhere for that matter abusing you?

The level of violence those youths will use against you will be life changing.

I certainly dont condone BB Guns but I dont think its unreasonable to be armed in some sort of way incase.

Only a clown would go to a gun fight with a water pistol if you get my meaning.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Newold

[Leonie]

Have you ever been alone down a canal faced with drunk youths or anywhere for that matter abusing you?

 

Of course. Several times. I've had them leaping on the roof and smashing my plants about in the middle of the night. Weapons would have escalated any and all of those situations and I stand by my sweeping statement I'm pleased to hear you have desire to 'disrespect me' with your comment. Why should a difference of opinion be seen as disrespecful I wonder?

[Newold]

Of course. Several times. I've had them leaping on the roof and smashing my plants about in the middle of the night. Weapons would have escalated any and all of those situations and I stand by my sweeping statement I'm pleased to hear you have desire to 'disrespect me' with your comment. Why should a difference of opinion be seen as disrespecful I wonder?

So the you go!

It is a sweeping statement not backed by little experience.

A one off occasion of people jumping on your roof is not a line in the sand.

How did you deal with the situation please describe it more.

 

Personally in all these kinds of circumstances avoidence is best but when a situation passes that other action needs to be taken to protect oneself and property.

A lady on her own down a canal with youths on her roof is a bad place to be without armed protection.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Newold

[Newold]

Take a female Police officer if threatened and alone by more than one attacker she will draw her weapon and strike.

This may esculate it may not but if she does nothing to protect herself she will become a victim.

What happens the next time those youths decide they dont want the flowers on the outside of your boat they want the ones on the inside.

If they thought you were a screaming raving mad woman who battered their shins the last time they wont come back for more.

But at the end of the day if you feel your judgement has served you well than thats fine for you but its not fair to judge others circumstances by the same level as you dont know how serious the threat is to the individual.

Hence reasonable force.

[Leonie]

So the you go!

It is a sweeping statement not backed by little experience.

A one off occasion of people jumping on your roof is not a line in the sand.

How did you deal with the situation please describe it more.

 

Personally in all these kinds of circumstances avoidence is best but when a situation passes that other action needs to be taken to protect oneself and property.

A lady on her own down a canal with youths on her roof is a bad place to be without armed protection.

 

Umm you've gone off on one there a bit mate. Your interpreation of my response to your post doesn't really bear out. I don't engage with people riling up for a fight so you'll have to dream up your own horror stories about 'ladies on canals'.

[nb Innisfree]

Bottom line is unless you keep a firearm illegally then the only real defence against an unprovoked and unexpected attack from someone with a knife or gun is safety in numbers i.e. the odds of you being the target are very small and those odds can be reduced by your living habits. The police don't have the resources to look after you as an individual only as part of the population. Of course a prison sentence for just illegally owning a firearm apart from shooting someone in self defence is better than being dead. It's a bit of a conundrum is it not?

[Guest wanted]

I wonderd how long it would take before 'yobs' turned in 'youths' age is not important, being bad is being bad,any age. Let's not drive the wedge further with a blanket blame on young people eh?

[Leonie]

I wonderd how long it would take before 'yobs' turned in 'youths' age is not important, being bad is being bad,any age. Let's not drive the wedge further with a blanket blame on young people eh?

 

I agree with you and sadly I think it was ME who turned the yobs into youths LOL argh. My negative experience with drunken people on the twopath have all been youth oriented... in my defence your honour

Edited December 16, 2010 by Leonie

[Newold]

Umm you've gone off on one there a bit mate. Your interpreation of my response to your post doesn't really bear out. I don't engage with people riling up for a fight so you'll have to dream up your own horror stories about 'ladies on canals'.

I have not gone off on anything.

If you think leaving youths to smash up your property while you sit inside suits you then happy days.

Defending oneself has nothing to do with fighting so again for you to hols such an opinion reflects your lack of experience.

To suggest people like myself who deal with violence for a living dream up stories is immature and also relects your lack of experience.

IM not here to win an argument or be right or wrong facts are facts.

Stay safe.

 

Bottom line is unless you keep a firearm illegally then the only real defence against an unprovoked and unexpected attack from someone with a knife or gun is safety in numbers i.e. the odds of you being the target are very small and those odds can be reduced by your living habits. The police don't have the resources to look after you as an individual only as part of the population. Of course a prison sentence for just illegally owning a firearm apart from shooting someone in self defence is better than being dead. It's a bit of a conundrum is it not?

Or a trained dog.

[Chertsey]

When I (small female) lived on a boat on the towpath in the middle of Huddersfield, near a pub, I always reckoned that the best protection was to lock myself in. A solid steel box with only small windows feels a safer place than a house.

 

If you start thinking in terms of using weapons to defend yourself, then you run the risk not only of doing damage and getting yourself into trouble, but more frightening still of having that weapon taken off you and used against you by the erstwile attackers who now feel that they are under threat.

[Heffalump]

I have not gone off on anything.

If you think leaving youths to smash up your property while you sit inside suits you then happy days.

Defending oneself has nothing to do with fighting so again for you to hols such an opinion reflects your lack of experience.

To suggest people like myself who deal with violence for a living dream up stories is immature and also relects your lack of experience.

IM not here to win an argument or be right or wrong facts are facts.

Stay safe.

 

 

Or a trained dog.

 

 

Can you define "youths" please?

[cotswoldsman]

Wow having read all those stories I have decided I must have led a very quite life!!!! I have lived all over the world and travelled all over the world, I have now covered most of the system and moored where I like and in all that time and travel have never had anything happen that has made me feel I need to react with violence. I have been in situations where it would have been easy to react with some form of violence but felt it much easier to just walk away or do nothing. When I set up a business in Moscow 13 years ago I was told by everyone I was mad it was a dangerous thing to do I never once had a problem and enjoyed every minute yes I was threatened a few times yes did business with people carrying guns, unlike a lot of other foreigners working in Moscow at that time I refused to let my driver carry a gun.

[Guest wanted]

S'alright leonie, I have no doubt that some young people cause trouble, just feel bound to stick up for the majority who are good uns! As you were!

[matty40s]

..it's a posh yoof.

 

on the roof.

 

 

sorry Richard, I'm not doing very well today am I.

[Newold]

Can you define "youths" please?

Why would you need me too?

Google perhaps?

 

..it's a posh yoof.

 

on the roof.

 

 

sorry Richard, I'm not doing very well today am I.

LMAO love it!

[Heffalump]

Why would you need me too?

Google perhaps?

 

Well perhaps you'd provide me with details of where your boat is moored, or your address, I'd better try to keep up with this stereotype, and what better place?

 

Would you take a different course of action if it wasn't a youth attacking your property? Why make the distinction?

[cotswoldsman]

Well perhaps you'd provide me with details of where your boat is moored, or your address, I'd better try to keep up with this stereotype, and what better place?

 

Would you take a different course of action if it wasn't a youth attacking your property? Why make the distinction?

 

Heffalump unfotunatly there are a lot of bigoted people in this world that feel happier by blaming everything on a certain section of society.