Seating

[stuart]

Hi all.

 

Does anyone have plans on how to build fixed seating for a canal boat? Being a smallish boat I need to build seating that can also double up as a bed (double if possible). I've got a space of about 6ft x 4ft to fill will an "L" shaped seat with table.

 

I've already built one attempt which works but is not very comfy for sitting on - can anyone suggest alternatives?

Edited January 16, 2006 by stuart

[Richard Bustens]

The normal problem is that people build the back rest upright and a little backward angle will make the world of diferance.

[Guest]

The normal problem is that people build the back rest upright and a little backward angle will make the world of diferance.

We did something similar and agree that the backward angle makes the difference. Since it has seated us in comfort for years, we started by measuring our sofa at home and using these dimensions for a guide. The base is made from lined mdf and makes an excellent locker (we were going to use a sofa bed but this storage space was too good to lose). A sheet of plywood quickly makes it into a double bed, and the plywood stores behind the back when not in use. The cushions were made and covered by a local upholsterer. If you would like to pm me I would be happy to provide a couple of photos and a sketch.

[DHutch]

The normal problem is that people build the back rest upright and a little backward angle will make the world of diferance.

Yeah, thats very true.

- Our (fixed) "sofa bed" in the galley has a slope of about 4/5" over about 2ft.

 

Also, from my point of view anything under 6'6" doesnt not constitute a bed.

- Our aft cabin is 5'8" and its total joke, it my have been fine 10years ago, but now even my 12yo brother has outgrown it, and he grew nearly 2" in the last 6month

- So he now has to sleep on the floor of the kitchen area, on a campbed, for the sake of 10" of boat lengh, which tbh, could easly been taken out off the galley as the design stage. Masive oversight on my grandads part, expecially as him and all his three son are over 6"2' (and even my mum is over 5"8')

 

 

Daniel

[Denis R]

Daniel, I agree with you. Size really does matter here. My tug's being built by Peter Nicholls and when I showed him my sketches he took one look at my son and told me my idea for the berth in the back cabin would be way too small for him when he's finished growing. We've stolen the necessary inches from the front cabin to get the necessary size and make sure we don't suffer your problem....

Regarding the backrest, I think that insufficient seat depth is the driver of an upright back. Make the seat depth comfortable enough to getsome rake in the backrest and don't forget to allow for some decent cushioning?

[ChrisPy]

getting seating right is a very subtle issue. I have a bad back (not unusual) and like good lumbar support. I find in any furniture store that 9 out of 10 sofas or chairs are total rubbish to sit in. So I will be looking for (and trying before I buy) a good sofa bed. Getting it just right first time with a combination of plywood sheets and multi-purpose cushions would be exceedingly difficult for me. If anyone has a better solution I would be interested.

[stuart]

Thanks for your ideas!

 

I did angle the back rest so that seems okay, the major problem I had was judging how thick/hard to buy a piece of foam to cover it was.

 

The seat is 10cm thick and v.hard foam - works fine, but I got the back rest the same and its too thick and too hard!!

 

I think 6cm would be about right of a medium foam density.

[DHutch]

The cusions in our gallery are "proper filled" cusions, im not sure whats in them, but its not foam, certianly not normal form.

- There both the the same, and get swaped quite often (ie, when i gets bad into the bed, etc.

 

The ones in the aft cabin are normal polyurethane foam, 4inches thick, covered in extra thick high-grade PVC "leather" cloth, without buttons, or beading.

- There very good, but as the cusions are diffent widths anyway to fitt the boat, if was doing it again i would have the back cussion made a little softer. Although that might affect how good it was to sleep on, i dont sleep there anyway!

 

 

Daniel

[Pirate]

I`m with Chris on this, I`ll be buying the absolute best I can get in and what looks good too.

 

The problem (IMO) with fixed furniture ie/ settees is you just dont seem to be able to lounge around on them and be comfertable.

 

Since I`ll be liveing aboard I will want to comfy

[Amicus]

I’ve done a fair bit of repair work in mobile homes, holiday park stuff, (millions of 'em hereabouts), I think the built-in settees in them things are very comfortable, so if you know anybody owns one………take a tape measure.

Also, you may be able to buy the squabs from the makers!

[John Orentas]

It is not enough just to rake the back of the seat, the base should be angled too. I prefer to upholster plywood components directly without using loose cushions. For best results you should also laminate the foam interior, 4 inch thick firm (black) with 1.5 inch soft (white) glued to the top, by doing this it will feel like a proper upholstered seat and is also the correct density for the dual role as mattress.

 

I like to button the seating too, even deep buttoning is not so difficult, I developed a very effective method of doing it. I can elaborate if anyone is interested.

Edited January 25, 2006 by John Orentas

[Moley]

I developed a very effective method of doing it. I can elaborate if anyone is interested.

 

Please continue, though that ain't going to be my department, I'll do woodwork, wiring & plumbing, OCM's in charge of soft furnishings, but we'd welcome some instruction.

[DHutch]

I like to button the seating too, even deep buttoning is not so difficult, I developed a very effective method of doing it. I can elaborate if anyone is interested.

We had a otterman (sp?) which was "deep buttoned" (like headrests of beds)

- The top was 1/2 inch chip board and broken so i took all the fabric etc of and replaced the board. (with 3/4" kronofloor)

 

It just had a peice of 2" foam with 3/4" holes in it where the "buttons" where and the the buttons where just cloth covered uphostary nails/studs nailed into the plywood inline with the holes in the foam.

 

Im not sure it thats what john ment, but it looked pritty good. Although i wouldnt do that one a NB.

 

 

Daniel

[Sir Nibble]

For the seating I have built I have used 9mm plywood as a base with slots cut through it widthways at 50mm intervals. This leaves "slats" which have the effect of providing a sprung base. Strength is restored by fitting a timber frame.

[Farey]

It is not enough just to rake the back of the seat, the base should be angled too. I prefer to upholster plywood components directly without using loose cushions. For best results you should also laminate the foam interior, 4 inch thick firm (black) with 1.5 inch soft (white) glued to the top, by doing this it will feel like a proper upholstered seat and is also the correct density for the dual role as mattress.

 

 

So what should the rake angles be for the base and back? A side view with dimensions would be useful.

 

How do you upholster the plywood directly? Do you just glue it to the base?

 

Chris Farey

[stuart]

How do you upholster the plywood directly? Do you just glue it to the base?

Chris Farey

 

I suppose you can use the ply as the base and then directly fix the material covering to the ply - staple gun?

[John Orentas]

Molely / Farey.

 

It is a long time since I did my last boat but each application will vary anyway, the best way is to go on a few pup crawls with a tape measure and note-book, (tough but someone has to do) measure the fixed seating you will find one that is just the right dimensions for you, measure heights depths and angles.

 

I tried furniture shops but they are never appropriate somehow, to big, to soft, to thick.

 

Having owned caravans I decided early on that I would sacrifice light weight and ease of deployment for robustness and comfort. I have built a few 6 feet + double bed / settees based on 1/2" ply (doesn't need a posh veneer) and 3 or 4" foam firm black with 1" soft white bonded to it. The complete unit of course needs to be the correct seat height, back height and depth, you must have those essential angles too. It always seemed to work out for my boats that the bottom edge of the back sits on the top rear of the seat when in seating mode though the seat can extend a couple of inches further back.

 

The base is a 3 sided open top and bottom box fixed in position, I never bothered with draws and things, pillows and sleeping bags only are stored in the base.

 

After your design stage is complete cut the ply boards and buy the foam cut to size. If you are going to shallow 'button' them (and I would recommend it) work out the positions and drill the ply at this stage. Glue the black foam to the ply and white foam to the black, better if the foam is 1/2" bigger than the ply all round, the corners of the ply should be rounded off.

 

Fabric. It may take ages to get the fabric you like, very much subject to current fashion I am fortunate that I live close to textile areas, there are warehouse places, but it is still not easy. Most important get the heaviest fabric you can find, colours are more important than pattern and don't be afraid of old fashioned stuff I like primary colours when I can get them. But you will find yourself buying not quite what you had in mind.

 

The only sewing involved, you need an open box, the size of the plywood and 4 sides of 6 or 8 inches high you need to sew the 4 sides together, round off the corners. An ordinary domestic sewing machine works perfectly well though with a needle size to suit the heavy sewing yarn.

 

Cover the foam and ply base with either stockinette or the latest equivalent, this allows the fabric to slide over the foam. Buy or borrow a hand stapler, makes fixing the fabric much easier but you also need a load of round head 1/2" upholstery tacks. You can now start fixing the fabric to the ply, put a bit of tension on the fabric, just enough to make the sharp corners of the foam disappear.

 

Staple all around on the bottom surface of the ply with an inch or so turn-in of the fabric. Some guide lines on the fabric may help to keep everything symmetrical. You will need to form 3 or 4 pleats at the corners. Go over the stapling with neatly spaced upholstery tacks.

 

Buttoning; Best to find a friendly upholsterer (he may make them for you) or scour the markets for suitable buttons. There are DIY kits including the tool for fitting the fabric but many tend to be small and more suitable for clothing. The traditional way to fit buttons is to use heavy twine but I could never find suitable stuff. Long nylon tie raps are the best thing to use but you need two holes in the ply.

 

Thats about it !

 

The most difficult part is the mechanical design of the seat and back supports in both seat and bed mode, I have never done it the same way twice. Inevitably though to go to bed mode the seat must slide back a few inches at the same time going into a horizontal position. The seat back will need to hook onto the front of the base and have a drop down panel to support the outer edge of the bed onto the floor.

 

Next instalment, Deep Buttoning.

[stuart]

Thanks John. A good insight !