Paint problems

[Ads]

Hey

 

Was wondering if anyone else has experienced this with this colour?

 

Ive painted the a large part of my boat in the Craftmaster Graphite Grey and have found the side that has most exposure to sunlight has started going flat very qucikly.

 

After the first year out in the open there was nearly no gloss to the gunnels and bow and stern decks in May this year i repainted them again with another 2 coats they had a good gloss for a couple of months but now at the end of the summer it is going flat again.

 

Due to the depths of my mooring i cannot turn my boat around so one side always gets the sun the other side still has a good shine.

 

Is it just this colour? The black and even the red! hasnt fadded as much.

 

Ads

Edited September 28, 2010 by Ads

[kitman]

Hey

 

Was wondering if anyone else has experienced this with this colour?

 

Ive painted the a large part of my boat in the Craftmaster Graphite Grey and have found the side that has most exposure to sunlight has started going flat very qucikly.

 

After the first year out in the open there was nearly no gloss to the gunnels and bow and stern decks in May this year i repainted them again with another 2 coats they had a good gloss for a couple of months but now at the end of the summer it is going flat again.

 

Due to the depths of my mooring i cannot turn my boat around so one side always gets the sun the other side still has a good shine.

 

Is it just this colour? The black and even the red! hasnt fadded as much.

 

Ads

 

What grade of sand paper do you use when sanding the black?

 

Also was the black thinned in anyway?

 

And what time of day was it done?

 

Cheers

[Ads]

Well inbetween coats i just use a scotch cloth to give abit of key. I did use a dash of PPA and most times i painted was the middle of the day and undercover. but both times i have painted its been warmish. i know not to paint late it the afternoon beacuse of the moisture in the air.

 

Its not the black thats the problem thats fine, its the Grey.

 

Ads

[NB Alnwick]

Well inbetween coats i just use a scotch cloth to give abit of key. I did use a dash of PPA and most times i painted was the middle of the day and undercover. but both times i have painted its been warmish. i know not to paint late it the afternoon beacuse of the moisture in the air.

 

Its not the black thats the problem thats fine, its the Grey.

 

Ads

 

This is a bit worrying because I have six litres of Graphite Grey waiting to go on Alnwick - although I like it flat . . .

[Ads]

Its a Great Colour and the bits that arent exposed to alot of sunlight are fine its just the bits that are!...

 

Ads

[WotEver]

See the last paragraph of the first post in this thread.

 

I know the guy that Phil mentions at the end of that paragraph, and yes, he still doesn't believe Phil was right. His boat is grey.

 

Tony

[LEO]

Hi,

 

The grey paint on my boat, produced for the 'Trade' goes flat and 'chalks' unless it is polished regularly, it is wise to use a shampoo rather than washing up liquid.

 

Looks great when polished though.

 

Leo.

[Ads]

See the last paragraph of the first post in this thread.

 

I know the guy that Phil mentions at the end of that paragraph, and yes, he still doesn't believe Phil was right. His boat is grey.

 

Tony

 

 

 

Its funny you should say that because i have actually been thinking about clear coating it ive done that for the smaller parts like my hatches etc but i wasnt sure if it was very common on plain paint as i know its dont on scumbled roofs.

 

Ads

[bag 'o' bones]

When you say 'gone flat' I assume you mean the surface has gone slightly white and lost its gloss.

Unfourtunatly in my experience ALL oil based enamel type paints however good their quality or how expertly applied begin to loose their gloss and colour depth after a couple of years when exposed to the elements.

[Adam Brown]

Ads

 

Give me a call at Craftmaster tomorrow with your info and I'll have a chat with Phil to see what he thinks is wrong. I'm sure we can find out whats going on

 

Adam

[Gibbo]

Watching with interest because mine has done exactly the same thing. With the same colour. Again, only on the side mostly in the sun.

[Ads]

Ads

 

Give me a call at Craftmaster tomorrow with your info and I'll have a chat with Phil to see what he thinks is wrong. I'm sure we can find out whats going on

 

Adam

 

 

Hey Adam

 

Thanks will call you tomz.

 

Ads

[Batavia]

We have had a similar experience.

 

Last year we painted the whole cabin on Batavia with Graphite Grey. The sides, which have been waxed and are mainly in the shade, are fine, wheres the roof (which was never waxed because we have been intending to add another coat for the past 12 months) has gone much "flatter" than I would have expected. It was painted under reasonable conditions (albeit by a non-expert).

 

However, as the colour is excellent, we will re-paint the roof next spring and wax it from the outset.

 

Chris G

[Adam Brown]

After me and more importantly Phil talking to Ads about the paint problems we have come to the following conclusions

 

Graphite Grey until now had not thrown up any problems that we had been aware of (I had spoke to Ads about this earlier in the year). Its a very old formulation from another manufacturer and keeps to the basic principles of grey colourmatching - use only a certain four tints if you can. We are confident that there are not any major issues with the colour.

 

However Ads has had a problem as I believe has Leo although I'm not sure if thats with our product. We believe Ads problem to be isolated. As Adina has a South facing mooring without any possibility of rotation it gets the worst of sun 'properly blasted' as Phil put it whilst the other side gets nothing. This can cause very uneven affects in the paintwork and we take this as a contributing factor. Its worth pointing out that there is UV light even on days that aren't sunny so this will add to the problem

 

The paint was also applied in a very hot climate. Phil will probably expain it better if he pops up on here soon (not sure if Scotlands solitary laptop is due in his area any time soon...) basically he reckons solvent emtrampment (probably the wrong spelling) is also quite possible. Ads has said that after painting the panels got very hot and that he could feel the heet radiating off of them this also would not help. Usually Coach Enamel doesnt have too much problem with heat (hence its widespread use on traction engines) however the heat is usually coming from the other direction and being buffered by the metal not the paint acting as the buffer

 

We believe the problem in this instance would be best solved with the application of our own Clear Varnish which is 98% UV Reflective - this will deffinatley be a major help in countering the effects of the sun. (Please see the link earlier in the thread about varnish)

 

So we do not believe there is any problem with Graphite Grey but in this instance a number of unusualy combined factors have probably caused the loss of gloss in Adina

 

@ NB Alnwick Phil says don't worry about your 6 tins they will be fine

[charles123]

I have chosen RAL7024 Graphite Grey for the sides of my boat, although it wont be Craftmaster but will be HMG enamel. The possible fading is a concern so I will look out for more information on this regarding this shade of gray, I was not aware that gray was prone to fading (I know red is in general and Craftmaster raddle red in particular)

The issue related to loss of gloss cant be associated with the colour that must be something to do with the paint, how its been thinned applied or the conditions

 

Charles

[Doorman]

Ads

 

Give me a call at Craftmaster tomorrow with your info and I'll have a chat with Phil to see what he thinks is wrong. I'm sure we can find out whats going on

 

Adam

 

 

Hi Adam,

 

Sorry to but in on this topic. Our boat has been sprayed with a polyurethane two-pack finish, what paint would you recommend

to use with an air brush to carry out touch ups? 'One Spot' enamels has been mentioned by some.

 

Mike

[Adam Brown]

I have chosen RAL7024 Graphite Grey for the sides of my boat, although it wont be Craftmaster but will be HMG enamel. The possible fading is a concern so I will look out for more information on this regarding this shade of gray, I was not aware that gray was prone to fading (I know red is in general and Craftmaster raddle red in particular)

The issue related to loss of gloss cant be associated with the colour that must be something to do with the paint, how its been thinned applied or the conditions

 

Charles

 

I've seen one or two posts about Raddle Red but not heard anything directly and we do sell a lot of it - its one of our most popular colours. Considering its mainly used of roofs it doesn't surprise me that it can fade faster than the rest of the paintwork. Raddle Red has the same tints in it as Graphite Grey just at different ratio. All paint fades especially if its taking a battering from the sun every day.

 

The RAL7024 is very close to our own Graphite Grey just a minor difference in the formulation. Grey's aren't generally known for fading (maybe lighter ones)and this one hasn't its just lost its gloss for reasons mentioned above

 

@ Doorman - do you mean One Shot? I have no experience with two pack so I can't really comment but I'll ask at HMG for you and see what they recommend.

[Doorman]

@ Doorman - do you mean One Shot? I have no experience with two pack so I can't really comment but I'll ask at HMG for you and see what they recommend.

 

 

Cheers Adam.

 

Yes, I meant One Shot.

 

Having read this thread, I clicked onto the link to a previous one posted by Phil, explaining paint application etc.,

I was particularly interested in his comment regarding using varnish as a protecting coat against Uva damage. I'd asked our boat builder, whether it was prudent to do this over our sign writing in order to prolong its durability, whereby, he frowned upon the idea.

 

It seems to make sense to me, as I've previously spent 23 years in the car manufacturing industry, 14 of those in the paint shop, during which the advent of clear coat final finish application became very popular. It would be a shame to see such fine 'art work' fade, due to the harmful sun rays that are ever present, even in our grey day climate!

 

Mike

Edited October 1, 2010 by Doorman

[bag 'o' bones]

Hi Adam,

 

Sorry to but in on this topic. Our boat has been sprayed with a polyurethane two-pack finish, what paint would you recommend

to use with an air brush to carry out touch ups? 'One Spot' enamels has been mentioned by some.

 

Mike

 

Why not use 2 pack? Or a single pack acrylic? Widely available from paint factors.

[Phil Speight]

I've seen one or two posts about Raddle Red but not heard anything directly and we do sell a lot of it - its one of our most popular colours. Considering its mainly used of roofs it doesn't surprise me that it can fade faster than the rest of the paintwork. Raddle Red has the same tints in it as Graphite Grey just at different ratio. All paint fades especially if its taking a battering from the sun every day.

 

The RAL7024 is very close to our own Graphite Grey just a minor difference in the formulation. Grey's aren't generally known for fading (maybe lighter ones)and this one hasn't its just lost its gloss for reasons mentioned above

 

@ Doorman - do you mean One Shot? I have no experience with two pack so I can't really comment but I'll ask at HMG for you and see what they recommend.

Yo ! I highjacked a passing computer - actually I am once more in the world`s most unlikely internet cafe. All colours fade but some are worse than others. Graphite Grey is not bad in this regard ( as we would expect knowing the pigments that make the colur up ) but neither is it absolutely the best. As a grey it is good , as a colour in general it is bettr than many but not as good as some . Our honestly held opinion is that in this particular case circumstances have dictated that the paint has been subjected to excessive exposure to ultra -violet light by dint of the boat being left for extended periods on a south facing mooring , possibly made worse by the conditions to which it was subjected before it had chance to start curing ( excessive heat which my well have caused the outer surface to go hard dry too quickly ) has caused the paint to fade prematurely. Without seeing it I`d guess that the paint isn`t "chalking" as such.

 

The Raddle Red thing is interesting. Raddle initially dries with a distinct sheen. However, as it cures over a period it takes on it`s intended satin finish. This is very close to matt and appears lighter than it does on initial application. Try this; paint a one foot square board in a dark undercoat. Once dry paint half of it with a full gloss varnish. That half will finish up looking much darker than the unvarnished portion. Raddle does fade , of course it does - under the "all paint fades" rule -

it also holds water and pollution on it`s surface for longer than a gloss would which doesn`t help. That said given the nature and design purpose of the product it has always performed perfectly well.

 

I`m replying to Adam here - didn`t mean to - it`s just my usual computer weakness - the reply is general rather than specific.

To add a little Highland piquance the ampersand key produces inverted commas, the inverted comma key produces an ampersand and there is a spaniel licking my trouser leg.I have finished the uphill fencing for the horses and I could regale you with tales of sliding all the way back down said hill on the soaking wet grass while clinging on to 24` plank, a bag of nails and staples , a hammer and the rapidly re-coiling end of a roll of wire mesh. I won`t - because I have yet to recover my composure.

Back to England soon to write some boats. I hope it`s drier down there.

Phil

Edited October 1, 2010 by Phil Speight

[dave moore]

Hi all

I'd like to add my twopennorth to the varnishing issue. As a long time practising signwriter/ boat decorator, I;m often asked about varnishing written panels.

My reply is along the lines of "It's like marriage...you don't do it wantonly, recklessly etc...and you inherit a responsibility to maintain the varnished surface, optimally with an annual recoat whether it looks as if it needs it or not."

 

Varnishing will certainly preserve a panel virtually indefinitely but it must be maintained. Any scratches will allow water ingress and subsequent flaking/ failure, which is why you see the odd varnished panel in atrocious condition. By all means add a coat of varnish (not polyeurothane, preferably Craftmasters own) but be prepared to look after it. A boat I wrote almost 20 years ago is still looking good, if a little yellowed with age - but that's the result of loving care by a conscientious owner. I haven't done Resolute's panels, but do keep them polished, again with Craftmaters own.

 

Phil...you're staying soon....I will have a decent dram in the house this time!!

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Doorman]

Hi all

I'd like to add my twopennorth to the varnishing issue. As a long time practising signwriter/ boat decorator, I;m often asked about varnishing written panels.

My reply is along the lines of "It's like marriage...you don't do it wantonly, recklessly etc...and you inherit a responsibility to maintain the varnished surface, optimally with an annual recoat whether it looks as if it needs it or not."

 

Varnishing will certainly preserve a panel virtually indefinitely but it must be maintained. Any scratches will allow water ingress and subsequent flaking/ failure, which is why you see the odd varnished panel in atrocious condition. By all means add a coat of varnish (not polyeurothane, preferably Craftmasters own) but be prepared to look after it. A boat I wrote almost 20 years ago is still looking good, if a little yellowed with age - but that's the result of loving care by a conscientious owner. I haven't done Resolute's panels, but do keep them polished, again with Craftmaters own.

 

Phil...you're staying soon....I will have a decent dram in the house this time!!

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

 

 

Thanks Dave,

 

I think I'll wait until next spring and then apply a coat of Craftmaster's varnish to the signwritten panels. Don't mind the nurturing aspect as I'm now retired and the task will keep me out of the pub!

 

Mike

 

Why not use 2 pack? Or a single pack acrylic? Widely available from paint factors.

 

Hi Bones,

 

Are they available in small quantities as in enamels?

 

Mike

[Ads]

Thanks to Adam & Phil for a qucik response to this issue and being very helpfull.

 

As Adam says im going to Clear coat all the grey parts of the boat and hope this will protect the paint for a few more years and restore the gloss.

 

Cheers

 

Ads

[bag 'o' bones]

 

Hi Bones,

 

Are they available in small quantities as in enamels?

 

Mike

 

Smallest size is half a litre by the tin.

 

You can even have the paint put in a spray can either in two pack which lasts a fair while in the can premixed or air dry single pack which last almost forever as long as you clean the spray heads (or buy new ones)

 

Seems a bit a step in the wrong direction to paint the boat in 2 pack and then touch it up with enamel!

[Doorman]

Smallest size is half a litre by the tin.

 

You can even have the paint put in a spray can either in two pack which lasts a fair while in the can premixed or air dry single pack which last almost forever as long as you clean the spray heads (or buy new ones)

 

Seems a bit a step in the wrong direction to paint the boat in 2 pack and then touch it up with enamel!

 

Cheers,

 

Hopefully, I'll only have to use the enamels for small paint chips rather than large areas. I've used this technique on cars

in the past with success.

 

Mike