TV License

[chudleighval]

Hi

We are new to living aboard and was wondering about a TV license. Is it worth the risk of not having one ? As we only have a c/o address how would we go about it ?

Regards

Val

[magpie patrick]

With difficulty...

 

to comply exactly with the law is nigh on impossible, it depends which loophole you want.

 

Vans with revolving roof racks are pretty much ancient history. They now rely on two things. 98% of households have a TV, and to buy a TV you must give a postcode. IF you have a postal address, and no TV licence, you will be challenged. IF you satisfy that challenge and then buy a TV, you will be challenged again.

 

Chances are, if you already have the TV, and have no home address, you won't be challenged. The other get out is to buy a TV licence in your name for the c/o address (even if it already has a licence under another name). Then if you are challenged, you can show you made every reasonable effort to pay even thought the licence didn't actually cover what you were doing.

 

The TVLA are bastards, they wanted to interview me under police caution for failure to have a licence, even though I had no TV. It took a very pissy letter to them, pointing out a few home truths about the law and their prosecution failure rates, to get them off my back

[bag 'o' bones]

Hi

We are new to living aboard and was wondering about a TV license. Is it worth the risk of not having one ? As we only have a c/o address how would we go about it ?

Regards

Val

 

Personally I wouldn't bother. When was the last time you saw a TV detector van(if they exsist) let alone a chap walking down the towpath with a hand held detector device?

 

In any case even if someone from TV licensing did knock on you door demanding to gain access to 'prove' that you are recieving BBC - receiving being the crux of the argument as you are not legally required to be in possesion of a licence to operate a TV - you are prefectly entitled to tell them to leave you alone. (or something a little stronger). TV licensing 'officials' have no more right than I have to demand entry into a property, unless of course they have a warrant and are accompanied by a police officer (which to my knowledge has never happene

[alan_fincher]

In any case even if someone from TV licensing did knock on you door demanding to gain access to 'prove' that you are recieving BBC - receiving being the crux of the argument.............

Being pedantic, but the licence has nothing to do specifically with BBC.

 

You must have one, even if you never watch the Beep, and stick only to commercial channels.

[NB Alnwick]

Being pedantic, but the licence has nothing to do specifically with BBC.

 

You must have one, even if you never watch the Beep, and stick only to commercial channels.

 

Quite right but the law states that the premises where the apparatus is used must be licensed yet it simply is not possible to buy a licence without a recognised address with a postcode.

 

If one buys a licence using the address of a friend or family member or a PO box, then one is still failing (technically) to licence the actual premises where the apparatus is used but I doubt if any prosecution could succeed under such circumstances.

[Ange]

We bought a TV dongle recently. By law the seller has to take your address and pass it on to the TV licensing people. There was a brief impasse at the checkout when we told them we couldn't give them the address the dongle would be used at as we lived on a boat. I offered them our correspondence address in Kent and they happily accepted this.

[EricMark]

While living in a caravan I also was worried about having a TV licence back in 1990 I did not want to watch TV I wanted it for my computer and when I enquired as to what was required so the TV could be used I hit a brick wall and ended up with a BBC monitor (Colour) and a Black and White TV.

 

I was working on the building of Sizewell "B" and there were hundreds like me and seemed I was only one with licence. I expected to see a detector van as it seemed they would catch a whole load of people and would have been worth while but it never did happen.

 

However when I left that job and let the licence drop I got loads of treating letters in spite of having a colour licence for the home address.

 

The law has since changed and you only need a licence to receive live TV no longer do you need a licence to own a TV.

 

The whole licensing law is full of silly things like "Apparatus for receiving monochrome broadcast TV radio signals" when I went to school was called an aerial out of the coax into TV it is no longer a radio signal but courts still hand out fines and this is the problem it is all done on case law rather than what it says on licence.

 

It seems if the TV has batteries built into the set it does not require a licence so using a laptop to view TV as long as laptop is not plugged into boats supply does not need a licence. I can't see how they can ever work out if it was plugged in? Only it you admit it was plugged in could they really do anything.

 

As to detector vans they can pin point a TV in a block of flats when parked 1/4 mile away and they would have no problem in pin pointing a TV on a boat. But if you are on holiday in a boat and are not using the set at home then your home licence likely covers as it does with a caravan so again unless you admit not having a licence to catch one is very hard. You just give an address as your home where they do have a licence.

 

I am sure the TV guys know this. And just like they never bothered checking us all on the construction workers caravan site likely they feel not worth the hassle checking narrow boats. But if they wanted to they could and saying no to them for access will not help they can still do you without going on your boat. It is all up to giving right answers to their questions.

 

I did get accosted by them once. And luck I was using the TV legally to receive slow scan TV which is not broadcast to a one to one connection and again by luck I had my validation document to hand but I did have to prove it was being used on amateur band and not broadcast. This was back in the days when their equipment was not as good with cathode ray tubes they could tell you what station you were listening to. Not sure now with freeview, sky, and broadband what they can detect. I guess if using broadband to watch live TV they could ask your internet provider but not sure if they keep a record of what you do on line or if they would tell the TV people anyway?

 

I will watch to see if anyone has been done in a narrow boat. For me I would never work without a licence as I have signed to allow the DTI access to my equipment at any time and they can remove my licence at will so it is just not worth me taking a chance. It's not the TV licence but my amateur radio licence that allows them access at any time. Never had a visit and hope I never will.

[Bobbybass]

There was a 'sweep'in the Burton area last month..caught 300... that also netted some boaters. They used a handheld unit for the towpath.

I had a chat some months back with a very helpful guy at TV licensing who told me :

You do not have to have a permanent address and can even license a PO box number. You just tell the customer services dept and they make a note that it is for a boat. I am not on the boat in winter ( I go to Spain and keep warm....what a whimp !!)

He said : you set up a quarterly payment direct debit and then tell them before the next payment is taken and they will cancel it until I return. You will have to pay to the end of the nearest quarter though, but it saves a complete year.

Hope this helps.

 

Bob

[alan_fincher]

Quite right but the law states that the premises where the apparatus is used must be licensed yet it simply is not possible to buy a licence without a recognised address with a postcode.

I'm not totally certain this is true any more.

 

The preferred on-line method of sending you a purchased licence is by e-mail, rather than post.

 

I've just stepped through the process of buying a licence for a boat up until the point you enter payment method.

 

There is an option to say "I don't know the post code of the address where it will be used" and you can enter a "Licensed Address" without specifying one. Additionally you can specifically elect to have all correspondence sent to a different nominated address, (e.g friend or relatives).

 

So, if you really wanted to buy a licence for "Narrow boat Kingfisher, continually cruising the Inland waterways of England and Wales", I can see nothing in the on-line system that would stop you. I clearly didn't want to pay £145.50 to prove the point, but I'm fairly certain this is correct.

 

I'm guessing me imparting this information will not result in a sudden glut of applications for TV licences for narrow boats, though!

[Guest wanted]

I bought a TV recently for watching films (it has a built in dvd player) I got it from argos which I pre ordered on line. when I came to pay, the automated machine asked what my address was and postcode. I asked an argos member of staff what their address was and put that in. It worked and I got the telly. I'm sure they could trace me using my card details but a) I doubt they will bother and even if the do I don't own an antenna.

 

Incidently, about 4 non res boats use my post box and they all have tv licenses, i rekkon i'm over covered by them!

 

now all we need is something worth watching!

 

I've just noticed that if you put a b in a ) you get !

Edited September 3, 2010 by wanted

[MrCJ]

If you just want to watch catchup online you don't have to have a license only need it for programmes that are being broadcast.

 

 

I dont know if this has happened to anyone else's but a few years back I brought a TV gave them the address which was licensed by the house owner. few weeks past got a letter saying that I brought a TV but we notice you do not have a licence and asked for payment, they also cancelled the license of the home owner and stopped collecting their payments from the bank.

[cotswoldsman]

I guess the the boaters that live on boats and do not have a TV licence won't object if I don't bother to buy a BW licence as I do have a TV licence and I think one licence of any kind is plenty for one boat.

[luctor et emergo]

I guess the the boaters that live on boats and do not have a TV licence won't object if I don't bother to buy a BW licence as I do have a TV licence and I think one licence of any kind is plenty for one boat.

 

 

There will be a pint waiting for you in a pub of choice along the Kennet & Avon soon....

 

[carlt]

Don't most people, who break the law, do it because they don't think they'll get caught?

 

I happen to think that road tax, like the TV licence, is stupid and that the countries who have scrapped it have far better road networks, than ours.

 

Until the government comes round to my way of thinking, though, and ring fences fuel tax, for the transport infrastructure, I will continue to buy a tax disc.

 

Likewise, when I was living on a boat, I had a TV licence which was simple to acquire.

[Natalie Graham]

As you can subscribe to watch every National Hockey League game live or on demand why would you want to watch broadcast TV anyway? There's better things to do during the summer when the NHL is taking a break.

 

I have always been baffled by this requirement to have a licence to watch TV programmes over the internet. Surely the requirement is to licence the equipment for receiving the broadcast signal, not to watch the programmes. A computer connected to the internet is not capable of receiving the broadcast signal, so why the need to licence it?

[Athy]

I am surprised to hear that anyone has ever been physically caught by the T.V. Licensing authority. Early this century I had a job which entailed living away from home during the week, in a flat at the school where I was teaching. A few weeks after I moved in, I received a polite letter from the TV Licensors suggesting that I bought a licence.

Well, over the next 18 months I probably got on average one letter per month from them. These gradually increased in severity of tone, from "Thou shalt buy a licence" to "We'll send the boys round if you don't" to "Your balls will drop off if you do not buy a licence in the next 90 seconds", or something along those lines. I did not reply to any of these missives.

Yet not once did anyone, with a detector van or otherwise, come to my flat to make enquiries. I rather wish they had done so, as then I could have told them that I hadn't bought a licence because I did not have a television.

Incidentally, Mrs. Athy has a pet theory that T.V. Detector vans were dummies, and that the equipment which you could see bristling on top of them did not actually do anything. they were, says she, just there to frighten people into buying licenses. is this true?

Edited September 4, 2010 by Athy

[NB Alnwick]

I'm not totally certain this is true any more.

 

The preferred on-line method of sending you a purchased licence is by e-mail, rather than post.

 

I've just stepped through the process of buying a licence for a boat up until the point you enter payment method.

 

There is an option to say "I don't know the post code of the address where it will be used" and you can enter a "Licensed Address" without specifying one. Additionally you can specifically elect to have all correspondence sent to a different nominated address, (e.g friend or relatives).

 

So, if you really wanted to buy a licence for "Narrow boat Kingfisher, continually cruising the Inland waterways of England and Wales", I can see nothing in the on-line system that would stop you. I clearly didn't want to pay £145.50 to prove the point, but I'm fairly certain this is correct.

 

I'm guessing me imparting this information will not result in a sudden glut of applications for TV licences for narrow boats, though!

 

If that is the case, then the licensing authority have made some significant improvements and are clearly doing there best to recognise those who use TV apparatus at a location that is not a recognised permanent address. Having said that, there is no legal requirement (yet) for each of us to own a computer and when I made an enquiry by telephone a few weeks back I was told that I should "use the address of a friend, family member or PO box" and that would be "acceptable" - when I pointed out that the law requires me to have a licence for the actual property or premises where the apparatus is kept and used, the lady on the other end of the phone said "we won't worry about that as long as you can prove that you have paid for a licence."

 

In conclusion, the licensing authority are not really worried about the application of the law as long as you pay - I think this is wrong but I do not advocate licence dodging - I simply believe that the law needs clarifying - at the moment, I have been told that I definitely do not need a licence for the boat because I have a licence for the house! So if I sold the house and used my father's address (where the TV licence is free because of his age) for buying a TV licence, would we need to have two licences both at the same address? The lady who I spoke to on the phone said "yes" but she couldn't explain which bit of the law made this a requirement . . .

[cotswoldsman]

If that is the case, then the licensing authority have made some significant improvements and are clearly doing there best to recognise those who use TV apparatus at a location that is not a recognised permanent address. Having said that, there is no legal requirement (yet) for each of us to own a computer and when I made an enquiry by telephone a few weeks back I was told that I should "use the address of a friend, family member or PO box" and that would be "acceptable" - when I pointed out that the law requires me to have a licence for the actual property or premises where the apparatus is kept and used, the lady on the other end of the phone said "we won't worry about that as long as you can prove that you have paid for a licence."

 

In conclusion, the licensing authority are not really worried about the application of the law as long as you pay - I think this is wrong but I do not advocate licence dodging - I simply believe that the law needs clarifying - at the moment, I have been told that I definitely do not need a licence for the boat because I have a licence for the house! So if I sold the house and used my father's address (where the TV licence is free because of his age) for buying a TV licence, would we need to have two licences both at the same address? The lady who I spoke to on the phone said "yes" but she couldn't explain which bit of the law made this a requirement . . .

 

I also have a licence via my house and this is ok because I watch the TV that was in my house. Now as I understand it if someone was living in the house and also watching TV then I would have to buy another licence for my TV on the boat. For my mail I do sometimes use my Mothers address who is also on a free tv licence but I can not claim that as my home licence if she insist on watching TV. If you have a TV on your boat and do not pay for a licence you are breaking the law.

[Guest wanted]

I also have a licence via my house and this is ok because I watch the TV that was in my house. Now as I understand it if someone was living in the house and also watching TV then I would have to buy another licence for my TV on the boat. For my mail I do sometimes use my Mothers address who is also on a free tv licence but I can not claim that as my home licence if she insist on watching TV. If you have a TV on your boat and do not pay for a licence you are breaking the law.

 

Pedant alert, I take it you mean if you have and TV and means to recieve a signal then you are breaking the law? Surley having a TV for watching films does not require a license (yet )

[cotswoldsman]

Pedant alert, I take it you mean if you have and TV and means to recieve a signal then you are breaking the law? Surley having a TV for watching films does not require a license (yet )

 

 

Yes if you are watching TV is what I mean........that is if you can find anything worth watching!!

 

 

[rgreg]

I also have a licence via my house and this is ok because I watch the TV that was in my house. Now as I understand it if someone was living in the house and also watching TV then I would have to buy another licence for my TV on the boat. For my mail I do sometimes use my Mothers address who is also on a free tv licence but I can not claim that as my home licence if she insist on watching TV. If you have a TV on your boat and do not pay for a licence you are breaking the law.

 

Precisely, that's my understanding too

[EricMark]

Pedant alert, I take it you mean if you have and TV and means to recieve a signal then you are breaking the law? Surley having a TV for watching films does not require a license (yet )

It was that you needed a licence to have a TV. But it is all on case law and it seems some one showed they could not receive a TV signal and used only the DVD and so it was modified. You need to demonstrate it can't receive TV so if you have an aerial then that will not wash.

 

http://www.tvcatchup.com/ Lets up watch Live TV so needs a licence but watching programs on BBC web site does not. However for the licence fee is it really worth taking the chance? Well I suppose if your one of those who don't pay the waterways licence then just the same thing. Remember as well as fine they take all equipment. However they do seem to be reasonable and I have heard how when a genuine mistake has been made if you get a licence without delay they often let it go.

[Natalie Graham]

Yet not once did anyone, with a detector van or otherwise, come to my flat to make enquiries. I rather wish they had done so, as then I could have told them that I hadn't bought a licence because I did not have a television.

Incidentally, Mrs. Athy has a pet theory that T.V. Detector vans were dummies, and that the equipment which you could see bristling on top of them did not actually do anything. they were, says she, just there to frighten people into buying licenses. is this true?

I had two people come to my house to check when I stopped watching the TV and didn't renew the licence. They came in, I showed them the television I was no longer watching and they went away satisfied. It didn't stop the menacing letters coming through the post over subsequent months and years until I got fed up and wrote a strongly worded letter back at them in which I pointed out I also did not have a licence to sell game, to drive a heavy goods vehicle, to go fishing

and any other licenece I could find at the time for the reason that I did not do any of these activities and if at any point I was to do so then I would obtain the appropriate licence and the same thing applied to the TV licence so stop pestering me with threatening letters or else I would consider it harrassment and take appropriate legal steps to deal with it.

 

The early detector vans certainly had nothing beneath the rotating "aerial" on the roof. My grandparents ran the post office in their village and the detector van used to call there first for a list of addresses where there was no licence then they would drive round with the aerial rotating on the roof of the van at call at the addresses on the list. My grandparents never had a licence but strangely their names were never on the list.

[Guest wanted]

It was that you needed a licence to have a TV. But it is all on case law and it seems some one showed they could not receive a TV signal and used only the DVD and so it was modified. You need to demonstrate it can't receive TV so if you have an aerial then that will not wash.

 

http://www.tvcatchup.com/ Lets up watch Live TV so needs a licence but watching programs on BBC web site does not. However for the licence fee is it really worth taking the chance? Well I suppose if your one of those who don't pay the waterways licence then just the same thing. Remember as well as fine they take all equipment. However they do seem to be reasonable and I have heard how when a genuine mistake has been made if you get a licence without delay they often let it go.

 

Not sure if that was for me or in general, but I do pay my waterways licence fee and am happy to do so, I get something for that, I don't however wish to pay for a TV licence because I don't watch TV other than the odd thing on Iplayer. I do object to the assumption by the licensing bods that you are guilty until they can prove otherwise. I have had the angry letters and phone calls and have always told them they are welcome to come and look but I will not guarantee when I will be in or a specific time. That is up to them to get right.

 

As I said before, I am probably well licensed as I let a few 'leisure' moorers use my residential letter box on our mooring, they have TV licenses sent to my address so I imagine that technically I am covered and they are not. still, like I said, I have no interest in what simon cowell thinks and if I want to see eastnders I go to the east end.