CCing and BW's interpretation of the law

[Naughty Cal]

Well, yes. But the question is, how many private boaters on holiday are actually around long enough to know who is CCCing according to the rules? I'm sure everyone knows of the odd boat that has had "engine trouble" for years, and there are certainly a few continuous moorers out in the middle of nowhere where noone cares about them, but it seems to me that those with moorings take the term "continuous cruising" rather too literally. A legitimate CCer may only move 15 times during the whole 7 month season, and in areas with lots of CCers they will generally all move on a Saturday morning - tying up long before most holiday-makers are finished on their day's cruising. This may create the illusion of continuous moorers all over the place, but that doesn't make it so.

 

It is often a giveaway when they are stuck to the same bit of river/canal bank for months on end with the contents of the garden shed strewn over the towpath.

 

Some of us use our boats every weekend so can easily spot the CCers that have taken root.

[cotswoldsman]

It is often a giveaway when they are stuck to the same bit of river/canal bank for months on end with the contents of the garden shed strewn over the towpath.

 

Some of us use our boats every weekend so can easily spot the CCers that have taken root.

 

Again then they are not CCers you must try and learn what a CCer is.

[Naughty Cal]

Again then they are not CCers you must try and learn what a CCer is.

 

Maybe the distinction would be clearer if genuine CCers were not such a rare breed.

[cotswoldsman]

Maybe the distinction would be clearer if genuine CCers were not such a rare breed.

 

No it is just you prefer to lump anyone without a marina or permanent mooring as a CCer we are not a breed we are just a bunch of boaters who move around the system.

[Naughty Cal]

No it is just you prefer to lump anyone without a marina or permanent mooring as a CCer we are not a breed we are just a bunch of boaters who move around the system.

 

Moving around the system tends to imply that you will leave the stretch of water you have inhabited from time to time. An idea a lot of CCers seem to struggle with.

[cotswoldsman]

Moving around the system tends to imply that you will leave the stretch of water you have inhabited from time to time. An idea a lot of CCers seem to struggle with.

Again then they are not CCers you really must try and get the hang of what a CCer is or is this just for the sake of your need to post all day long??

[ymu]

Moving around the system tends to imply that you will leave the stretch of water you have inhabited from time to time. An idea a lot of CCers seem to struggle with.

You could perfectly legally spend a year CCing from Banbury to Oxford and back - and even then, you could afford to be choosy about mooring spots.

 

I'm assuming that you have checked that none of the boats you saw "continuously moored" over the winter were paying for a winter mooring?

[cotswoldsman]

I'm assuming that you have checked that none of the boats you saw "continuously moored" over the winter were paying for a winter mooring?

 

And before anyone says it .....BW do not issue a winter mooring licence if you take a mooring for less than 3 months.

[romarni123]

You could perfectly legally spend a year CCing from Banbury to Oxford and back - and even then, you could afford to be choosy about mooring spots.

 

I'm assuming that you have checked that none of the boats you saw "continuously moored" over the winter were paying for a winter mooring?

 

But does it not say that you have to go from A to B to C and not back to A In what ever time period

[ymu]

But does it not say that you have to go from A to B to C and not back to A In what ever time period

Nope. No time period in the guidelines. In London there are signs saying no return within a year; in Oxford some 48 hour moorings have no return within 48 days (ie 7 weeks).

 

The guidelines cover turning round, eg at the end of a navigation such as the south end of the Oxford. It's fine. As it should be, of course.

[romarni123]

Nope. No time period in the guidelines. In London there are signs saying no return within a year; in Oxford some 48 hour moorings have no return within 48 days (ie 7 weeks).

 

The guidelines cover turning round, eg at the end of a navigation such as the south end of the Oxford. It's fine. As it should be, of course.

 

I had this debate with the mooring officer he said you go on a progresive journey a2b2c etc unles you go up a canal like the asby where you have to turn round. He said not to point a then point b and c then turn round even if its a year later I think he was just being a knob myself,but I did check and it does say progresive journey, by which i think they mean go from one place to another to another without turning round but you could run out of canal

[ymu]

I had this debate with the mooring officer he said you go on a progresive journey a2b2c etc unles you go up a canal like the asby where you have to turn round. He said not to point a then point b and c then turn round even if its a year later I think he was just being a knob myself,but I did check and it does say progresive journey, by which i think they mean go from one place to another to another without turning round but you could run out of canal

Well, that's why I chose Banbury to Oxford - you have to turn round at the end, or buy a licence for the Thames. There's no particular reason why you can't turn round at any arbitrary point if that's where your journey takes you - I might want to visit family in Keynsham and then head back east again before I hit the coast, for example. It's if you're turning around every other month that you'll run into problems justifying it.

[mayalld]

Much as I'd like to cut you some slack Dave, your assertion (or argument) was quite clear on "all but impossible" to find a mooring so I would have to say that mostly you would have to show 100% full at teatime (with the vast majority of the boats having been there more than 2 weeks) although I would allow the occasional (say 1 in 4) 90% occupation.

 

Anything else rather dilutes your argument.

 

It would be also useful if you could establish that the boats you show staying there over 2 weeks were not boats with home moorings whose owners simply found it convenient to leave their boats on a visitor mooring until they wanted to use it again. I perceive this as a major problem affecting visitor moorings in our area.

 

OK, so long as I know what the parameters are!

 

Given the length of mooring that I am thinking about, my meaning in saying 90%+ was that there should be insufficient room to moor a 58' boat (which, given that this is a popular size for leisure boaters would mean that it was "all but impossible" for leisure boaters to get a mooring).

 

In relation to the second part of what you require; I will check whether the boats concerned are CCers or have a home mooring on at least some of the visits I make, and report the figures back to you.

[Natalie Graham]

. In London there are signs saying no return within a year;

It would be good to get round the entire system, with logs and photos to prove it and then land back up in the same spot, within a year, and see what they say.

[romarni123]

Well, that's why I chose Banbury to Oxford - you have to turn round at the end, or buy a licence for the Thames. There's no particular reason why you can't turn round at any arbitrary point if that's where your journey takes you - I might want to visit family in Keynsham and then head back east again before I hit the coast, for example. It's if you're turning around every other month that you'll run into problems justifying it.

 

Right got you

 

It would be good to get round the entire system, with logs and photos to prove it and then land back up in the same spot, within a year, and see what they say.

 

The first time you overstay by a day they will give you a ticket while ignoring the people who never move

[Guest User]

It would be good to get round the entire system, with logs and photos to prove it and then land back up in the same spot, within a year, and see what they say.

 

... the navigable inland waterways are of finite length ... if compelled to remain constantly on the move in true progression, I'd hazard that anyone would find that length to be surprisingly short. The problems/resentment arise when some folks take the mickey, but attempts to proscribe such behaviour have, it turns out, been ineptly defined .... I've a feeling though that the disparity between what folks from either side of the debate want and what is actually written will remain for some time yet.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Graham!

[ymu]

... the navigable inland waterways are of finite length ... if compelled to remain constantly on the move in true progression, I'd hazard that anyone would find that length to be surprisingly short. The problems/resentment arise when some folks take the mickey, but attempts to proscribe such behaviour have, it turns out, been ineptly defined .... I've a feeling though that the disparity between what folks from either side of the debate want and what is actually written will remain for some time yet.

There's an unspoken assumption here that CCers literally cruise every day. They vary, of course, but many will only be on the move for 26 days in a year - 15 if they take a winter mooring - and then often not for a full 9 hour day or anything close to it. They don't necessarily cover any more ground in a year than the average fortnight's holiday-maker. Our route from Solihull to Keynsham will take us around a year, for example - it's only about 16 days cruising @ 9 hours/day.

 

CCing is not a full-time job. Some of us have lives to attend to!

[MrCJ]

if i was a CCer and choose to moor at (A) stay there for a few days look around the local area, then move on and cruise for say 2 hours and find another place i like the look at and moor for another few days, and then move on the same again and so on. Then after doing this for say 2 month I can't turn round and come back the same way. Or have i got it all wrong??

[sueb]

if i was a CCer and choose to moor at (A) stay there for a few days look around the local area, then move on and cruise for say 2 hours and find another place i like the look at and moor for another few days, and then move on the same again and so on. Then after doing this for say 2 month I can't turn round and come back the same way. Or have i got it all wrong??

You can move where you like. This is still a comparatively free country. If you move BW won't touch you.

Sue

 

I had this debate with the mooring officer he said you go on a progresive journey a2b2c etc unles you go up a canal like the asby where you have to turn round. He said not to point a then point b and c then turn round even if its a year later I think he was just being a knob myself,but I did check and it does say progresive journey, by which i think they mean go from one place to another to another without turning round but you could run out of canal

 

We had a Patrol Officer tell us that we couldn't return within 10 weeks. He had made this up, which was a shame as he was a nice man.

Sue

[romarni123]

if i was a CCer and choose to moor at (A) stay there for a few days look around the local area, then move on and cruise for say 2 hours and find another place i like the look at and moor for another few days, and then move on the same again and so on. Then after doing this for say 2 month I can't turn round and come back the same way. Or have i got it all wrong??

 

N o you got it right it has to be a progresive journey so you go A to B TO C TO D and so on NOT A to B to A unless you go up a dead end canal

[sueb]

N o you got it right it has to be a progresive journey so you go A to B TO C TO D and so on NOT A to B to A unless you go up a dead end canal

That is what BW would have you believe but it isn't correct.

Sue

[drunkensailor]

As a relative outsider to the forum, I can't help feeling on reading this thread that a lot of the posts on here read like sour grapes.

 

I really don't see the reality of all of these places being impossible to moor in. There is a possibility you won't be able to moor in an exact spot that you might have fancied when you plan your holidays, but I can't see that makes it impossible for you to moor anywhere near where you had planned to go, and how that will subsequently wreck the rest of your journey.

 

And these labels for one particular group like "CCer", "CMer", "marina dweller" and "pretend CCer" are frankly a load of old tosh. You can't tell a thing about someone's lifestyle or character by the kind of boat they are using.

[romarni123]

That is what BW would have you believe but it isn't correct.

Sue

 

Dont know about that, it states that on my mail from them under guidelines for ccers thats what they want to satisfy them that you are a ccer will have a look though

 

As a relative outsider to the forum, I can't help feeling on reading this thread that a lot of the posts on here read like sour grapes.

 

I really don't see the reality of all of these places being impossible to moor in. There is a possibility you won't be able to moor in an exact spot that you might have fancied when you plan your holidays, but I can't see that makes it impossible for you to moor anywhere near where you had planned to go, and how that will subsequently wreck the rest of your journey.

 

And these labels for one particular group like "CCer", "CMer", "marina dweller" and "pretend CCer" are frankly a load of old tosh. You can't tell a thing about someone's lifestyle or character by the kind of boat they are using.

 

God I hope not else mine would say lazy cow paint your boat

[mayalld]

As a relative outsider to the forum, I can't help feeling on reading this thread that a lot of the posts on here read like sour grapes.

 

I really don't see the reality of all of these places being impossible to moor in. There is a possibility you won't be able to moor in an exact spot that you might have fancied when you plan your holidays, but I can't see that makes it impossible for you to moor anywhere near where you had planned to go, and how that will subsequently wreck the rest of your journey.

 

The issue is that on occasion, the mooring spot that is unavailable is the best (or only) mooring spot for some miles. It may be that a particular village can only reasonably be reached by mooring there.

 

Now, of course, it is possible that even without fake CC-ers hogging the available mooring spaces there may be no spare moorings there, but overstayers and bridge hoppers increase the probability that the mooring will be full.

 

Their inconsiderate behaviour is to the detriment of leisure users AND real CCers.

 

 

That is what BW would have you believe but it isn't correct.

Sue

 

It IS correct in that BW may refuse to issue a licence, or take steps to withdraw a licence if you ignore the guidelines.

 

You can, of course challenge their refusal through the courts, but for all practical purposes the guidelines are the requirements.

[sueb]

Dont know about that, it states that on my mail from them under guidelines for ccers thats what they want to satisfy them that you are a ccer will have a look though

They are Guidelines not the same as the Law. Don't believe all BW writes.

Sue