what is bandit country?

[Naughty Cal]

Spread by the media!

 

Tullz

 

And word of mouth

[Chertsey]

It does, but any of us could be attacked outside our own homes. It is silly to write of whole areas of the system because you may or may not encounter trouble. The majority of people who insist areas are no go areas have never even been to the places they are discussing.

 

Personally i go and make my own desicions about an area. If i dont like what i see i move on and find somewhere else i do like. At least i can say i have been there even if it wasnt my cup of tea.

Agreed. The point is, even in the 'worst' spots - the places where some people have had bad experiences in the recent past - you are still far more likely to emerge unscathed than not. The chances of something bad happening in a certain place, at the time you are there, are so minuscule as to not be worth running your life round them. If you don't like the look of a place, then don't stop. No one is in a better position to judge that than you are there and then. Advice given from a distance of both time and space is probably worse than useless as things do change.

 

A laudable attitude, but you are young and I am youngish and are probably not seen as 'victim material'. If we were in our sixties or infirm in any way our attitude may be different. I don't believe in 'no-go areas' and such terminology is silly and alarmist, but to say that troublespots don't exist is also silly.

On the contrary, it is young men who are statistically at the greatest risk of being victims of violence.

[Tullz]

And word of mouth

 

Nods in agreement

 

Tullz

[tomsk]

"Trouble spots" may exist but by avoiding them are people not making the issue worse?

 

What makes a place a trouble spot?

 

 

I get your first point, but are you calling for martyrs to populate these areas?

 

The second part of your post is typical Filis, obviously a 'troublespot' is a spot at which 'trouble' occurs in the same way as a Gibbon-Head is one with the head of a Gibbon.

 

The definition of a 'Trouble-spot' differs depending on your personal views, but would include to my mind towpath muggings, intraveinous drug users, boat break-ins, car break ins, The 'Old English' Crew, brick lozzers, fisherfolk presence, cyclists, dog walkers.

 

Moorings near a lively pub would be considered a plus by some (usually by those who would be regarded as troublemakers by the others who would not use said pub) whereas others would be moaning all night about the noise and enjoyment being derived by the hostelrys patrons.

 

To take things a step further, I would greatly enjoy meeting a steaming hippy on the tow-path, talking boats and smoking a fat one, whereas the average 'Timmy West Type' would be writing a strongly worded letter to The Daily Fail or similar bemoaning the presence of 'Drug Addicts' infesting the system.

Edited November 19, 2009 by tomsk

[Liam]

And the point some of us are querying. If we based all our decisions on this reasoning, we would never do anything or have anything to do with other people at all!

 

We are not talking about everybody on the planet, we are talking about minors who could accuse the owner of the boat of various nasty things after they've enjoyed their little boat trip.

[Naughty Cal]

The second part of your post is typical Filis, obviously a 'troublespot' is a spot at which 'trouble' occurs in the same way as a Gibbon-Head is one with the head of a Gibbon.

 

But just how likely is it that trouble will occur in the same spot at the exact time you go through?

 

Very unlikely IMO.

[tomsk]

Agreed. The point is, even in the 'worst' spots - the places where some people have had bad experiences in the recent past - you are still far more likely to emerge unscathed than not. The chances of something bad happening in a certain place, at the time you are there, are so minuscule as to not be worth running your life round them. If you don't like the look of a place, then don't stop. No one is in a better position to judge that than you are there and then. Advice given from a distance of both time and space is probably worse than useless as things do change.

 

 

On the contrary, it is young men who are statistically at the greatest risk of being victims of violence.

 

 

If you take the statistic as a whole and wish to be pedantic then yes, you are correct, but I think you are well aware of what I meant.

[Chertsey]

We are not talking about everybody on the planet, we are talking about minors who could accuse the owner of the boat of various nasty things after they've enjoyed their little boat trip.

Yes but how do you know who they are? Or do you just tar them all with the same brush to be on the safe side? And meanwhile kids get more and more isolated from adult company and good examples. As with everything, use your judgement and be prepared to take a tiny risk. Life isn't worth living otherwise.

[Naughty Cal]

Yes but how do you know who they are? Or do you just tar them all with the same brush to be on the safe side? And meanwhile kids get more and more isolated from adult company and good examples. As with everything, use your judgement and be prepared to take a tiny risk. Life isn't worth living otherwise.

 

Someone speaks sense

[Chertsey]

If you take the statistic as a whole and wish to be pedantic then yes, you are correct, but I think you are well aware of what I meant.

Not really. Did you mean that we shouldn't seek to allay people's unfounded fears?

[tomsk]

But just how likely is it that trouble will occur in the same spot at the exact time you go through?

 

Very unlikely IMO.

 

 

I agree fully Fil. However trouble and troublemakers usually conregate in one place until circumstances (usually Police presence) moves them on. This week it may be a set of locks, next week the same crew may find it more interesting to break into an abandoned cinema and throw crab apples at the rooves of cars stopped at the traffic lights below, the week afterwards it might be something else. Bordom is usually the driver in such behaviour if I remember my youth correctly.

[carlt]

We are not talking about everybody on the planet, we are talking about minors who could accuse the owner of the boat of various nasty things after they've enjoyed their little boat trip.

This could happen but it very rarely does.

 

Some people, when they were youths, were lucky because they had parents who were interested in boats.

 

Others had to rely on adults who didn't think they were to be robbed, beaten up or accused of child rape.

 

I would always rather assume the best in people, and risk being disappointed, than assume the worst and help along a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Naughty Cal]

I agree fully Fil. However trouble and troublemakers usually conregate in one place until circumstances (usually Police presence) moves them on. This week it may be a set of locks, next week the same crew may find it more interesting to break into an abandoned cinema and throw crab apples at the rooves of cars stopped at the traffic lights below, the week afterwards it might be something else. Bordom is usually the driver in such behaviour if I remember my youth correctly.

 

Make your mind up you either agree with me or you dont

 

Bordom is often the reason for anti social behaviour so instead of avoiding areas where children/teenagers congregate, plan a route through one of them and IF children/teenagers are present engage them in conversation or helping with locks. More often than not they will only be too pleased to help. If you are moored up for the evening and they are hanging around engage in conversation with them and they will soon get bored and move on. Ignoring them is more likely to result in bad behaviour.

[tomsk]

Yes but how do you know who they are? Or do you just tar them all with the same brush to be on the safe side? And meanwhile kids get more and more isolated from adult company and good examples. As with everything, use your judgement and be prepared to take a tiny risk. Life isn't worth living otherwise.

 

 

Agreed. Life is a risk and the wise evaluate risks before forming opinions.

 

Make your mind up you either agree with me or you dont

 

Bordom is often the reason for anti social behaviour so instead of avoiding areas where children/teenagers congregate, plan a route through one of them and IF children/teenagers are present engage them in conversation or helping with locks. More often than not they will only be too pleased to help. If you are moored up for the evening and they are hanging around engage in conversation with them and they will soon get bored and move on. Ignoring them is more likely to result in bad behaviour.

 

 

Quite, but if the first inkling of their presence is a rock being hurled in the general direction of your boat, or a pellet pinging off your hull, cruise on.

[Chertsey]

I agree fully Fil. However trouble and troublemakers usually conregate in one place until circumstances (usually Police presence) moves them on. This week it may be a set of locks, next week the same crew may find it more interesting to break into an abandoned cinema and throw crab apples at the rooves of cars stopped at the traffic lights below, the week afterwards it might be something else. Bordom is usually the driver in such behaviour if I remember my youth correctly.

Exactly why it is pointless to try to identify 'trouble spots' in advance from people's experience in the past.

[tomsk]

Not really. Did you mean that we shouldn't seek to allay people's unfounded fears?

 

 

If those fears are unfounded then we should seek to allay them.

 

If those fears are born of experience and the recent history of a particular location then to say that there isn't a problem where clearly there is then it is the equivalent of putting a blindfold on and sticking your fingers in your ears whilst singing 'La la la'...

[Naughty Cal]

If those fears are unfounded then we should seek to allay them.

 

If those fears are born of experience and the recent history of a particular location then to say that there isn't a problem where clearly there is then it is the equivalent of putting a blindfold on and sticking your fingers in your ears whilst singing 'La la la'...

 

But you yourself have admitted already that trouble is highly unlikely to happen in the same location and if it does the police will move them on.

 

Would you rather wield the blindfold and increase your cruising range or turn around when you hit "bandit country"

[tomsk]

But you yourself have admitted already that trouble is highly unlikely to happen in the same location and if it does the police will move them on.

 

Would you rather wield the blindfold and increase your cruising range or turn around when you hit "bandit country"

 

 

Err... that is not what I said or at least meant, I forgot that every post on CWDF needs to be caveated to within an inch of it's life.

 

It is liable and indeed likely to happen in the same location UNTIL the police get involved, usually only after a spate of complaints/crimes have been reported to them and even then probably only when they have a quiet period. It is also worth noting that in the main, the troublemakers will be back once the heat is off or when the copshave chased them off the roof of the cinema or wherever else they go. These people don't just disappear, all you can do is move them so they become someone elses problem, much like prostitutes.

 

Unfortunately the rozzers have nastier and more pressing things on their plates like murder, rape and stuff to spend much time hanging around locks and tow-paths on the off-chance of catching a bunch of bored kids causing 'trouble' or an oppertunistic boat burglar. The thing to remember is it is not perhaps 'actual crime', but rather the 'perception of crime', that is the over-riding factor in peoples attitudes to certain areas.

 

I would never advocate turning around, but just be aware of your surroundings when you tie-up, if you are uncomfortable with your surroundings carry on for a bit until The Fear diminishes.

Edited November 19, 2009 by tomsk

[Naughty Cal]

I would never advocate turning around, but just be aware of your surroundings when you tie-up, if you are uncomfortable with your surroundings carry on for a bit

 

Sound advice. But should we not do that each and everytime we moor up, not just in "bandit country"

[tomsk]

Sound advice. But should we not do that each and everytime we moor up, not just in "bandit country"

 

 

Errr, yes.... and for the record I hate the term 'Bandit Country'.....

[Naughty Cal]

Errr, yes.... and for the record I hate the term 'Bandit Country'.....

 

So do i but i couldnt think of a better term

[MrCJ]

Now any information and knowledge that is gained from this thread can be a good thing and in some cases bad, as some people would take this information and not travel to that area but I would of thought that would be a very small number. Others would take that info and just think a bit more, I would take this info and judge by myself, It wouldnt stop me travelling somewhere or past somewhere. What I am saying it is better to go into something with your eyes open and not shut. I understand trouble doesnt always hit the same place twice. You can also have trouble where its never happened before.

 

A point you got a single hander boater travelling from A to B doesnt know any thing about any so called trouble areas ends up in trouble or even hurt (small chance I know but could happen) there is no one around to help him. If he had been given the info in the first place they could of made a informed choice and waited until another boater came along then travelled that stretch together. The information has not stop them from travelling to the area just made them more aware. As i said before it could happen anywhere but in areas it has happened its best to have that info.

[Naughty Cal]

I think another part of this issue is what people class as trouble.

 

A group of youths or adults hanging around a lock may to some seem like trouble whereas others will just get on with the job in hand.

[tomsk]

Now any information and knowledge that is gained from this thread can be a good thing and in some cases bad, as some people would take this information and not travel to that area but I would of thought that would be a very small number. Others would take that info and just think a bit more, I would take this info and judge by myself, It wouldnt stop me travelling somewhere or past somewhere. What I am saying it is better to go into something with your eyes open and not shut. I understand trouble doesnt always hit the same place twice. You can also have trouble where its never happened before.

 

A point you got a single hander boater travelling from A to B doesnt know any thing about any so called trouble areas ends up in trouble or even hurt (small chance I know but could happen) there is no one around to help him. If he had been given the info in the first place they could of made a informed choice and waited until another boater came along then travelled that stretch together. The information has not stop them from travelling to the area just made them more aware. As i said before it could happen anywhere but in areas it has happened its best to have that info.

 

 

Thanks MrCJ, the very point I was struggling to make.

[Laurie Booth]

A simple thing I do to work out if there might be a trouble spot is to see if the locks require "Water Conservation Keys".

We once got stuck on a bank and couldn't get off, when a bunch of "Hoodies" etc came to our rescue and got us moving again.

People's looks can be very deceptive.