selling and other services from boat on K&A

[luctor et emergo]

Another one which I would like some feedback on from those at the shap end...

 

According to http://www.lock13.co.uk/boats/coaldiesel.htm there is one boat selling diesel on the K&A. I read in another post that there might well be interest in a boat offering pump out facilities. Is this the case? I have obviously no intention to try and step on Andy's toes (if indeed he is trading) but if there would be a business opportunitie (making a living whilst living so to speak.. ) I would like to investigate it. Truck driving is great, but after 20+ years I have been thinking about a chance.

 

Would there be a market for say a Pump Out service on the K&A. ( I work on a tanker truck at the moment, so I'm used to working with pump gearetc, and I'm used to being surrounded by effluent, albeit from the bovine variety... ). What about casettes?

 

Short off contacting the current trader (I'm only looking at possibles at the moment) and encrouching on his business, would there be call for more/different service? The list only list that Andy sells diesel, how about coal? toilet pape? matches, you know the thing. Those little essentials that you run out off in the middel of nowhere...

 

I realise that there would be rules and regulations to be considered, but before I delve into that, I would like to know if it is feasible at all. It would also mean changing the type (and size) of boat I would need to look for. Or could such a thing be done with a butty?

 

Thanks for your responses, they are much appreciated and a great help.

[GSer]

Another one which I would like some feedback on from those at the shap end...

 

According to http://www.lock13.co.uk/boats/coaldiesel.htm there is one boat selling diesel on the K&A. I read in another post that there might well be interest in a boat offering pump out facilities. Is this the case? I have obviously no intention to try and step on Andy's toes (if indeed he is trading) but if there would be a business opportunitie (making a living whilst living so to speak.. ) I would like to investigate it. Truck driving is great, but after 20+ years I have been thinking about a chance.

 

Would there be a market for say a Pump Out service on the K&A. ( I work on a tanker truck at the moment, so I'm used to working with pump gearetc, and I'm used to being surrounded by effluent, albeit from the bovine variety... ). What about casettes?

 

Short off contacting the current trader (I'm only looking at possibles at the moment) and encrouching on his business, would there be call for more/different service? The list only list that Andy sells diesel, how about coal? toilet pape? matches, you know the thing. Those little essentials that you run out off in the middel of nowhere...

 

I realise that there would be rules and regulations to be considered, but before I delve into that, I would like to know if it is feasible at all. It would also mean changing the type (and size) of boat I would need to look for. Or could such a thing be done with a butty?

 

Thanks for your responses, they are much appreciated and a great help.

 

We're spoilt for choice in the long pound and east of that there are plenty of pump out stations or boatyards offering their services,

 

Andy sells coal and diesel and offers a signwriting/painting service

 

The nature of that end of the canal (quite rural in places) means that most regular visitors have a car or at least a means of transport available. A floating shop may work but I feel it will be more for 'pin' money than a business. People that seem to do well are offering a craft/skill, joiners, seamstresses, ropesmiths, gasfitters, electricians & mechanics and when I say 'do well' I mean scrape a pittance. If a pittance is all you need to exist then you may be in luck.

 

Good luck, our paths will probably cross as that area of the canal is a regular haunt of mine.

 

Paul

Edited September 8, 2009 by GSer

[Heffalump]

Another one which I would like some feedback on from those at the shap end...

 

According to http://www.lock13.co.uk/boats/coaldiesel.htm there is one boat selling diesel on the K&A. I read in another post that there might well be interest in a boat offering pump out facilities. Is this the case? I have obviously no intention to try and step on Andy's toes (if indeed he is trading) but if there would be a business opportunitie (making a living whilst living so to speak.. ) I would like to investigate it. Truck driving is great, but after 20+ years I have been thinking about a chance.

 

Would there be a market for say a Pump Out service on the K&A. ( I work on a tanker truck at the moment, so I'm used to working with pump gearetc, and I'm used to being surrounded by effluent, albeit from the bovine variety... ). What about casettes?

 

Short off contacting the current trader (I'm only looking at possibles at the moment) and encrouching on his business, would there be call for more/different service? The list only list that Andy sells diesel, how about coal? toilet pape? matches, you know the thing. Those little essentials that you run out off in the middel of nowhere...

 

I realise that there would be rules and regulations to be considered, but before I delve into that, I would like to know if it is feasible at all. It would also mean changing the type (and size) of boat I would need to look for. Or could such a thing be done with a butty?

 

Thanks for your responses, they are much appreciated and a great help.

 

I like the sound of this idea! Though I'm no help unfortunately

[deletedaccount]

I think it could be a goer but you'd need to do more than just pump outs to make a living imo. I mean how many a day would you need to perform to make a living?

 

But yeah, please come and pump me out. I'm in widcome at the moment, bath narrowboats closes at 4, I finish work at 5 and my bowl overfloweth.

[luctor et emergo]

We're spoilt for choice in the long pound and east of that there are plenty of pump out stations or boatyards offering their services,

 

Andy sells coal and diesel and offers a signwriting/painting service

 

The nature of that end of the canal (quite rural in places) means that most regular visitors have a car or at least a means of transport available. A floating shop may work but I feel it will be more for 'pin' money than a business. People that seem to do well are offering a craft/skill, joiners, seamstresses, gasfitters, electricians & mechanics and when I say 'do well' I mean scrape a pittance. If a pittance is all you need to exist then you may be in luck.

 

Good luck, our paths will probably cross as that area of the canal is a regular haunt of mine.

 

Paul

 

I would have to see what relevant skills I have for this kind of departure.. I can splice ropes, but I doubt I'll make a living out of that.. I'm handy with spanners (used to maintain etc my bikes) , but have no actual hands on experience with marine diesels (yet..), other than the usual things like oil and filter changes etc.. although a manual would go a long way. I'm not a bad painter (I paint scale models and figures) but again no relevant experience painting boats.

 

Thanks for your info on Andy's business Paul.

[luctor et emergo]

I think it could be a goer but you'd need to do more than just pump outs to make a living imo. I mean how many a day would you need to perform to make a living?

 

But yeah, please come and pump me out. I'm in widcome at the moment, bath narrowboats closes at 4, I finish work at 5 and my bowl overfloweth.

 

 

That's what I mean, if there are enough boats who can not/ want not use the pump out facilities, there would be a market for this. I would be pretty much available anytime, within reason. Additional income could come from selling other goods, possibly. But there may be restrictions (no, lets make that there WILL be restrictions.. ) such as efluent and foodstuffs in a confined space etc.. carrying fuel, other than coal, would also need extensive complience and specialist equipment (I imagine) .

[deletedaccount]

That's what I mean, if there are enough boats who can not/ want not use the pump out facilities, there would be a market for this. I would be pretty much available anytime, within reason. Additional income could come from selling other goods, possibly. But there may be restrictions (no, lets make that there WILL be restrictions.. ) such as efluent and foodstuffs in a confined space etc.. carrying fuel, other than coal, would also need extensive complience and specialist equipment (I imagine) .

 

I'd certainly pay you to do it if

1) the prices were comparable and

2) you were around when I needed you or I could at least tell when you would be in the vicinity.

Edited September 8, 2009 by deletedaccount

[Sir Nibble]

Probably a non starter. It would cost you a fortune to get rid of the effluent in those sort of quantities.

[debbifiggy]

Another one which I would like some feedback on from those at the shap end...

 

According to http://www.lock13.co.uk/boats/coaldiesel.htm there is one boat selling diesel on the K&A. I read in another post that there might well be interest in a boat offering pump out facilities. Is this the case? I have obviously no intention to try and step on Andy's toes (if indeed he is trading) but if there would be a business opportunitie (making a living whilst living so to speak.. ) I would like to investigate it. Truck driving is great, but after 20+ years I have been thinking about a chance.

 

Would there be a market for say a Pump Out service on the K&A. ( I work on a tanker truck at the moment, so I'm used to working with pump gearetc, and I'm used to being surrounded by effluent, albeit from the bovine variety... ). What about casettes?

 

Short off contacting the current trader (I'm only looking at possibles at the moment) and encrouching on his business, would there be call for more/different service? The list only list that Andy sells diesel, how about coal? toilet pape? matches, you know the thing. Those little essentials that you run out off in the middel of nowhere...

 

I realise that there would be rules and regulations to be considered, but before I delve into that, I would like to know if it is feasible at all. It would also mean changing the type (and size) of boat I would need to look for. Or could such a thing be done with a butty?

 

Thanks for your responses, they are much appreciated and a great help.

 

I can see there being a demand for this kind of service in London.

D

[luctor et emergo]

Thanks for your replies all, looks like it might be a possibility, I'll have a look into the practicalities (regulations, equipment etc) and see if it could be realised.

[luctor et emergo]

I've looked a bit further into this, and the praticalities look surmountable, but I have a few more questions.

 

What is the (average) size of a waste tank on board, or the average volume of a waste pump out? How long do you manage between pump outs?

 

considering that it is free to empty a casette, would you be willing to pay a small fee to empty it 'at your mooring', for a small fee?

 

Would you pay to have a bilge pump out? (I'm thinking of the oil and diesel contaminated stuff, which would require disposal. Or is that something that you can do once in a while in a Marina?)

 

I have trown a few ideas around with a colleage at work, and sofar the practical side is pretty much covered. I could provide a pump out tank, and a fresh water tank (for cleaning the waste tank), and disposal of that in bulk can be easily provided (no, not 'over the side' in a field... ). I need to find out if the volumes will work out, to make it financially viable. And to see if it can be done with a single boat, or if a butty would be a better solution.

 

Thanks.

 

I'd certainly pay you to do it if

1) the prices were comparable and

2) you were around when I needed you or I could at least tell when you would be in the vicinity.

 

 

Prices would be comparable, weighing the convinience of not having to move (and having it done at a time convinient to you), against the reasonably availabilitty of pumpout points.

 

I'm thinking initially of moving up and down the canal, taking in as a go along. Frequency will depend on the amount of business, could be once a week, or once a month? Depending on the volumes, I may do it 'part time' filling in with Truck driving to pay the bills .

 

Probably a non starter. It would cost you a fortune to get rid of the effluent in those sort of quantities.

 

 

Not neccessarily, depending on the volumes, and costs, that side is easily covered.

[nb Innisfree]

Average holding tank 80ish gal? which would last approx 7-14 days? depending on number of crew

 

You would need to do a regular and predictable round, if it's erratic people will make other arrangements. Plenty of cards with your phone no. so people can contact you and plan

 

Clean drinking water would be welcome I think, not neccessarily a tank full but enough to eke out for a short while.

 

A frozen loaf of bread can be very handy as they tend to go mouldy these days + milk, frozen would be ok.

[luctor et emergo]

Average holding tank 80ish gal? which would last approx 7-14 days? depending on number of crew

 

You would need to do a regular and predictable round, if it's erratic people will make other arrangements. Plenty of cards with your phone no. so people can contact you and plan

 

Clean drinking water would be welcome I think, not neccessarily a tank full but enough to eke out for a short while.

 

A frozen loaf of bread can be very handy as they tend to go mouldy these days + milk, frozen would be ok.

 

So that would be an average of some 300 liters a go? That should not take long to pump, so a reasonable number of boats could be serviced a day. I would initially plan to kind of start on one end, end work my way down the canal, of course depending on where the demand is highest. If I had a 6000 liter holding tank I could do around twenty boats before needing to empty. Drinking water I would have to see what would be required from a health and safety point of view, because it's a food stuff. Stuff in sealed containers is ok, but if my tank supply for what ever reason gives somebody a stomac bug.. But I suppose I could carry bottled water (the big 5liter bottles, not Evian... ). Frozen milk and bread, I had not thought of that, good idea.

 

The price of the pump out is going to be the clincher, I believe that a pump out at a station on the K&A cost around £20 ? So if a service like this would be something between £20 and £30, would that be o.k.? This is only a rough ball park figure of course, it depends largely on the cost of disposal, and licencing.

[nb Innisfree]

So that would be an average of some 300 liters a go? That should not take long to pump, so a reasonable number of boats could be serviced a day. I would initially plan to kind of start on one end, end work my way down the canal, of course depending on where the demand is highest. If I had a 6000 liter holding tank I could do around twenty boats before needing to empty. Drinking water I would have to see what would be required from a health and safety point of view, because it's a food stuff. Stuff in sealed containers is ok, but if my tank supply for what ever reason gives somebody a stomac bug.. But I suppose I could carry bottled water (the big 5liter bottles, not Evian... ). Frozen milk and bread, I had not thought of that, good idea.

 

The price of the pump out is going to be the clincher, I believe that a pump out at a station on the K&A cost around £20 ? So if a service like this would be something between £20 and £30, would that be o.k.? This is only a rough ball park figure of course, it depends largely on the cost of disposal, and licencing.

 

More like 350 lt a go + rinse out would make it 360-370?. Full p/o not necessary of course and it saves someone making a trip just for p/o then perhaps worth a tenner.

 

P/o cards are £12.60 I think, average p/o at marinas £15

[luctor et emergo]

More like 350 lt a go + rinse out would make it 360-370?. Full p/o not necessary of course and it saves someone making a trip just for p/o then perhaps worth a tenner.

 

P/o cards are £12.60 I think, average p/o at marinas £15

 

 

Thanks, I thought I read is was around £20, but obviously I would have to get the actuall costs for a proper costing, same as I will first have a walk along the canal, to guage interest out there (not all boaters are on line, or on this forum.. )

[sueb]

Thanks, I thought I read is was around £20, but obviously I would have to get the actuall costs for a proper costing, same as I will first have a walk along the canal, to guage interest out there (not all boaters are on line, or on this forum.. )

Our tank lasts 3 weeks 55 gals and we have a self pump out but would pay up to £15 a time if you came past when we were full. As we travel this wouldn't be regular. Some yards charge for emptying a cassette so a charge would be acceptable.

A freezer with food seems a good idea.

This is where BW guidelines fall down as you probably wouldn't move enough to satisfy the cc guidance but you wouldn't need a mooring. The cboa association may be helpful.

Sue

[RLWP]

How about offering some kind of contract service to boats on long term moorings?

 

Pump-out connections are on the outside of boats and many marinas pump-out, wash and add bloo through that. So you don't need to have someone on the boat to pump out.

 

You could agree to always empty a clients boat when you passed by in exchange for an annual/monthly fee. They would have a regular service, you would have a regular income and also know how much "material" you would have to dispose of each trip.

 

Richard

[mayalld]

Our tank lasts 3 weeks 55 gals and we have a self pump out but would pay up to £15 a time if you came past when we were full. As we travel this wouldn't be regular. Some yards charge for emptying a cassette so a charge would be acceptable.

A freezer with food seems a good idea.

This is where BW guidelines fall down as you probably wouldn't move enough to satisfy the cc guidance but you wouldn't need a mooring. The cboa association may be helpful.

Sue

 

It is worth pointing out that if he is doing this, he will need a trading licence, and that the CC rules won't come into it.

[luctor et emergo]

Our tank lasts 3 weeks 55 gals and we have a self pump out but would pay up to £15 a time if you came past when we were full. As we travel this wouldn't be regular. Some yards charge for emptying a cassette so a charge would be acceptable.

A freezer with food seems a good idea.

This is where BW guidelines fall down as you probably wouldn't move enough to satisfy the cc guidance but you wouldn't need a mooring. The cboa association may be helpful.

Sue

 

Thanks Sue

 

How about offering some kind of contract service to boats on long term moorings?

 

Pump-out connections are on the outside of boats and many marinas pump-out, wash and add bloo through that. So you don't need to have someone on the boat to pump out.

 

You could agree to always empty a clients boat when you passed by in exchange for an annual/monthly fee. They would have a regular service, you would have a regular income and also know how much "material" you would have to dispose of each trip.

 

Richard

 

 

Hmm, contract service, that is an idea. Bit like our window cleaner, who will clean the windows when he is on his round, regardless of us being in.. But I suppose that such long term moorings are more in the Bath and Bristol area?

 

It is worth pointing out that if he is doing this, he will need a trading licence, and that the CC rules won't come into it.

 

My next step is to contact BW, to establish what licences are needed (and cost ) , and what the regulations for waste carriage on the canal are. And I need to get a spare afternoon or so down the tow path.

 

 

 

The frozen food is an idea. Although I'm not sure about running a full size chest freezer on board, I can see this work with a daily re-supply along the route. But lets not get carried away.

 

Thanks for your replies, very helpfull.

[nb Innisfree]

Bloke on fuel boat on the K&A used to walk ahead a few hundred yards or so if there was a line of boats to knock and enquire if anything was required. He's the only one I have seen do this, it seemed to be very effective, lots of time saved stopping and backing up. By the time I see them most fuel boats have passed.

 

And a distinctive horn, bell or bugle like rag and bone men!

[luctor et emergo]

Bloke on fuel boat on the K&A used to walk ahead a few hundred yards or so if there was a line of boats to knock and enquire if anything was required. He's the only one I have seen do this, it seemed to be very effective, lots of time saved stopping and backing up. By the time I see them most fuel boats have passed.

 

And a distinctive horn, bell or bugle like rag and bone men!

 

 

Or an icecream van jingle...

 

 

I'll get my coat...

[nb Innisfree]

Or an icecream van jingle...

 

 

I'll get my coat...

 

Maybe, but seriously people need to be forewarned and have a little pow-wow and get ready for boarding! you musn't pass a potential customer, they may not really need anything but if it's convenient then they may just top up with fuel and have a quick p/o.

[mayalld]

The price of the pump out is going to be the clincher, I believe that a pump out at a station on the K&A cost around £20 ? So if a service like this would be something between £20 and £30, would that be o.k.? This is only a rough ball park figure of course, it depends largely on the cost of disposal, and licencing.

 

You are correct that the price will be a clincher.

 

However, I'm not sure that your view of the comparative worth of your service to land-based services is correct.

 

You see your service as being worth a price premium over the land based services, because you come to the customer. However, you need to account for the fact that you don't come to the customer on-demand. The customer is tied to your schedule. If you are to cover a sufficient length of the canal to build up a sizeable customer base, that schedule proisn't going to involve going past them every two days. Indeed, if you did pass again two days later, you probably aren't going to find much custom on the second run.

 

So, let us say that you go are passing every two to three weeks. Boaters that you service are going to be having pump-outs when the tank is some way off full, so during a year, they will have the boat pumped out more times.

 

That tends to suggest that your price will need to be lower to encourage people to use you rather than waiting until the lank is full.

 

My guess is that the two will cancel out, and that such a service will attract custom if priced the same as land-based pump-outs.

[Woollymishka]

I appreciate this is a long way from the K & A, but there is a boat pump out available at Gas Street basin (Brum) which we used in august - the guy operating it was Cliff (I think) and it seems he was doing 4 pump outs a day.

Obviously Gas Street is somewhat different to the K & A? well it was the last time I was on the K & A.

[deletedaccount]

Serviced pump out at Bath Narrowboats is £20 and I'd probably pay that every 3 weeks. For that money they pump out, wash through then stick some blue in.

 

The main problem is if it fills up before you went past I'll be cursing. You'd need a regular, predictable round. I quite like the 'contract' idea if it meant I never had to worry about pumping out. You'd just do it every couple of weeks on your way past.