Is It Acceptable To Cruise Normally at 2 miles per hour ?

[NB Alnwick]

We are happy to let anyone who is going faster than us overtake - as long as we are not within lock D/S markers. BUT

 

When letting people round we reserve the right to wait for a bit of canal which is wide enough and where you can see nothing is coming. Some clowns won't wait and go on like they are being chased by the police diving out on blind bends or straight toward oncoming boats.

 

As far as we are concerned it is for the boat being overtaken to say when and to help in the manouver. It's up to the boat crew behind to act sensibley and , when offered the road not to charge into the boat in front expecting it somehow to disappear.

 

Having said that the boat in front should say when we have wanted to overtake some right idiots in our time who seemed dedicated to not letting boats pass them. A couple these come to mind...

 

One was on tickover having moved off in front of us. I don't think the move off was deliberate but once in front he first ignored us (The wife asking from the front 3-4 times) before finally saying he would not let us round and placing himself in mid canal.

On another occassion we found the boat in front - which moved off from mooring as we came through Sutton Stop and had then gone away from us - suddenly slowed and went all over the cut as the share owner wanted to give his wife driving lessons. Having crawled a bit we asked to pass and they swopped over and he charged off - for one bend - then the lessons continued as we near piled into their backend. At our asking we had a repeat of race crawl no less than 3 times. By this stage we knew our mooring was going to take hours to reach so we moored up near Newbold tunnel. Next day we saw them heading back - her steering and a queue of boats behind them.

 

Possibly but Your last paragraph raises an interesting point. It has always been my experience that women make excellent 'helmsmen' and I don't believe I have ever seen what I would regard as a 'speeding' boat with a woman at the helm. Perhaps some men are just too agressive/competitive.

[Guest]

You have moved this topic from boats "wishing to exceed 2mph when behind a slow boat" (that is what the pole implies) to one of people exceeding the speed limit.

[nb Innisfree]

If I had my way there would be BW officers with radar speed guns out and about to catch them and conviscate their boats before the canal banks are completely ruined.

 

And regular checks to see if boats come up to scratch and look the part, no more 'scruffy' boats, plastic bags on mooring stakes and while we're at it confiscate those silly pirates hats.

 

You'll all be laughing on the other side of your face when I'm in charge

Edited August 30, 2009 by nb Innisfree

[tomsk]

The assertion whether stated or implyed that the canals are are place for trying to achieve competitive speed and the use of words like 'overtaking' are (in my view) a nonsense. This is not what leisure boating on the canals is about.

 

Even the use of the word 'impeded' infers that there is some imperitive need for someone to make rapid progress.

 

The canals are not a race track and a skilled boater will find that he or she can comfortably cover just as many miles in a day (without need for exceeding, say 2 to 3 mph past moored boats or travelling faster than 3.5 mph on open water) as those who appear to be impatient and insist on pressing on as fast as they can at every oportunity.

 

I was recently 'overtaken' by an angry boater who asserted that his boat "couldn't go any slower" - he stormed past me with a huge wash on the Oxford summit and continued to create a breaking wash until he disappeared from view - I caught him up again at Claydon Locks some five miles or so later - what had he gained other than the chance to go through a lock before me? And, I would have let him go first anyway because I was single handed and he had crew. On another similar occasion, I caught up with the speeding boater after he had managed to ram the bank and put himself aground on one of the sharp corners - I see these speed merchants on a regular basis and their claim that it isn't possible to steer a boat at slow speed only betrays their lack of skill and experience.

 

If I had my way there would be BW officers with radar speed guns out and about to catch them and conviscate their boats before the canal banks are completely ruined.

 

You seem to be using extreme examples of stupidity to tar all with a particually emotive brush. Impeded means........ oh look it up, I cant be arsed....lol...Got in the way, or similar, but does not relate to speed, more position. Love the speed gun idea, although I have had to change my strides as I soiled myself through laughing so vigorously.

Edited August 30, 2009 by tomsk

[Tiny]

Possibly but Your last paragraph raises an interesting point. It has always been my experience that women make excellent 'helmsmen' and I don't believe I have ever seen what I would regard as a 'speeding' boat with a woman at the helm. Perhaps some men are just too agressive/competitive.

 

I have and some of the old Hyacinth Bucket battleaxes that I have let round are the worse down the middlers and then charge into the distance. (Normally to get a bit further down the cut before mooring to power their noses from those we pass moored soon after the overtake.)

 

If I had my way there would be BW officers with radar speed guns out and about to catch them and conviscate their boats before the canal banks are completely ruined.

 

 

You can set up your own speed trap. Two sticks in the towpath a set distance apart (88yds). A watch with a second hand and you time boats between the sticks. The time they take is for 1/20th of a mile. 4 miles an hour is 15 minutes a mile so any boat taking less than 45 seconds to get from one stick to the next is exceeding 4mph. And, of course anyone taking more than 90 seconds is doing less than 2mph.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Tiny

[alan_fincher]

You have moved this topic from boats "wishing to exceed 2mph when behind a slow boat" (that is what the pole implies) to one of people exceeding the speed limit.

Precisely.

 

I really can't see what people potentially exceeding the stated speed limits have to do with a question about how you handle people who wish to travel consistently at half that speed or less.

 

It's OK saying, "but I caught the overtaker up at the next lock", (or similar), but what if the next lock is 15 miles away ? To get there at 2 mph will take 7.5 hours, increase that to 3.5 mph and it comes down to 4.3 hours. In that extreme case is the person at the head really justified in adding over 3 hours to the time the otherwise faster person would take, (OK, OK, some of that the faster person would be slowing down for other reasons, I'll admit, but so might the "2mph on open water" person!).

 

I've not seen the point raised in another thread answered. If it is OK to expect to tuck n behind someone doing 2 mph, is it still OK if they chose 1 mph ? If 1 mph is OK, what about half a mile per hour..... Etc., etc.

 

On the other hand, if speeding worries you, isn't it BW's responsibility to enforce how fast irresponsible boats travel ? If someone was doing 100 mph up the M1, I shouldn't take it upon myself to sit in front of them at 70 mph, should I ? (Or a better analogy, force them to slow to 35 mph - half the speed at which they are legally allowed to travel, which is what we are discussing in the boating question).

[PhilR]

One thing that hasn't been discussed on this topic is WHY some boaters dawdle at 2 mph and frequently refuse to allow other boaters to pass. I reckon in many cases it might be due to:

1. They might lack the experience and knowledge of HOW to let a boat pass safely.

2. They have probably run themselves aground several times when doing so on previous occasions and probably don't realise/won't accept that might have been due to their own incompetence or lack of experience.

3. Sheer bloody-mindedness.

[Guest]

One thing that hasn't been discussed on this topic is WHY some boaters dawdle at 2 mph and frequently refuse to allow other boaters to pass. I reckon in many cases it might be due to:

1. They might lack the experience and knowledge of HOW to let a boat pass safely.

2. They have probably run themselves aground several times when doing so on previous occasions and probably don't realise/won't accept that might have been due to their own incompetence or lack of experience.

3. Sheer bloody-mindedness.

4. Ignorance

[Kraken]

The assertion whether stated or implyed that the canals are are place for trying to achieve competitive speed and the use of words like 'overtaking' are (in my view) a nonsense. This is not what leisure boating on the canals is about.

 

Even the use of the word 'impeded' infers that there is some imperitive need for someone to make rapid progress.

 

The canals are not a race track and a skilled boater will find that he or she can comfortably cover just as many miles in a day (without need for exceeding, say 2 to 3 mph past moored boats or travelling faster than 3.5 mph on open water) as those who appear to be impatient and insist on pressing on as fast as they can at every oportunity.

 

I was recently 'overtaken' by an angry boater who asserted that his boat "couldn't go any slower" - he stormed past me with a huge wash on the Oxford summit and continued to create a breaking wash until he disappeared from view - I caught him up again at Claydon Locks some five miles or so later - what had he gained other than the chance to go through a lock before me? And, I would have let him go first anyway because I was single handed and he had crew. On another similar occasion, I caught up with the speeding boater after he had managed to ram the bank and put himself aground on one of the sharp corners - I see these speed merchants on a regular basis and their claim that it isn't possible to steer a boat at slow speed only betrays their lack of skill and experience.

 

If I had my way there would be BW officers with radar speed guns out and about to catch them and conviscate their boats before the canal banks are completely ruined.

 

Still no reference to nonsense in a specific post then? OK fair enough, I guess it’s just your general impression that this thread contains nonsense. But I really just don’t understand you. The word impeded infers that there is some imperative need for someone to make rapid progress? Surely that in itself is nonsense. Never mind the fact that no one, even at four miles per hour, is making rapid progress. The use of words like overtaking is a nonsense? How else does one boat get past another? Canals are a place for trying to achieve competitive speed? You’ve mentioned this before in another thread but no one here is talking about competition, and I have never seen any competition on the canals. The canals are not a race track? No one is saying that they are. No one is saying that anyone should exceed 2 or 3 mph passing moored boats (indeed, that’s probably too fast in most situations) or that anyone should exceed the 4 mph speed limit. And there is no problem exceeding 3.5 mph on open water on a wide deep, piled, concreted canal, for example. Just because one finds following another boat at 1.5 mph a bit tedious, doesn’t necessarily mean that they are “impatient and insist on pressing on as fast as they can at every opportunity”, but, of course, speed should always be below 4 mph or less as conditions dictate. Speed merchants you say? At 4 mph? It’s all degrees of slowness, depending on conditions. If you want to see speed and competition turn on the telly today and watch F1 or MotoGP. Everyone should be able to enjoy the canals in their own way, within the regulations and without unduly, interfering with other people’s enjoyment. But not everyone’s idea of relaxation and enjoyment exactly coincides with yours.

[Tiny]

One thing that hasn't been discussed on this topic is WHY some boaters dawdle at 2 mph and frequently refuse to allow other boaters to pass. I reckon in many cases it might be due to:

1. They might lack the experience and knowledge of HOW to let a boat pass safely.

2. They have probably run themselves aground several times when doing so on previous occasions and probably don't realise/won't accept that might have been due to their own incompetence or lack of experience.

3. Sheer bloody-mindedness.

 

We often deliberately run aground to get out the way of some types of overtakers. Their passage normally sucks us off.

[Guest]

Still no reference to nonsense in a specific post then? OK fair enough, I guess it’s just your general impression that this thread contains nonsense. But I really just don’t understand you. The word impeded infers that there is some imperative need for someone to make rapid progress? Surely that in itself is nonsense. Never mind the fact that no one, even at four miles per hour, is making rapid progress. The use of words like overtaking is a nonsense? How else does one boat get past another? Canals are a place for trying to achieve competitive speed? You’ve mentioned this before in another thread but no one here is talking about competition, and I have never seen any competition on the canals. The canals are not a race track? No one is saying that they are. No one is saying that anyone should exceed 2 or 3 mph passing moored boats (indeed, that’s probably too fast in most situations) or that anyone should exceed the 4 mph speed limit. And there is no problem exceeding 3.5 mph on open water on a wide deep, piled, concreted canal, for example. Just because one finds following another boat at 1.5 mph a bit tedious, doesn’t necessarily mean that they are “impatient and insist on pressing on as fast as they can at every opportunity”, but, of course, speed should always be below 4 mph or less as conditions dictate. Speed merchants you say? At 4 mph? It’s all degrees of slowness, depending on conditions. If you want to see speed and competition turn on the telly today and watch F1 or MotoGP. Everyone should be able to enjoy the canals in their own way, within the regulations and without unduly, interfering with other people’s enjoyment. But not everyone’s idea of relaxation and enjoyment exactly coincides with yours.

Exacerly, which is why, if I am in a dawdling mood, I move over and let others past who wish to proceed more quickly than I. It is not my business as to why they wish to go faster than me. It is however their right to go more quickly, providing they are not affecting others, or breaking maximum limits.

I always let GRP style cruisers past too.

 

We often deliberately run aground to get out the way of some types of overtakers. Their passage normally sucks us off.

Really? I'll give that a try sometime

[alan_fincher]

One thing that hasn't been discussed on this topic is WHY some boaters dawdle at 2 mph and frequently refuse to allow other boaters to pass. I reckon in many cases it might be due to:

1. They might lack the experience and knowledge of HOW to let a boat pass safely.

2. They have probably run themselves aground several times when doing so on previous occasions and probably don't realise/won't accept that might have been due to their own incompetence or lack of experience.

3. Sheer bloody-mindedness.

 

 

4. Ignorance

 

5. They have never been on a "helmsman's" course ?

 

Also, I'm intrigued that "the use of words like 'overtaking' are a nonsense". It seems to me the obvious words to use for one boat going past another where it is sensible for a faster one to move ahead. What is a better word, please, or am I really hearing an argument that it should never happen ? Should BW just introduce a "no overtaking, ever" clause in the licence conditions, instead ?

[NB Alnwick]

5. They have never been on a "helmsman's" course ?

 

Also, I'm intrigued that "the use of words like 'overtaking' are a nonsense". It seems to me the obvious words to use for one boat going past another where it is sensible for a faster one to move ahead. What is a better word, please, or am I really hearing an argument that it should never happen ? Should BW just introduce a "no overtaking, ever" clause in the licence conditions, instead ?

 

I suppose that when I think of overtaking I think of the sort of thing that happens on a road. When a road vehicle overtakes all the risk is taken by the person overtaking and (unless the vehicle then cuts in and effectively shortens the safety margin allowed in front of the overtaken vehicle) the overtaken vehicle is unaffected.

 

This does not happen in the same way on the water. If I decide to push past your boat with mine it will take a considerable time and the movement of water will effect the handling of the boat being overtaken. Such manoeuvres, therefore need carefully planning and the co-operation of both parties.

 

In this thread we have talked about boats doing 2 mph but I don't think I have often encountered a boat going that slowly unless approaching a hazard, passing moored boats or mooring up. In my experience, particularly on the Oxford Canal and Grand Union Leicester Section, boats generally travel on open water at between 3.3 and 3.7 mph so the difference in speed would be less than half a mile an hour and assuming that the faster boat will already have slowed to the speed of the boat it wishes to pass the time taken for the manoeuvre must also include the time taken to accelerate to passing speed - so we end up with a speed difference of less than half a mile an hour between two boats on a parallel course.

 

If at all possible, if I feel I am holding up someone, I will try and pull in to the side and let them pass safely while I hold the boat on the centre line - but this isn't always possible everywhere.

[AMModels]

In this thread we have talked about boats doing 2 mph but I don't think I have often encountered a boat going that slowly unless approaching a hazard, passing moored boats or mooring up. In my experience, particularly on the Oxford Canal and Grand Union Leicester Section, boats generally travel on open water at between 3.3 and 3.7 mph so the difference in speed would be less than half a mile an hour and assuming that the faster boat will already have slowed to the speed of the boat it wishes to pass the time taken for the manoeuvre must also include the time taken to accelerate to passing speed - so we end up with a speed difference of less than half a mile an hour between two boats on a parallel course.

 

If at all possible, if I feel I am holding up someone, I will try and pull in to the side and let them pass safely while I hold the boat on the centre line - but this isn't always possible everywhere.

 

I think when there is such a small difference its not worth the effort of passing someone Id just slow down and sit behind them, only time Id do something different is on the BCN when Id want a larger distance between us to allow some of the rubbish to settle back to the bottom.

As for pulling in dont you find that if you slow right down and the other boat passes sensibly your deeper draught gives you a steadier platform and less movement as they go by?

 

One place I have done 4mph and loved it was taking Sagitta to PB national a few years ago we passed the site and carried on to runcorn I think to wind, the cut up that way is lovely and deep and opened up she certainlt moved sweetly through the water but I think thats probably one of the very few times Ive approached/possibly passed 4mph on a canal.

[Guest]

I suppose that when I think of overtaking I think of the sort of thing that happens on a road. When a road vehicle overtakes all the risk is taken by the person overtaking and (unless the vehicle then cuts in and effectively shortens the safety margin allowed in front of the overtaken vehicle) the overtaken vehicle is unaffected.

 

This does not happen in the same way on the water. If I decide to push past your boat with mine it will take a considerable time and the movement of water will effect the handling of the boat being overtaken. Such manoeuvres, therefore need carefully planning and the co-operation of both parties.

 

In this thread we have talked about boats doing 2 mph but I don't think I have often encountered a boat going that slowly unless approaching a hazard, passing moored boats or mooring up. In my experience, particularly on the Oxford Canal and Grand Union Leicester Section, boats generally travel on open water at between 3.3 and 3.7 mph so the difference in speed would be less than half a mile an hour and assuming that the faster boat will already have slowed to the speed of the boat it wishes to pass the time taken for the manoeuvre must also include the time taken to accelerate to passing speed - so we end up with a speed difference of less than half a mile an hour between two boats on a parallel course.

 

If at all possible, if I feel I am holding up someone, I will try and pull in to the side and let them pass safely while I hold the boat on the centre line - but this isn't always possible everywhere.

I agree with what you are saying here. An overtaking manouvre in a narrow channel, with a very small speed differential does require care. That is precisely why I would pull over and drop out of gear should I feel the need, in order to let the overtaking boat make the manouvre as quickly as possible.

[Night Hawk]

Well....(dragging out his soap box)...I neither speed nor dawdle....On long straights I try not to let my bow wave break...and on contour canals I cruise at a speed suitable enough not to get stuck on corners...Regarding the poll, I don't care a fig what speed other boaters go whilst cruising the cut...I'll let speed-queens behind me pass (overtake) as and when but I won't make any particular effort to move too far over incase I get grounded...If I feel I have to pass someone then I'll do so where and when appropriate. What sends my blood pressure thru the roof is..erm....'tillergating' or is it 'tailgating'..when a craft behind is nearly fender to fender with mine......Do forum members have a 'polite' distance that they try and keep from boaters infront.....what's your 'polite' distance?

[NB Alnwick]

Well....(dragging out his soap box)...I neither speed nor dawdle....On long straights I try not to let my bow wave break...and on contour canals I cruise at a speed suitable enough not to get stuck on corners...Regarding the poll, I don't care a fig what speed other boaters go whilst cruising the cut...I'll let speed-queens behind me pass (overtake) as and when but I won't make any particular effort to move too far over incase I get grounded...If I feel I have to pass someone then I'll do so where and when appropriate. What sends my blood pressure thru the roof is..erm....'tillergating' or is it 'tailgating'..when a craft behind is nearly fender to fender with mine......Do forum members have a 'polite' distance that they try and keep from boaters infront.....what's your 'polite' distance?

 

A polite distance really depends on who it is

 

As for 'tillergating', we keep at least one of stern torpedo tubes loaded and primed . . .

[AMModels]

A polite distance really depends on who it is

 

As for 'tillergating', we keep at least one of stern torpedo tubes loaded and primed . . .

 

Love that image, as a child I used to sit with a leg either side of the stem post...I know I know, and would shout orders to my crew below to ready tubes 1 through 6 and the t stud was a handy firing mechanism for any (mainly tupperware) boats that crossed my path. I was a great shot and never missed.....luckily no evidence has ever been found of my maniacal leanings as a child.

[alan_fincher]

In this thread we have talked about boats doing 2 mph but I don't think I have often encountered a boat going that slowly unless approaching a hazard, passing moored boats or mooring up.

If I could make that statement, I'm not sure I would have bothered to start the poll.

 

This year, (much more than previously), we regularly found ourselves behind very slow movers, and whilst not all were at 2mph or less, a lot were, and very significant numbers were nowhere near 3 mph, even on long deep straights with decent piling.

 

If my speed isn't hugely different from the boat I have caught up, then I am certainly not going to end up tail-gating or otherwise pressuring them. I'm happy to ease up a little

 

I don't actually particularly enjoy overtaking, not because I don't know how to, but because often those signalling you past do unpredictable things, or indicate to do so at a place I think is wholly inappropriate. Too often have I been invited past only to have them open up again as I'm half way past, so I now only ever go if I am happy that there is space to handle obstacles they might throw at me, and ideally a "get out" clause if they are very silly.

 

To restore some balance, I must emphasise that many times we caught up boats who pulled over and waved us on with almost unnecessary haste, even though we were holding back. Most times, (in fact nearly all times), people were entirely reasonable. I do, however, distinctly get the impression that a very small minority of boaters get a smug satisfaction by playing the "I haven't seen you" game, and then seeing how slowly then can make you go. That's a totally different ball-game from the hirer, just out of the hire base, who lacks the confidence to go faster, or to let you pass. Their position I can fully understand, and don't have an issue with at all, but I can't understand why an experienced hand wants to dictate how I ought to travel. I'm still waiting for one of them to provide their reasoning.

 

I'm starting to feel like a tape loop, though.

 

 

....luckily no evidence has ever been found of my maniacal leanings as a child.

Oh no, please don't use that word!

 

I got in enough deep water for using a similar word the other day, which ended up as getting translated to the same word.

[AMModels]

as someone with manic depression I feel qualified and able to use the word without fear of contradiction and censure lol.

[NB Alnwick]

I'm starting to feel like a tape loop, though.

 

I would be very surprised . . .

[NB Alnwick]

Love that image, as a child I used to sit with a leg either side of the stem post...I know I know, and would shout orders to my crew below to ready tubes 1 through 6 and the t stud was a handy firing mechanism for any (mainly tupperware) boats that crossed my path. I was a great shot and never missed.....luckily no evidence has ever been found of my maniacal leanings as a child.

 

After we have moored-up at night, I often shout down "Finished with engines" - mimicking Jack Hawkins in his role as the captain of Compass Rose in the film 'Cruel Sea' - we can all enjoy a bit of fun without being accused of being nuts!

[nb Innisfree]

We like to cruise at 1400rpm the sweetest speed for our engine, this happens to equate to 3mph exactly but find that the majority of boats tend to exceed this slightly so if there are a few boats around we tend to push to 1500 to 'fit in' with others and relax more.

 

So I would say most NBs cruise about 3.5 mph

[homer2911]

We often deliberately run aground to get out the way of some types of overtakers. Their passage normally sucks us off.

 

 

After we have moored-up at night, I often shout down "Finished with engines" - mimicking Jack Hawkins in his role as the captain of Compass Rose in the film 'Cruel Sea' - we can all enjoy a bit of fun without being accused of being nuts!

 

Didn't he die in that film?

 

We like to cruise at 1400rpm the sweetest speed for our engine, this happens to equate to 3mph exactly but find that the majority of boats tend to exceed this slightly so if there are a few boats around we tend to push to 1500 to 'fit in' with others and relax more.

 

So I would say most NBs cruise about 3.5 mph

 

And so they do - but this thread is about the annoying, unthinking minority who cruise at a vastly lower speed without regard for the presence behind them of boats wishing to cruise at 3.5mph

[saltysplash]

After we have moored-up at night, I often shout down "Finished with engines" - mimicking Jack Hawkins in his role as the captain of Compass Rose in the film 'Cruel Sea' - we can all enjoy a bit of fun without being accused of being nuts!

 

 

And my quote from the Cruel Sea, when stepping inside and Swmbo hands me my first Bacardi and coke is "close all watertight doors and prepare to take in tow"