Some historical questions

[Guest User]

This is absolutely standard practice hereabouts.

 

New beams often remain unpainted for several years.

 

Personally I don't agree though about the appearance thing - I think some of the newly installed gates and beams look superb "in the raw". The standard of craftsmanship looks so much better before being smothered in tar in my view.

 

Particularly impressive are cases like Hunton Bridge where both ends have been re-gated at the same time - something I never recall seeing before on the lower reaches of the GU.

 

The tragedy though, is top gate renewals that have gone back to omitting the gate paddles - a very retrograde step after a spell where gate paddles generally were included, (albeit with those horrible "baffles" that massively slowed the flow).

Yes, I can see its a matter of taste from the aesthetic point of view. I wonder which lasts longer, painted or raw ? The raw beams I saw had shivered quite badly and seemed very sodden in the rain.

 

Fully agree about the gate paddles.

[alan_fincher]

 

I assume they last better painted, and the primary purpose of painting is protection rather than appearance.

 

I have no idea though why it is often several years before paint is first applied. Is it bad management, or do they deliberately allow some weathering first, for some reason I've not latched on to ?

 

It's unusual to see what appear to be the original two ground paddles left in situ, when the whole of the top gates and balance beams have been replaced. Looks strange with only them painted.

 

A blessing at that location is the loss of a pair of very nasty, very low, very thin, steel balance beams, a bit like railway lines, to be replaced by nice wood ones that you can put some back into, without injuring yourselves.

 

I hope this doesn't represent a trend back to all GU (southern) top gate renewals being done without paddles though - that would be a real shame.

[Derek R.]

Sorry, I'm a teacher, I'm not allowed work in £sd any more! I couldn't find anything quickly about the depth of the tunnel quickly, so I guesstimated from a map - quite a bit more than 30 metres, then.

 

I like the idea of the white ends of the balance beams as being visible at night.

 

Refer me to the Act that says you are not 'allowed'?

 

Thought Police? Not in my head.

 

Derek

Edited May 3, 2009 by Derek R.

[Catrin]

Refer me to the Act that says you are not 'allowed'?

 

Thought Police? Not in my head.

 

Derek

OK, that was meant to be tongue in cheek - the truth is that when our kids were first at school they didn't understand what I was talking about when I talked about feet and inches - so I switched to thinking in metres and centimetres to make it easier for them. As a teacher I find that it doesn't help my students if I talk about feet and inches - and it's far easier to get them to use spreadsheets with measurement in centimetres and metres than it would be in feet and inches (and kilos rather than pounds and ounces) - for a start that is all that they have ever known.

cheers

Cath

[Blossom]

As a teacher I find that it doesn't help my students if I talk about feet and inches - and it's far easier to get them to use spreadsheets with measurement in centimetres and metres than it would be in feet and inches --- for a start that is all that they have ever known.

cheers

Cath

 

(Not a personal dig Cath but one aimed at the educational system) for when will they learn that industry does not use centimetres but work in metres and millimetres and that it takes forever to get school leavers/apprentices to give up centimetres and converse in the universal engineering language!

[Catrin]

(Not a personal dig Cath but one aimed at the educational system) for when will they learn that industry does not use centimetres but work in metres and millimetres and that it takes forever to get school leavers/apprentices to give up centimetres and converse in the universal engineering language!

Our technology department uses metres and millimetres. I teach ICT, so what I teach is closer to what Maths and Business teach - and I try at all times to fit what I'm doing to what seems most appropriate to the scenario, and to the age and ability of the students. I do appreciate the problem - our son is studying engineering - but surely what schools really need to do is to make the students flexible and able to use whatever is most appropriate to the situation (not always easy, I know).

 

However, just thinking about this has given me some good ideas to add into the overhaul of the year 7 scheme of work that I'm currently thinking about for September, so thanks.

Cheers

Cath

[Derek R.]

OK, that was meant to be tongue in cheek - the truth is that when our kids were first at school they didn't understand what I was talking about when I talked about feet and inches - so I switched to thinking in metres and centimetres to make it easier for them. As a teacher I find that it doesn't help my students if I talk about feet and inches - and it's far easier to get them to use spreadsheets with measurement in centimetres and metres than it would be in feet and inches (and kilos rather than pounds and ounces) - for a start that is all that they have ever known.

cheers

Cath

 

Granted, but what easier than to refer to a foot as the length of a mans foot, and an inch as the width of a thumb. I teach my daughters Imperial, as it gives them a wider understanding of our historic past. It is what I was taught in school, and metrication - whilst admirable for many things - is not the only way of measuring and weighing. Even in computer software, measurements in inches can be an option, though convenience gives metric the lead.

 

I just get frustrated at times, when so many people are campaigning for the retention of historic canals, artefacts, buildings, basins, and boats, that something amounting to irreverence is thrown at the Imperial system that was used to build those very things we campaign for. It's a stone arched bridge and balustrade, compared to a flat concrete slab.

 

Nothing personal Cath, I just feel it a sad loss to an educational system.

[Hobbler]

Many lock beams on the Shropshire Union (e.g. the Audlem flight) are painted grey and white. Rumour has it that someone ordered the wrong paint and they had to use it up somewhere ...

 

One story is that there was a cheap supply of Battleship Grey after World War 1 and being strapped for cash the canal company bought a job lot for its lock gates .

 

Another story is that the Shroppie Bridges were painted white in World War 2 to assist aircraft navigation as there were a number of training airfields near the canal (Wheaton Aston for example) , however this was so successfull the Luftwaffe also used them as an aid when heading for Liverpool and extra anti aircraft gun sites had to be set up along the route of the canal .

[Tiny]

I seem to remember one early way to keep the air fresh in a shaft was to light a fire to draw the foul are up. When canal tunnels started to be built the art of creating deep straight tunnels was already well known and some of those tunnels were much deeper than canal tunnels. Those at Worsley were on many levels for example. In other places millrights like Brindley tunnelled to get water to their wheels. I know one Brindley sytem actually used a sy[hon to go under a river to feed a wheel connected to a mine. Some of Brindley's works were so large that they created mill pools large enough to be lakes thought to be natural - until the stones to create the dam were found under the banking.

 

As to painting lock gates. Some years back I was on the Thames and chatting to a keeper. He was most unhappy as down there so genius had decided that in future the (grey) gate beams would be left unpainted. One go ahaed type had immediately complied and his beams were rotting two years on. Now the keeper here, who ignored the order had been told it was loose job or leave unpainted and he was very angrey as he did not want his beams rotting away!

 

 

Incidentally long ago BW used to paint all four sides (Top, bottom, and two vertical ones) of their lock beams. Nowadays they slap paint on top and vertical sides. However they do this (to make them pretty) on the beams of both the doubled locks on Heartbreak Hill - even if one set of beams are on a lock that has been out of use for years and whose gates and chamber are rotting away.

(Question - are there new bollards on these unused locks does anyone know?)

 

[alan_fincher]

EDIT:

 

Post removed - should have read original more closely!

Edited May 3, 2009 by alan_fincher

[Hairy-Neil]

(Question - are there new bollards on these unused locks does anyone know?)

 

Last time I used Heartbreak hill there was only the one gated, but out of use lock.

[David Schweizer]

 

I assume they last better painted, and the primary purpose of painting is protection rather than appearance.

 

I have no idea though why it is often several years before paint is first applied. Is it bad management, or do they deliberately allow some weathering first, for some reason I've not latched on to ?

 

It's unusual to see what appear to be the original two ground paddles left in situ, when the whole of the top gates and balance beams have been replaced. Looks strange with only them painted.

 

A blessing at that location is the loss of a pair of very nasty, very low, very thin, steel balance beams, a bit like railway lines, to be replaced by nice wood ones that you can put some back into, without injuring yourselves.

 

I hope this doesn't represent a trend back to all GU (southern) top gate renewals being done without paddles though - that would be a real shame.

I suspect that the modern gates are soaked in a preservative, and that is why they are not painted for several years. Have you ever tried to make paint stick on preserved timber? it comes off in no time.

[alan_fincher]

I suspect that the modern gates are soaked in a preservative, and that is why they are not painted for several years. Have you ever tried to make paint stick on preserved timber? it comes off in no time.

Well just to confound the new oak gates that we photographed only a month or so back have been given the works in black and white.

 

So having said they regularly leave them unpainted around here for several years before painting, it seems that in this case they have painted them almost immediately.

 

 

Well, everywhere except the underneath of the balance beam, which they have failed to paint at all.

 

 

Whilst the craftsmanship on the new gates looks fully up to old standards, I fear some of the oak used may be very sub-standard - time, I'm sure, will tell!

[County4x4]

I think it will be interesting to see the results of painted versus non-painted balance beams etc in a few years.

 

Having recently repainted most of the locks on the Glasson branch of the Lancaster Canal, I'm rather in two minds. From what I've seen, in many cases the paint is serving simply to seal IN moisture and the balance beams are rotting from the inside out as a result. When you peel large flakes off or large blisters comprising of many accumulated layers of paint, the wood underneath is often wet and rotting as it's unable to breathe.

 

As far as I know, the newest set of gates are being left unpainted as a test case, with only the ends of the balance beams being painted white - more as a visual aid to people in the dark than as a cosmetic exercise. Talking to some of the old hands, it seems that "back in the day", the preferred approach involved boiling up tar and adding creosote. The swans all had tide marks, but neither they, or the other wildlife on the canal seemed to suffer any ill effects as a result. I guess everything had reached some kind of happy equilibrium.

 

Sometimes the black and white colour scheme is obviously cosmetic - when used on galvanised footbridges for instance where the paint does not adhere well and you therefore create a rod for your own back as regular repainting is then required as it all flakes off again. Underneath all that though there is perfectly good galvanising which would have served perfectly well in it's "natural state" as protection for the steelwork.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[Timleech]

I seem to remember one early way to keep the air fresh in a shaft was to light a fire to draw the foul are up.

 

That only works if you have two shafts, one to allow fresh air in.

With a single shaft, such as you might have in a tunnel under construction, you would need some way to force fresh air down to the bottom.

 

Tim

 

 

I seem to remember one early way to keep the air fresh in a shaft was to light a fire to draw the foul are up.

 

That only works if you have two shafts, one to allow fresh air in.

With a single shaft, such as you might have in a tunnel under construction, you would need some way to force fresh air down to the bottom.

 

Tim

[Guest User]

I think it will be interesting to see the results of painted versus non-painted balance beams etc in a few years..... Talking to some of the old hands, it seems that "back in the day", the preferred approach involved boiling up tar and adding creosote.

 

My Grandfather (ex railways) used a mixture of creosote and old engine oil to paint his shed and fence, it was very, very black, but the wood never showed signs of decay. Plus it saved having to dispose of the old engine oil

[County4x4]

My Grandfather (ex railways) used a mixture of creosote and old engine oil to paint his shed and fence, it was very, very black, but the wood never showed signs of decay. Plus it saved having to dispose of the old engine oil

 

Now that's brought back some memories!

 

My Grandad who worked on the railway at Langwith Junction all his life had a shed in his back garden where he used to keep his prize winning canaries. He was also sent out there by Grandma when his pipe was due for an appearance, and used to sit on the step to the shed with Ricky, his faithful old dog on a stool next to him, while he tamped and blew cinders about the place. As a child of about nine I absolutely adored the smell of that shed - especially when everything was warm on a summer evening. It was all tar and creosote and mixed with the smell of the smoke from his aromatic tobacco......ahhhhhh. Happy days indeed.

 

My other Grandad was a collier, and one of the first people in Pinxton to own a motor car! He had a shed that was covered in some kind of thick tarred material - a bit like smooth roofing felt - and it used to sort of "weep" little patches of liquid tar on the surface in a hot summer. I reckon both these sheds would probably still be standing today if the Grandads were still around. They don't make 'em like that any more!

 

Andy

[davel]

My Grandfather (ex railways) used a mixture of creosote and old engine oil to paint his shed and fence, it was very, very black, but the wood never showed signs of decay. Plus it saved having to dispose of the old engine oil

 

My Grandfather bought a second hand shed in the late 50's and painted it regularly with creosote. My Father paints it occasionally with creosote (proper coal tar creosote) and it is still going strong as Ma's potting shed. Mind you it makes your eyes water when you're working in it on a hot summers day,

[Derek R.]

Sweet the simple pleasures! The shed my dad bought back around 1953 (3'x4') is still doing sterling service, though having been shifted 3 times. Only replacement is the base which I knocked up from second hand timber 25yrs ago. Creosoted now and then - the real stuff, some left over from better days - and brings back many childhood memories for me. I can well imagine a Granddad with his pipe, though my strongest memories are of sitting in it on a rainy day hearing the rain patter on the roof, the door just ajar, and painting Sea shells different colours from a tin box.

 

Derek

[Speedwheel]

[Derek R.]

Oi! 'Op it!

 

Wrong shed. That was Dalraddy.

 

 

Right shed.

[Guest User]

Oi! ....

 

.... Right shed.

 

That's the sort of thing alright

Edited May 26, 2009 by Graham!