Alternator Paralleler Circuit

[carlt]

I owe you and Gibbo an apology as you are quite right. The W connection is indeed about 2v above the B+ connection.

 

 

So apologies again for my dogmatic, but incorrect, view which clearly shows that Saga moments are for real.

 

Chris

Henceforth 19 May will be known as..."The day Chris w admitted he was wrong!"

 

 

 

which clearly shows that Saga moments are for real.

that was an awfully long "moment" to be blamed on Saga.

[chris w]

Henceforth 19 May will be known as..."The day Chris w admitted he was wrong!"

There's a date coming up that you will remember too

[Gibbo]

I owe you and Gibbo an apology as you are quite right. The W connection is indeed about 2v above the B+ connection.

 

Good start. See, it didn't hurt did it! We're all yooman. We all make mistakes.

 

Now are you going to do it for the other 237 times it has happend?

 

 

Gibbo

[carlt]

There's a date coming up that you will remember too

I am quaking in my boots.

[chris w]

Good start. See, it didn't hurt did it! We're all yooman. We all make mistakes.

 

Now are you going to do it for the other 237 times it has happend?

 

 

Gibbo

I'll follow your lead.....

[Gibbo]

I'll follow your lead.....

 

Do you really want me to drag them all up?

 

Gibbo

[chris w]

Do you really want me to drag them all up?

 

Gibbo

We'll see whose list is longer

[Gibbo]

We'll see whose list is longer

 

Let's start with the saturated transistor shall we?

 

Oh and if your maths is as bad as it was in this thread you won't know whose list is longest

 

Gibbo

[carlt]

His lawyer will tell him.

[Gibbo]

His lawyer will tell him.

 

?

 

Spill the beans.

 

Gibbo

[chris w]

Oh and if your maths is as bad as it was in this thread you won't know whose list is longest

 

Gibbo

There was nothing wrong with my maths, just my memory. I recall your supporting the Amplepower article about the W connection being a half-wave rectified signal - which it is not, it's a simple 50% duty cycle square wave.

 

Hey - I've agreed I was incorrect on the W output issue - at least be a little gallant.

 

Chris

[carlt]

?

 

Spill the beans.

 

Gibbo

As Chris was (allegedly) making unsubstantiated accusations, of (alleged) criminal activity, against someone, and seemed to think he was perfectly entitled to, I (allegedly) decided to make the same allegations towards him, (allegedly) knowing exactly what his (alleged) reaction would be.

 

One rule for him, one for everyone else, so he is now going to sue me

 

I await my summons with gleeful anticipation.

Edited May 20, 2009 by carlt

[Gibbo]

There was nothing wrong with my maths, just my memory. I recall your supporting the Amplepower article about the W connection being a half-wave rectified signal - which it is not, it's a simple 50% duty cycle square wave.

 

 

I had a feeling that was coming. Read back through the thread. I thought you previously told me I had said it was a sinewave? Make your mind up.

 

The only reason you see a square wave is because it's clipped to hell and back as a result of the high current at the peaks and none elsewhere.

 

I was deliberately non committal on the waveshape for the specific reason that it can actually be a nastily clipped sinewave or a nastilly clipped half wave rectified sinewave depending upon the format of the alternator.

 

Hey - I've agreed I was incorrect on the W output issue - at least be a little gallant.

 

Despite the very strong temptation to do otherwise I'll try

 

Gibbo

[chris w]

I was deliberately non committal on the waveshape for the specific reason that it can actually be a nastily clipped sinewave or a nastilly clipped half wave rectified sinewave depending upon the format of the alternator.

 

Gibbo

You said, "This therefore raises the average voltage. It is therefore somewhat higher than 0.32 x the output voltage. And more than 0.32 x the output voltage (say 0.4 x) is "about one-half the DC output voltage" which is what the Amplepower website says." So you supported the half-wave rectified output idea.

 

It is one-half the output voltage but it's never going to be a half-wave rectified signal. Which alternator format would produce a half-wave output?

 

Chris

[Smelly]

So, being as the W terminal is AC, as it accepted, will the waveform be above the pull in voltage for long enough to close my latch relay as should i try it from D as originally suggested. I've had my concerns about W all along, although until tonight I've not had the diode across the latch relay.

 

Having tested the continuity last night with the earthing connected i have my doubts about W...

 

I've just raided Maplins for some more leuchars so once Bagpuss has fed me I'll be back at the testing...

[smileypete]

So, being as the W terminal is AC, as it accepted, will the waveform be above the pull in voltage for long enough to close my latch relay as should i try it from D as originally suggested. I've had my concerns about W all along, although until tonight I've not had the diode across the latch relay.

 

Having tested the continuity last night with the earthing connected i have my doubts about W...

 

I've just raided Maplins for some more leuchars so once Bagpuss has fed me I'll be back at the testing...

 

OK...

 

Have a look at the steps in post #168 (clicky)

 

Have you completed step 1)? If so did it work as described?

 

Have you completed step 2)? If so did it work as described?

 

Have you completed step 3)? If so did it work as described?

 

Have you completed step 4)? If so did it work as described?

 

and so on....

 

Edit: It might be worth printing that post out so you have it to hand when testing.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited May 19, 2009 by smileypete

[niloc]

Smelly i am in awe of your unabated enthusiasm.

[Smelly]

OK...

 

Have a look at the steps in post #168 (clicky)

 

Have you completed step 1)? If so did it work as described?

 

Have you completed step 2)? If so did it work as described?

 

Have you completed step 3)? If so did it work as described?

 

Have you completed step 4)? If so did it work as described?

 

and so on....

 

Edit: It might be worth printing that post out so you have it to hand when testing.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Step 1, that lamp lit AND the contactor closed...

 

Step 2, works with a raw 12v supply but not from W

 

Step 3, I know which one is my engine alt

 

Step 4, see step 2

 

Step 5, i think　Ｉ　ｎｅｅｄ　ａ　ｂｉｇｇｅｒ　ｂｕｌｂ　ｏｎ　ｌａｍｐ　２　２４　ｖｏｌｔｓ　ａｎｙｏｎｅ？（ｗｈｙ　ｄｏｅｓ　ｔｈｅ　ｆｏｎｔ　ｋｅｅｐ　ｓｕｄｄｅｎｌｙ　ｃｈａｎｇｉｎｇ？）

[Gibbo]

You said, "This therefore raises the average voltage. It is therefore somewhat higher than 0.32 x the output voltage. And more than 0.32 x the output voltage (say 0.4 x) is "about one-half the DC output voltage" which is what the Amplepower website says." So you supported the half-wave rectified output idea.

 

............even assuming they are right about the half rectified bit, which you didn't allude to at all. You alluded to a sine wave output in deriving the 7.2v above.................

 

More U turns than Michael Martin

 

I repeat. I was deliberately non committal on the waveform because it can be either. But the DC voltage is always about half the B+ output. As many of us said.

 

It is one-half the output voltage but it's never going to be a half-wave rectified signal. Which alternator format would produce a half-wave output?

 

Certain Mitsubishis and Hitachis that use a separate set of windings for the D+ and W terminal (half wave rectified). Behr and Powerline also made some like that.

 

They're the ones that the manuals for p-type only external regulators (Incharge, early Alpha Pro, Amplepower etc) warn that the D+ diode trio must be snipped out if the smoke is to be avoided.

 

Gibbo

[smileypete]

Step 1, that lamp lit AND the contactor closed...

 

Step 2, works with a raw 12v supply but not from W

 

Step 3, I know which one is my engine alt

 

Step 4, see step 2

 

Step 5, i think

Great! You're doing really well!!!

 

First of all, disconnect Lamp 2 as it shouldn't be needed, we now know the relay timing isn't an issue and it sounds like the contactor is wired up OK.

 

Then when you do step 4)

 

"4) Next connect the latch relay fuse to the tacho/W connection of the above identified alternator. When the engine is running press the pushbutton switch and check the Lamp 1 lights, and stays lit when the pushbutton is released. Stop the engine and check that Lamp 1 goes out indicating the latch relay has opened."

 

Does Lamp 1 light at all while the pushbutton switch is held down? If it does light up, does it glow more dimly compared to when it lights in step 2)?

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Smelly]

Great! You're doing really well!!!

 

Does Lamp 1 light at all while the pushbutton switch is held down? If it does light up, does it glow more dimly compared to when it lights in step 2)?

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Ｎｏｔｈｉｎｇ　ｏｎ　ｌａｍｐ　１　ｗｈｅｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｅｎｇｉｎｅ’ｓ　ｒｕｎｎｉｎｇ，　ａｌｔｈｏｕｇｈ　ｉｎｔｅｒｅｓｔｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｎｏｔｅ　ｔｈａｔ　ｔｈｅ　ｌｉｔｔｌｅ　ｉｎｄｉｃａｔｏｒ　ｌａｍｐ　ｉｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｓｗｉｔｃｈ　ｉ’ｖｅ　ｐｕｔ　ｏｎ　ｂｅｆｏｒｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｐｕｓｈｂｕｔｔｏｎ　ｌｉｇｈｔｓ　ｕｐ　ｗｈｅｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｐｕｓｈ　ｂｕｔｔｏｎ　ｉｓ　ｐｒｅｓｓｅｄ，　ｈｏｗｅｖｅｒ　ｌａｍｐ　２　ｄｏｅｓｎ’ｔ．

[smileypete]

Ｎｏｔｈｉｎｇ　ｏｎ　ｌａｍｐ　１　ｗｈｅｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｅｎｇｉｎｅ’ｓ　ｒｕｎｎｉｎｇ，　ａｌｔｈｏｕｇｈ　ｉｎｔｅｒｅｓｔｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｎｏｔｅ　ｔｈａｔ　ｔｈｅ　ｌｉｔｔｌｅ　ｉｎｄｉｃａｔｏｒ　ｌａｍｐ　ｉｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｓｗｉｔｃｈ　ｉ’ｖｅ　ｐｕｔ　ｏｎ　ｂｅｆｏｒｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｐｕｓｈｂｕｔｔｏｎ　ｌｉｇｈｔｓ　ｕｐ　ｗｈｅｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｐｕｓｈ　ｂｕｔｔｏｎ　ｉｓ　ｐｒｅｓｓｅｄ，　ｈｏｗｅｖｅｒ　ｌａｍｐ　２　ｄｏｅｓｎ’ｔ．

 

Err, could you try that again?

 

cheers,

Pete

[Smelly]

Ｗｅｌｌ，　Ｉ’ｖｅ　　Ｊｕｓｔ　ｅｎｏｕｇｈ　ｔｉｍｅ　ｔｏ　ｃｏｎｎｅｃｔ　ｔｏ　Ｄ　ｏｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｅｎｇｉｎｅ　ａｌｔ　ｓｏ　ｈｅｒｅ　ｇｏｅｓ．．．

[denboy]

too many eee`s or something i believe or BP has sabotaged his lappy

Edited May 19, 2009 by denboy

[smileypete]

too many eee`s or something i believe or BP has sabotaged his lappy

Hmm. Try rebooting your lappy Smelly!

 

Edit: Ground control to Major Smelly... Ground control to Major Smelly....

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited May 19, 2009 by smileypete