The boaters Lock Mate

[robertwardle]

Does anyone know where I can obtain information on the boaters lockmate. The device was featured on the TV programme Locks and Quays featuring Fred Talbot and the inventor on his boat "Just Roamin" which had been fitted with the device. The device works by radio control as per model boat or aeroplane, and is used to move the narrowboat remotely into and out of Locks whilst the single handed skipper is on top of the lock operating the gates. The BIG advantage for sole narrowboat operators or those with a disabled passenger, is that a lot of the rushing up and down going through locks on one's own is not neccessary. Please inform me of the manufacturer or where more information can be obtained on what could prove to be an invaluable product for sole narrowboat sailors.

Edited March 30, 2009 by robertwardle

[Gary Peacock]

It's not hard to do but BW didn't like the sound of it when I enquired.

 

I don't think they dared think about the potential hassle the HSE might give them.

[Athy]

April 1st is fast approaching, I see.

[magnetman]

It's not hard to do but BW didn't like the sound of it when I enquired.

 

I don't think they dared think about the potential hassle the HSE might give them.

 

I was thinking it'd be a bit of an insurance problem but then those Hiab and Palfinger type crane wagons have remote control and they are lifting things weighing several tons with every opportunity for the operator to be standing underneath so maybe it wouldn't be a problem driving a boat around on remote control?

 

and a lot of controls on modern engines are 'fly by wire' type anyway so removing the operator from direct control of the engine and steering isn't exacly unusual in fact most if not all new cars haven't even got a mechanical link between accelerator pedal and engine, relying on a rheostat instead...

 

I am uneasy about the idea of someone remotely controlling a boat weighing 15 tonnes around locks but it might be safer than them being at the tiller

[robertwardle]

I was thinking it'd be a bit of an insurance problem but then those Hiab and Palfinger type crane wagons have remote control and they are lifting things weighing several tons with every opportunity for the operator to be standing underneath so maybe it wouldn't be a problem driving a boat around on remote control?

 

and a lot of controls on modern engines are 'fly by wire' type anyway so removing the operator from direct control of the engine and steering isn't exacly unusual in fact most if not all new cars haven't even got a mechanical link between accelerator pedal and engine, relying on a rheostat instead...

 

I am uneasy about the idea of someone remotely controlling a boat weighing 15 tonnes around locks but it might be safer than them being at the tiller

 

 

Does anyone know where I can obtain information on the boaters lockmate. The device was featured on the TV programme Locks and Quays featuring Fred Talbot and the inventor on his boat "Just Roamin" which had been fitted with the device. The device works by radio control as per model boat or aeroplane, and is used to move the narrowboat remotely into and out of Locks whilst the single handed skipper is on top of the lock operating the gates. The BIG advantage for sole narrowboat operators or those with a disabled passenger, is that a lot of the rushing up and down going through locks on one's own is not neccessary. Please inform me of the manufacturer or where more information can be obtained on what could prove to be an invaluable product for sole narrowboat sailors.

Thank you for your observations to date. Robert

[blueprince]

While I understand the concept of a remote control boat, how is the boat moored while you're fiddling about with the lock? I would also like to point out that interference might be quite amusing, and other evil buggers are even now looking on ebay for cheap remote controllers to 'hi-jack' your boat.

[GSer]

A couple of years back I spotted a guy using a remote (wire not radio) to 'control' his boat while locking, it all seemed pretty pointless to me (and very time consuming) plenty of paint missing around his boat at both ends indicated to me that the problems he was having while i watched, were by no means a rare occourance.

He had to stand beside the boat above the lock (to untie his lines) then walk beside the boat into the lock. When the lock was emptied he still had to jump down onto the roof with the control box, just so he could miss the bridge below. He was still sat on his roof as he trundled away down the canal.

 

IMO pointless, but perhaps to the more Gadget minded amongst us it might be attractive, i'd guess it would be a bit like stern thrusters on a narrow boat.

 

Paul

[alan_fincher]

While I understand the concept of a remote control boat, how is the boat moored while you're fiddling about with the lock? I would also like to point out that interference might be quite amusing, and other evil buggers are even now looking on ebay for cheap remote controllers to 'hi-jack' your boat.

Or sharing a lock with someone else with the same equipment, where you are both using the same channel ?

[robertwardle]

Hi! Folks, you in the main dont much like the idea, of the boaters lock mate as described. How about a more positive response by saying how you would manoever a narrowboat through a fairly deep lock single handed, apart from the obvious amount of running up and down. Also, what about how you would deal with a flight of locks, using your method.Thank you. I expect the inventor of the bicycle had the same negative opinions dominating at that time.

[Athy]

Not a "negative opinion", Robert, I simply assumed that you were having an April Fool's joke. Don't tell me that this contraption really exists? Perhaps pigs fly over the lock whilst the boat is going through?

[alan_fincher]

How about a more positive response by saying how you would manoever a narrowboat through a fairly deep lock single handed, apart from the obvious amount of running up and down.

When working boatmen needed to get an un-powered boat through locks, (typically when working a butty with a motor on a narrow locked canal), they used this thing called "ropes".

 

They would pull on them to make the boat move, and wrap it round strapping posts or bollards to make it stop.

 

They did remarkably little running up and down - in fact they tended not to expend a jot of unnecessary effort.

 

Many members single handing their boats chose to do the same, having found it quicker than trying to use engines and to clamber on and off.

 

Do you have any connection with the person or company producing the Boater's Lock Mate, please ?

[robertwardle]

Not a "negative opinion", Robert, I simply assumed that you were having an April Fool's joke. Don't tell me that this contraption really exists? Perhaps pigs fly over the lock whilst the boat is going through?

Well as I said originally it was on the Locks and Quays programme, steering a narrowboat into and out of a lock, so maybe they were having a joke, but i doubt it......

[Natalie Graham]

Hello Robert,

 

There have been a few discussions of this previously:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=508

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2184

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=12355

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11003

[Athy]

Well as I said originally it was on the Locks and Quays programme, steering a narrowboat into and out of a lock, so maybe they were having a joke, but i doubt it......

I have turned the page of my calendar this morning and am well aware what the date is.

[FadeToScarlet]

While I understand the concept of a remote control boat, how is the boat moored while you're fiddling about with the lock?

 

You'd need a dynamic positioning system, like the oil-rig supply ships have- bow and stern thrusters, and a little magic box with a button. You push the button to tell the boat to stay where it is, and the box of tricks (using GPS) maneuvers the boat precisely in place. Or you can tell it to move towards the oil rig, but stay exactly one metre off the side of it, in conditions where humans just can't handle the boat precisely enough.

 

I was talking to a chap from the British Arctic Survey in the pub the other day, and apparently the system is great fun and very reliable.

 

If you can entrust a multi-million pound ship to a box of tricks, I'm sure narrowboats could have the same. That said, the Northampton arm isn't the North Sea....

[robertwardle]

Thank you Natalie, you have solved the problem!!

The Boaters Lock mate is made by Mick Thompson the man featured on Locks and Quays programme. Advertises in Waterways World publication and his phone no. is 01 384 70350 or mobile No. 07860 761971. I understand from him that the device has been very successful having sold many and costs about £2000 fitted.

So any would be lone sailors on the canals now know how to go it alone!!

Thank you all for taking the time to join the debate. Regards Robert

[david and julie]

Or sharing a lock with someone else with the same equipment, where you are both using the same channel ?

Its not a problem with well designed products.

 

I used to work in the vehicle recovery industry and we first started using remote control equipment about 20 years ago and at the time they were an absolute boon. We used "Lodar" kit which was good quality and could control both electric and hydraulic vehicle lifting and winching systems. Even in multiple use areas(such as motorway accidents where several trucks would be working close to each other) there were no problems. I am talking quality kit though - I have no idea whether the types used on boats are as good.

 

This is the type we used.

http://www.lodar.com/

[blueprince]

Hi! Folks, you in the main dont much like the idea, of the boaters lock mate as described. How about a more positive response by saying how you would manoever a narrowboat through a fairly deep lock single handed, apart from the obvious amount of running up and down. Also, what about how you would deal with a flight of locks, using your method.Thank you. I expect the inventor of the bicycle had the same negative opinions dominating at that time.

 

 

Oh, okay, a serious response, why bother with remote control? Why not position a couple of switches to either side of the boat to 'follow' the bank (picture a curved bit of coathanger connected to a microswitch in the simplest instance) and one at the front to stop the boat when it reaches the end of the lock?

 

I realise this is a simplistic description, but I've seen the same technology on small self assembly robots for school science kits, so it's cheap, ready built, and should be easy to adapt. It also wouldn't need steering, you just turn it on and go to the lock, your boat creeps along the bank and into the lock, you close and operate sluices, boat stays at front of lock. The main drawback to the small models I've seen is excessive 'hunting', but you could minimise that with a bit of fiddling, the wide variety of lock shapes/approaches would require some thought, and you'd have to make sure it followed the bank religiously, or be a really good jumper. The same problems would apply to any higher tech solution, and this would be a far cheaper mistake for when it all came apart. (sorry, serious is hard) You'd also have to be realistic in the fact that it would all come apart until you'd got it right.

 

points:

 

non physical switches, you could use an EM field(TV/radio antenna) to measure bank distance's and lock end point, no irritating guide wires to foul.

 

computerize the whole thing, vastly more complicated, but probably cheaper(in the long run and than some of the methods suggested) and more reliable. You would also be able to add things like wait times, lock profiles, overflow sluice compensation, double locks, moored boat passing, etc

 

cost, robot kits are about £100, wiring and cheapo laptop £200, so you could have a working prototype for £300 or so. Expertise to do it, priceless.

 

 

Actually the idea of a 'tag along' boat is quite good, you'd just have to trust it, the idea of a remote control just devolves the operator one step, not much of an advantage, an autonomous boat would be able to perform limited actions by itself, leaving you free to get on with the locks.

 

You would, however, require the skin of a rhinoceros until you got it working.

 

And yes, the inventor of the bicycle was considered a complete loon, he had to wait until gears, chains, brakes, sprung seats, handlebars and rubber wheels were added before his ghost was redeemed. There's a point there, somewhere.

 

some other notes: GPS system, I found a nice cheap one at £20,000, not including thrusters, as said, they trust multi-million pound ships to it. Lodar is also not cheap.

And, is robertwardle getting commision?

[Neil TNC]

Oh, okay, a serious response, why bother with remote control? Why not position a couple of switches to either side of the boat to 'follow' the bank (picture a curved bit of coathanger connected to a microswitch in the simplest instance) and one at the front to stop the boat when it reaches the end of the lock?

 

I realise this is a simplistic description, but I've seen the same technology on small self assembly robots for school science kits, so it's cheap, ready built, and should be easy to adapt. It also wouldn't need steering, you just turn it on and go to the lock, your boat creeps along the bank and into the lock, you close and operate sluices, boat stays at front of lock. The main drawback to the small models I've seen is excessive 'hunting', but you could minimise that with a bit of fiddling, the wide variety of lock shapes/approaches would require some thought, and you'd have to make sure it followed the bank religiously, or be a really good jumper. The same problems would apply to any higher tech solution, and this would be a far cheaper mistake for when it all came apart. (sorry, serious is hard) You'd also have to be realistic in the fact that it would all come apart until you'd got it right.

 

points:

 

non physical switches, you could use an EM field(TV/radio antenna) to measure bank distance's and lock end point, no irritating guide wires to foul.

 

computerize the whole thing, vastly more complicated, but probably cheaper(in the long run and than some of the methods suggested) and more reliable. You would also be able to add things like wait times, lock profiles, overflow sluice compensation, double locks, moored boat passing, etc

 

cost, robot kits are about £100, wiring and cheapo laptop £200, so you could have a working prototype for £300 or so. Expertise to do it, priceless.

 

 

Actually the idea of a 'tag along' boat is quite good, you'd just have to trust it, the idea of a remote control just devolves the operator one step, not much of an advantage, an autonomous boat would be able to perform limited actions by itself, leaving you free to get on with the locks.

 

You would, however, require the skin of a rhinoceros until you got it working.

 

And yes, the inventor of the bicycle was considered a complete loon, he had to wait until gears, chains, brakes, sprung seats, handlebars and rubber wheels were added before his ghost was redeemed. There's a point there, somewhere.

 

some other notes: GPS system, I found a nice cheap one at £20,000, not including thrusters, as said, they trust multi-million pound ships to it. Lodar is also not cheap.

And, is robertwardle getting commision?

 

 

James Griffin perfected remote control years ago!

[blueprince]

I'm torn between admiration and horror. :lol:

[alan_fincher]

James Griffin perfected remote control years ago!

Amusing, it's true, but I happen to know Ocean Princess can be wheel steered from the front, as well as tiller steered from the back.

 

Perhaps they should do it with their hire fleet ? Two steerers each with only half a clue working together might, just might, equate to one fully clued steerer.

[FadeToScarlet]

Amusing, it's true, but I happen to know Ocean Princess can be wheel steered from the front, as well as tiller steered from the back.

 

Perhaps they should do it with their hire fleet ? Two steerers each with only half a clue working together might, just might, equate to one fully clued steerer.

 

Maybe it should be like those cars you get with two drivers' positions as a challenge- one steers, one has the engine controls....

 

(Actually, President is already like that- the fireman controls the steam engine in response to a bell rung by the steerer...)

[Neil TNC]

Amusing, it's true, but I happen to know Ocean Princess can be wheel steered from the front, as well as tiller steered from the back.

 

Perhaps they should do it with their hire fleet ? Two steerers each with only half a clue working together might, just might, equate to one fully clued steerer.

 

Not a good idea to do this when approaching the Thames Barrier...but lots of fun doing it in Blisworth and passing a boat, with the internal lights off.

[martyn 1]

If you can entrust a multi-million pound ship to a box of tricks, I'm sure narrowboats could have the same. That said, the Northampton arm isn't the North Sea....

 

There is a vast difference with a fly by wire system incorparating gps, electronic engines etc etc, than trying to remote control a boat. In my day job (RNLI lifeboat design engineer) we have worked with various all singing all dancing control systems. Our newest class has a computer system that ties together all the nav, engines, bilge system etc etc. so you can operate all of the kit from any of the 8 positions) but always to be used with someone on the vessel, as are the north sea rig boats. this is because when something goes wrong (which at some point it will) someone is there to hit the oh s$%t levers to avoid a catastropy.

 

We had problems with the MF radios interfering (i know you would not get mf of a narrowboat, unless your lost and end up in the middle of the atlantic . ) but when the radios were used with the boat along side running it would suddenly dump on about half revs on both engines and knock into gear (both gear select and engines are electronic). that was just a little un nerving when theres 2500hp in the engine room.

 

So think of this senario, you are lone moving your boat down through some lock by remote (no one on board) and a random radio signal interferes with your controls cutting the control of your vessel, (now any good system would fail safe to idle out of gear) but the momentum your vessel it is carrying is now uncontrolled and say 12 tonne ish of steel can do some serious damage. and if you were to injure someone you would be leaving yourself wide open for all sorts of health and safety and liability problems. (unmanned machinery etc etc)

 

There were some comments earlier about palfinger hiabs etc, yes these have remote control and do fail safe stop if signal is lost, but if all goes wrong someone can still hit the stop on the kit. unless you are going to get wet your cant get to an un manned boat in the middle of the cut to do that.

 

Rant over.

[Gary Peacock]

I know how I would do it (Having done all but the RC link in the past) but how is it actually done with this product?

 

Are we talking using RC model kit which would work within reason or a serious scenario with fail safes and encryption etc?