pubs closing!!

[purplehaze]

Hi Everyone

Just seen the post about the Romping Donkey being closed and wondered how many other pubs have closed across the canal network due to the 'recession' high cost of beer and the ban on smoking. Any chance that we could compile a list so we can know where we can get a decent pint/meal?

Julie

[Hobbler]

The problem is that pubs are now closing in such large numbers so quickly that any list would almost be out of date as soon as it appeared on the forum .

[denboy]

But But But the smoking ban has not affected pubs at all the government says so

[bag 'o' bones]

But But But the smoking ban has not affected pubs at all the government says so

 

It hasn't its true. The only pubs that have been affected by the 'smoking ban' is ones which were going to the wall anyway.

[Nightwatch]

In the press today apparantly is the proposal to "double" or there abouts the cost of alcohol to combat us enjoying ourselves.

 

This "may" have an effect on the number of our pubs closing also.

 

 

 

Martyn

[Ex- Member]

Well talking to the locals in my local the smoking ban is the main reason they're not going to the pub as much as they used to, especially through the winter. My local is a food pub also, but the landlady says that although her food trade is up slightly, it in no way covers the losses due to lack of trade due to the smoking ban. She's even reduced some beers to 2.00 a pint some months ago from 2.60 to get customers in, but it's doing little to boost trade.

 

I used to go out with Lynn at least twice a week, spending around £30 a night, more if we went to a restaurant after or takeaway. We don't bother at all now except for popping in for a £2.00 pint on the way home from work. It's saved me a lot of dosh actually so I'm not that fussed now and quite happy with Morries real ale selection @ 4 bottles for a fiver. We'll probably start going out a bit more through the summer as sitting outside all evening in summer isn't a problem.

 

Pubs have spent a fortune trying to accommodate smokers, our local wetherspoons erected a massive umbrella in the rear courtyard with 4 built in powerful heaters. Cost £3500 Let alone the cost of the heaters at 4kw each. The engineers fitting it were doing a roaring trade aparrently and when we met them they were just finishing off the installation at 9pm.

 

Weatherspoons gets a lot of young trade though, and the younger generation don't seem to be bothered so much about the smoking ban as long as they can get pissed LOL

 

But local pubs like mine are struggling, the art of conversation has died as people are popping out for a fag every 20 minutes. Gone are the days of a good pint cigarette and a good natter. Ironically some non smokers have said they now go out less because their smoking friends don't either, and they und up in the pub on their own

 

What with recession it's pretty gloomy for pubs. Summer though might see a good turn around, let's hope so anyway.

[Tiny]

I see that a report wants to stop us drinking too much by increasing the price (taxes). What would the government do for tax if they did that and the revenue went down. They seem to want a UK but not as we know it. And they never seem to think it through.

[Nightwatch]

I believe they do think it through and come to the decision to go ahead anyway. The powers that be are hellbent on just running the country in such away that they can then say "we did it our way" and sod the rest of you.

 

I suppose they have to regain the tax that was lost in the reduction of tabacco sales.

 

You can get cheap flights to Russia, better off there perhaps.

 

 

Martyn

[alan_fincher]

I have to say my experiences don't mirror yours.

 

Most of the pubs we are visiting still seem to be doing a good trade, and I see little evidence of smoking bans having hit pub numbers.

 

What I have heard is bar staff saying how much more pleasant an environment they are to work in, and how they no longer fear for their heath being subjected to it day in, day out.

 

Some pubs are doing poorly because they sell badly kept beer at overinflated prices, or expect to get away with poor food, also at overinflated prices.

 

There is enough variety out there now, that once you have been poorly served at a pub, you tend just to make a mental note, not give them a second chance, and go elsewhere in future.

 

What I can appreciate is it must be very hard for new tenants to take on a failing pub, and try and turn it around. If I've been somewhere, and it was crap, I'm not necessarily going to hear that it's now been rescued, and is once again a good pub.

 

An excellent local example was the Grand Junction Arms where our banter was held. Truly dire a few years ago, but had it not been for Koukouvagia's banter initiative, I'd have been unlikely to go back and discover they now do good beer and good meals.

[Gary Peacock]

One thing that isn't helping is that the Pub Co's have taken a different tack over the last two years in that rather than consistantly trying to find a new sucker to lease a failing pub, they are now looking towards the properties value and should they choose to simply close the pub and sell it for other uses.

[Ex- Member]

I have to say my experiences don't mirror yours.

 

Most of the pubs we are visiting still seem to be doing a good trade, and I see little evidence of smoking bans having hit pub numbers.

 

What I have heard is bar staff saying how much more pleasant an environment they are to work in, and how they no longer fear for their heath being subjected to it day in, day out.

 

Some pubs are doing poorly because they sell badly kept beer at overinflated prices, or expect to get away with poor food, also at overinflated prices.

 

There is enough variety out there now, that once you have been poorly served at a pub, you tend just to make a mental note, not give them a second chance, and go elsewhere in future.

 

What I can appreciate is it must be very hard for new tenants to take on a failing pub, and try and turn it around. If I've been somewhere, and it was crap, I'm not necessarily going to hear that it's now been rescued, and is once again a good pub.

 

An excellent local example was the Grand Junction Arms where our banter was held. Truly dire a few years ago, but had it not been for Koukouvagia's banter initiative, I'd have been unlikely to go back and discover they now do good beer and good meals.

 

I think different areas might suffer different effects. We're in a small town lots of pubs, in the summer they will all do well smoking or not, but winter have to compete for local trade. It really has made a difference here, when I used to pop in the local on the way home from work there would be at least a dozen people doing the same local business men, builders carpenters etc etc. Now no one bothers I do pop in occasionally but just not the same especially in Fridays. We all moan about the smoking ban and say that's the reason they don't bother now. The clientel are mostly working class so probably more smokers to upset LOL But agree not all pubs will suffer the same nationwide especially food orientated pubs, wine bars etc.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Julynian

[bag 'o' bones]

I think banning smoking was the best thing they have ever done for the pub trade. Having run a pub myself I know just how much damage the smoke does to the fixtures and fittings. Also because I lived above the pub smoke would drift up through the ceiling into the living quarters - nightmare.

 

Some of my friends smoke and they all agree that it great to be able to go home at night not smelling like an ash tray.

 

To be perfectly honest I think the smokers who have a problem with the smoking ban to the point they don't go out anymore are incredibly self centrered and to be honest a bit sad. Bit like the guy who barred himself from my own pub a few years ago when I asked him politely not to blow smoke in my face whilst sitting at the bar with his cattle dung smelling cigar............

 

Oh and just for the record, I can smoke cigarettes and enjoy them, its just I don't allow them to rule my life to the point I have to avoid the pub because of the smoking ban.

[Yoda]

The opium of the masses and a couple of beers at home is what the government want you to have. While you are watching TV and sitting at home you are not rioting on the streets. Complete control of the population is the holy grail of the government and the civil service, ensuring order and protection because they know best.

 

Now how do you feel about that?

Edited March 15, 2009 by Yoda

[Ex- Member]

The opium of the masses and a couple of beers at home is what the government want you to have. While you are watching TV and sitting at home you are not rioting on the streets. Complete control of the population is the holy grail of the government and the civil service, ensuring order and protection because they know best.

 

Now how do you feel about that?

 

 

Same could be said for posting on forums, oh begger I've spilt me beer LOL

[sociable_hermit]

Smoking's got little to do with it. People aren't gong into pubs because they're skint, or worried about being skint in the future. It's cheaper to eat and drink at home (even if you are paying for your own heat and lighting, lol). Also more people are working flexi time or shifts or grabbing overtime if they can, now. And you can't drive after a couple of pints any more. So it's harder to arrange a trip to the pub unless you're lucky enough to have one within easy walking distance for both you and your friends, and everyone is free on the same night.

 

I wonder if there are any figures available specifically for 'real ale' pubs? I say this because my own personal approach nowadays is not to bother with plastic pubs and instead save my money for planned trips to pubs of note, even if they're further away.

[Dutch]

It hasn't its true. The only pubs that have been affected by the 'smoking ban' is ones which were going to the wall anyway.

 

Would you like to offer facts to support that,by the way i am a non smoker

[bag 'o' bones]

Would you like to offer facts to support that,by the way i am a non smoker

 

Before I start delving (i've got an article somewhere) what sort of facts? I've got my own experiences but they can't be substantiated.

[Ex- Member]

Smoking's got little to do with it. People aren't gong into pubs because they're skint, or worried about being skint in the future. It's cheaper to eat and drink at home (even if you are paying for your own heat and lighting, lol). Also more people are working flexi time or shifts or grabbing overtime if they can, now. And you can't drive after a couple of pints any more. So it's harder to arrange a trip to the pub unless you're lucky enough to have one within easy walking distance for both you and your friends, and everyone is free on the same night.

 

I wonder if there are any figures available specifically for 'real ale' pubs? I say this because my own personal approach nowadays is not to bother with plastic pubs and instead save my money for planned trips to pubs of note, even if they're further away.

 

The pub trade started suffering from less punters before the recession started. I havent spoken to a landlord yet who hasn't had a decline in custom they believe due to the smoking ban, maybe my choice of pub suffers more than most.

 

The results from Ireland show decline as well. Smoking has more than little to do with it, but not solely responsible for the decline in trade of course.

 

http://news.scotsman.com/tobacco/Smoking-b...-has.2605471.jp

[Dutch]

Before I start delving (i've got an article somewhere) what sort of facts? I've got my own experiences but they can't be substantiated.

 

Oh i see a personal perspective that is thrust upon us all.My whole family is involved in the Public house trade and the smoking ban was the single most dramatic act to cause loss of customers to the trade.

[sociable_hermit]

The pub trade started suffering from less punters before the recession started. I havent spoken to a landlord yet who hasn't had a decline in custom they believe due to the smoking ban, maybe my choice of pub suffers more than most.

 

The results from Ireland show decline as well. Smoking has more than little to do with it, but not solely responsible for the decline in trade of course.

 

http://news.scotsman.com/tobacco/Smoking-b...-has.2605471.jp

 

I just don't believe that smoking is the dominant factor. I think it's got more to do with changing lifestyles:

* variable working hours

* divorcees looking after kids on their own

* evening and Sunday shopping

* the internet

* home entertainment - DVDs, X-box, Wii

* media hype over healthy living

* social climbing fashions (gym membership and dinner parties are 'better' than going down the pub)

 

The pubs that have been hit hardest by the smoking ban are the ones which need a good clean - it's amazing how dreadful some pubs smell now you can smell more than just cigarette smoke! I think Landlords are quick to blame the smoking ban for the downturn in trade because it's a one off change which is easy to understand, and therefore easy to use as a reason, and it instantly puts the blame on someone else. But I wonder if the downturn would have happened anyway?

[Yoda]

As I reported earlier, the government want to help all of us to live longer to pay taxes.

[tony collins]

One thing that isn't helping is that the Pub Co's have taken a different tack over the last two years in that rather than consistantly trying to find a new sucker to lease a failing pub, they are now looking towards the properties value and should they choose to simply close the pub and sell it for other uses.

 

This isn't as easy as it sounds. A pub landlord in our town found that he couldn't make a living from the small pub, so he closed the pub and applied for change of use to domestic. He wanted continue to live there with his family. What happened?

 

The bearded ones of Camra came out of the woodwork and objected to his proposals on the grounds that he sold real ale. They wouldn't contemplate losing an outlet for their favoured pint. The pub in question has had a chequered history, having been closed several times before. It is on a busy main road near big junction with no parking. Result? His application was refused, so his family was made homeless, another guy is now running the pub with a blaze of publicity. However I predict a year or two down the line that this particular pub will be in the news again for all the same reasons again.

 

Tony.

[carlt]

This isn't as easy as it sounds. A pub landlord in our town found that he couldn't make a living from the small pub, so he closed the pub and applied for change of use to domestic. He wanted continue to live there with his family. What happened?

The fact that he completely alienated the locals, who walked to the pub, gave the impression that he never had any intention of trying to make a go of it and his celebrity status would oil the wheels of his planning application.

 

I haven't been back, since it has reopened, because it's far too busy, now, for my liking.

[bastonjock]

The smoking ban has effected more than just pubs,its hit bingo halls and snooker clubs also.A friend managed three bingo halls,he told me that his proffit was made at the interval,all the women would go out of the hall and start playing the one armed bandits,20-30 machines per hall being pumped with pounds for 30 mins,now most of the women head outside for a smoke,result,two bingo halls have now closed.

 

The guy across from my business unit supplys pool tables ,he says that the trade in tables has been badly effected by the smoking ban, snooker clubs are struggling also.

[bag 'o' bones]

Oh i see a personal perspective that is thrust upon us all.My whole family is involved in the Public house trade and the smoking ban was the single most dramatic act to cause loss of customers to the trade.

 

Like yourself my famlily have been involved in the pub trade on and off for the last 50 years.....

 

My personal perspective is of the current licensee variety.

 

Pub close basically because of poor mangement. Like any business its survival of the fittest. However saying that I think the government more could have been done to help the trade out. The beer orders were a disaster. Getting rid of middlemen pub companies would be a start.