Is Continuous Cruising Safe?

[bottle]

Maizee.

 

Have a look here;

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/bl_Licence_terms_and_conditions_from_October_2008.pdf

 

It is a PDF document, pages 11 and 12 will give you the official guide, on CCing.

[Bones]

In my book one shouldn't continuously cruise with school age kids because you would not be paying your share of the costs of education as you wouldn't be paying Council Tax. Admittedly there is no mechanism for collecting CT from many liveaboard boaters but that doesn't mean that those who take advantage of this are not sponging off the rest of us.

 

 

They do however use services that the rest of us have the priviledge of paying for.

 

 

This is not always the case. To assume that there is no 'house' involved with CT being paid where a child is being schooled (which is why they might be at a particular school), might make sense, but with all cases there are exceptions. The kid I had was fully paid up on the CT front. Despite that, it was still difficult to get her to school on time and pick her up and get myself to work, not least because commuting from a 'new area' often meant too much traffic so we were late, or too little so we were very early; neither situation is optimal!

[AlanH]

This is not always the case. To assume that there is no 'house' involved with CT being paid where a child is being schooled (which is why they might be at a particular school), might make sense, but with all cases there are exceptions. The kid I had was fully paid up on the CT front. Despite that, it was still difficult to get her to school on time and pick her up and get myself to work, not least because commuting from a 'new area' often meant too much traffic so we were late, or too little so we were very early; neither situation is optimal!

Where did I assume that? If you paid your CT then there is no problem. Many residential boaters do pay CT. It is only those who don't who are sponging.

 

You alienate a lot of people, by calling them "Spongers" or even putting them in the same category as the MPs that are, allegedly, fiddling their expenses.

The MPs are not "fiddling" expenses. There are no allegations that their actions are illegal. They are merely using the rules to their advantage much as some liveaboards do.

Edited April 8, 2009 by AlanH

[carlt]

Where did I assume that? If you paid your CT then there is no problem. Many residential boaters do pay CT. It is only those who don't who are sponging.

 

 

The MPs are not "fiddling" expenses. There are no allegations that their actions are illegal. They are merely using the rules to their advantage much as some liveaboards do.

Any honest businessman will tell you that his accountant uses the rules, to their advantage, to minimise his tax bill.

 

Spongers?

 

The vast majority of liveaboards are exempt from paying Council Tax.

 

Spongers?

 

The offensive use of such language, to cover such a vast portion of the population, does you no credit.

[AlanH]

Any honest businessman will tell you that his accountant uses the rules, to their advantage, to minimise his tax bill.

 

Spongers?

No because they are paying what is considered by the regulations as their share.

 

The vast majority of liveaboards are exempt from paying Council Tax.

 

Spongers?

 

Not intentionally but yes - they are paying nothing yet are using the facillities provided by those of us who do pay.

 

Maybe "sponger" is too strong a word but I can't think of one which describes the situation but doesn't have slightly offensive connotations. I rejected "leech" and "freeloader".

[Bones]

Where did I assume that? If you paid your CT then there is no problem. Many residential boaters do pay CT. It is only those who don't who are sponging.

 

 

The MPs are not "fiddling" expenses. There are no allegations that their actions are illegal. They are merely using the rules to their advantage much as some liveaboards do.

 

I didn't pay CT. The kid was from a house that did though. I didn't.

[carlt]

Not intentionally but yes - they are paying nothing yet are using the facillities provided by those of us who do pay.

What, like those people who believe that ccers should pay a marina connection charge, even if they do not use marinas?

 

Double Standards!

[Naughty Cal]

I think the issue is home owners and moorers on residential sites pay CT to fund services such as the police, fire service and local council services. All of which CCers also use, even though they contribute nothing towards paying for these services.

[stewey]

The MPs are not "fiddling" expenses. There are no allegations that their actions are illegal. They are merely using the rules to their advantage much as some liveaboards do.

Indeed Alan. But, err who made their rules?

 

Stewey

[AlanH]

What, like those people who believe that ccers should pay a marina connection charge, even if they do not use marinas?

 

Double Standards!

Deliberate misinterpretation.

I never said that. I want connection charges dropped not extra charges on CCers.

[carlt]

I think the issue is home owners and moorers on residential sites pay CT to fund services such as the police, fire service and local council services. All of which CCers also use, even though they contribute nothing towards paying for these services.

The vast majority of Liveaboards, not just CCers, are not required to pay Council Tax.

 

There was a test case, in Rugby, when a liveaboard approached the council and offered to pay a proportion of her CT because she paid BW for many of the services that the council provided for house dwellers but still felt she should contribute something to the local services.

 

The council, prompted by her initiative, said that it wasn't worth dividing up the charges, into individual services and sent a full bill to her.

 

She took this further (I forget whether she went to court or ombudsman) and the outcome was that the council was right, it wasn't worth dividing it up and she should pay nothing.

[AlanH]

Indeed Alan. But, err who made their rules?

 

Stewey

Quite - I'm not defending them.

[Naughty Cal]

The vast majority of Liveaboards, not just CCers, are not required to pay Council Tax.

 

There was a test case, in Rugby, when a liveaboard approached the council and offered to pay a proportion of her CT because she paid BW for many of the services that the council provided for house dwellers but still felt she should contribute something to the local services.

 

The council, prompted by her initiative, said that it wasn't worth dividing up the charges, into individual services and sent a full bill to her.

 

She took this further (I forget whether she went to court or ombudsman) and the outcome was that the council was right, it wasn't worth dividing it up and she should pay nothing.

 

Moorers on residential sites pay Band A council tax. Liveaboards living on non residential sites probably pay nothing because they shouldnt be living there.

[carlt]

There is obviously a vast gulf between those of us who think "good for them" if someone finds themselves exempt from paying a tax and those that are bristling with envy at those that might be paying a bit less.

 

I obviously won't change any minds so I'll leave you wallowing in your envy and double standards.

[AlanH]

There is obviously a vast gulf between those of us who think "good for them" if someone finds themselves exempt from paying a tax and those that are bristling with envy at those that might be paying a bit less.

 

I obviously won't change any minds so I'll leave you wallowing in your envy and double standards.

What you call envy I call a sense of fair play. If everyone had your attitude then we'd have no police,NHS, roads, education etc. etc.

[Naughty Cal]

Lets all just CC then

[Bones]

What you call envy I call a sense of fair play. If everyone had your attitude then we'd have no police,NHS, roads, education etc. etc.

 

and everyone would be labelled as spongers rather than considering that some people are commenting on CCing as a viable option and suggesting it is hard with regards to schooling. Especially when said person doesn't actually pay council tax, but the child, for various reasons, is covered for CT by a 'house' (which the CCer is not associated with).

 

There are exceptions to all sweeping statements, which is often the problem with them!

[carlt]

If everyone had your attitude then we'd have no police,NHS, roads, education etc. etc.

Not true! I have my attitude yet I also pay Council Tax, without begrudging those that find themselves exempt.

[Tim Doran]

To imply that those not required to pay a tax are spongers is downright offensive.

 

Hear hear

 

Maizee.

 

Have a look here;

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/bl_Licence_terms_and_conditions_from_October_2008.pdf

 

It is a PDF document, pages 11 and 12 will give you the official guide, on CCing.

 

Please not the official guide gives guidence not rules written in law apart from the moving every 14 days.

 

Tim

[carlt]

Lets all just CC then

That is, of course, your option.

 

I would not begrudge you any tax advantages that might come your way, if you choose to take up the option, either.

[Naughty Cal]

That is, of course, your option.

 

I would not begrudge you any tax advantages that might come your way, if you choose to take up the option, either.

 

Trouble is if all boat owners CC there would be no marinas, no services provided by marinas, councils will have less money, police budgets will be cut, BW moorings will be very overcrowded. In fact could you even move?

[AlanH]

That is, of course, your option.

 

I would not begrudge you any tax advantages that might come your way, if you choose to take up the option, either.

I trust that you do not begrudge the MPs their perks or the businessman his accountant either.

[carlt]

I trust that you do not begrudge the MPs their perks or the businessman his accountant either.

If they are acting within the law, then no, I don't.

 

 

Trouble is if all boat owners CC there would be no marinas, no services provided by marinas, councils will have less money, police budgets will be cut, BW moorings will be very overcrowded. In fact could you even move?

As this is unlikely to happen, it isn't worth mentioning.

 

You persist in differentiating between marina dwellers and ccers.

 

The vast majority of marina dwelling liveaboards pay no CT.

[Naughty Cal]

If they are acting within the law, then no, I don't.

 

 

 

As this is unlikely to happen, it isn't worth mentioning.

 

You persist in differentiating between marina dwellers and ccers.

 

The vast majority of marina dwelling liveaboards pay no CT.

 

As i have already said, they are normally living on leisure moorings for which no council tax is payable but which also should not be used for residential moorings.

[carlt]

As i have already said, they are normally living on leisure moorings for which no council tax is payable but which also should not be used for residential moorings.

I know you've already said that which is why I'm puzzled that you keep making the differentiation.