Is it EVER OK to leave Osmosis

[Scotty D]

I'm looking at buying a boat, have read alot on OSmosis, some say you can leave it, soem say the slightest sign should be treated immediately, some say big job, some say small.

 

If I'm thinking about buying a boat and maybe selling again in a year or two (may move abroad).....should I buy a boat with Osmosis and if so, should I leave it or have it treated....would love to hear everyone's opinions...

 

All the best

 

Scotty

[blackrose]

I'm looking at buying a boat, have read alot on OSmosis, some say you can leave it, soem say the slightest sign should be treated immediately, some say big job, some say small.

 

If I'm thinking about buying a boat and maybe selling again in a year or two (may move abroad).....should I buy a boat with Osmosis and if so, should I leave it or have it treated....would love to hear everyone's opinions...

 

All the best

 

Scotty

 

There are a lot of people on this forum who will tell you all you need to know about steel hulls, but when it comes to GRP I'm not sure if there's quite the same of wealth of knowledge here. You could try another forum but then you'll probably be in salty territory and I'm not sure if the answer to your question would be different depending on whether the boat is in salt or fresh water.

 

I remember from O-level biology that osmosis is the diffusion of water through a semi-permeable membrane, from a low concentration to a high concentration solution, so the type of water you're in might make a difference.

 

All I know is that I'm glad my hull isn't made of a semi-permeable membrane!

[Naughty Cal]

Osmosis isnt as big an issue as people make out. We met an old couple on the Broads who bought a boat very cheaply due to osmosis. They had it treated at a cost of around £1500 and have had many years boating out of the old girl. They have made money on the boat to boot.

 

The best advice is get a survey done and quiz the surveyor for advise should osmosis arise.

 

Should just add that some boat builders are much better than others in terms of the quality of their hulls. Always go for the best that your money can buy. You will spend less on maintenance in the long run.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Phylis

[Nine of Hearts]

I remember from O-level biology that osmosis is the diffusion of water through a semi-permeable membrane, from a low concentration to a high concentration solution, so the type of water you're in might make a difference.

 

Part of the osmotic process (in reference to the term attacking GRP hulls) is water molecules passing from a low concentration to a higher, so the effects are probably worse in "fresh" water.

[carlt]

I'm looking at buying a boat, have read alot on OSmosis, some say you can leave it, soem say the slightest sign should be treated immediately, some say big job, some say small.

 

If I'm thinking about buying a boat and maybe selling again in a year or two (may move abroad).....should I buy a boat with Osmosis and if so, should I leave it or have it treated....would love to hear everyone's opinions...

 

All the best

 

Scotty

Get a survey.

 

As Phylis says, caught early it can be relatively easy to treat but a full peel treatment could cost £4-5k.

 

Fuzzyduck turned down a lovely boat, because the osmotic damage was too severe.

 

Done properly (and there are cowboys out there), Osmosis treatment is not a cheap do, if the damage is severe.

 

Should just add that some boat builders are much better than others in terms of the quality of their hulls.

It is some of the best hulls that are starting to degrade, quickest. Due to the many layers of matting, laid on an expensive hull.

 

Edited to say: It's also the better hulls that are worth treating, of course.

Edited December 19, 2008 by carlt

[mattlad]

From what I gather from various sources osmosis on its own is not a big problem, but it can lead to the hull de-laminating........ Which is a bad thing

 

Older hulls were often massively over engineered and subsequently less likely to de-laminate.

 

Don't forget the vast majority of glass fibre hulls manufactured still exist..................

[johnjo]

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/osmosis.htm

 

You might find this useful. Don't get too alarmed about osmosis, but do get professional unbiased advice, not the seller, not the broker or a boatyard who might want the work, go for a recommended surveyor.

 

Hope this helps,

John

 

Edited to add, I put this in a search on Google 'osmosis in fibreglass hulls' came up with loads of sites.

Edited December 19, 2008 by johnjo

[Scotty D]

Thanks gang, I had read the mentioned websites plus another few from the same google search, but it's always really helpful to hear other peoples opinions first hand so thank you for that.

 

My concern is paying £500 deposit to get the boat surveyed to turn it down on the basis of Osmosis and then lose the £500....that's why I'm trying to do my guesswork before hand....

 

Do people normally get there £500 paid for by the broker if the Osmosis is bad and they decide not to go ahead?

 

All the best

 

Scotty

[Naughty Cal]

We did a deal whereby if the survey found anything real bad we would walk away and get our deposit back. Also as our boat was a stock boat and not a brokerage boat they were selling for someone else, they fixed everything the survey threw up as well as servicing the engines, outdrive and heating and provided a full valet inside and out. Cal came out of the shed like a new boat. Also got a limited warranty on the boat for six months.

 

We could have bought a similar boat cheaper but wouldnt have got the same level of service.

[carlt]

Make sure any deposit is returnable, and any offer subject to survey.

[alan_fincher]

My concern is paying £500 deposit to get the boat surveyed to turn it down on the basis of Osmosis and then lose the £500....that's why I'm trying to do my guesswork before hand....

 

Do people normally get there £500 paid for by the broker if the Osmosis is bad and they decide not to go ahead?

Scotty,

 

Your post seems slightly confusing to me.

 

You will generally pay a deposit on a boat you want to buy, which indicates your commitment, but any such deposit should always be "subject to satisfactory survey", and receipted as such. You don't have to give your reasons if you pull out, nor make the survey available to the seller.

 

The survey fee, which you pay to the surveyor, not the broker, is at your expense. Even if you got the worst survey ever, you would normally still lose that money. The costs of craneage or slipping are usually down to you too, unless it's already out of the water.

 

Pulling out after a bad survey, and losing many hundreds of pounds is a tough thing to do, but not half as crap as buying a heap of droppings without realising you were.

 

 

It's always best if you can find a knowledgeable mate to look at a boat before you commit to a survey. They may know enough to stop you losing a survey fee, (but don't rely on them to say it's good!).

[fuzzyduck]

Scotty

 

if you're looking for a couple of years of cheap boating, then a sell on, forget worrying about osmosis. at the bottom of the price range I'm not sure that I'd even worry too much about a survey

 

If however you're looking for a larger boat then pick a boat you like, put down a "subject to survey and water trial" deposit and get it surveyed. as you're talking abut £500 for a survey I guess you're looking at about 27-32 feet inboard powered vessel.

 

be present at the survey, and when the moisture readings are done, along with any blisters get the surveyor to explain the situation to you.

 

When I turned down an Elysian 27 because of osmosis issues, it was with a heavy heart, she was a fantastic boat, and had very few problems other than some hand sized blisters that were the start of hull delamination. I wanted a boat I could keep for a good few years, so was looking for the best hull I could find (this was my foremost priority I was prepared to re-engine) despite the osmosis being advanced, my surveyor was confident that she could have been re-laminated for about £200 per foot, and if the owner would have met me half way on the cost I would have still bought the boat.

 

Even untreated, I was told she had a lifespan of a further 10 years or so. and this was a boat already 30 years old.

 

The boat I ended up getting is a Seamaster 27 that had been epoxy coated 5 years before, and at 35 years old didn't have any blisters the surveyor could find.

 

Edited to add

 

One thing it's good to do is look at, and have surveyed, a boat that's floating, not one that's been on the hard for a few months, blisters are much more obvious on a freshly lifted boat.

 

again edited to add

 

If you are looking at cruisers in the East Mids, or travelling through the east mids on your way to view a boat, I will be more than happy to spend a few hours kicking the tyres as it were with you.

 

again again edited to add

 

I know of a man selling an Inland Plastics Project 31 at a pretty good price.

Edited December 24, 2008 by fuzzyduck

[fuzzyduck]

OH, and one more thing.

 

when viewing a cruiser look at the antifoul on the Transom. if there is a patch that has been scraped off below the waterline, then it's already been surveyed, and then you can ask the broker the following question

 

"has this boat been surveyed before?" followed by "and why was the offer withdrawn?"

[larkshall]

Osmosis, isnt really a problem, or at any rate its very over rated.

 

But there are some issues

 

a) Osmosis in salt water is more of a problem, the dissolved salts an damage any inbedded wood often used as re-enforcing, often balsa.

freezing conditions will quickly expand osmosis effected areas as ice forces laminates further apart

 

but heh is keepin boat for a year or so, i would not worry