Engine Rooms

[flatplane8]

Hi,

 

Do any of you with vintage engines inside your boat have any problems with fumes/smell? To give you some context, we're running some stairs down the side of the Lister JP3 in Misterton (75x15.5' Lincoln Keel) and the original idea was to have a steel wall in place to keep the engine separate. But while standing down there the other day it became clear that such a wall could make starting difficult (hand start only). So maybe an 'open' engine room with a passage down one side would be better.

 

But does anyone in a similar situation (as in a narrow boat with engine room) suffer from fumes etc. when running or when moored?

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

[MoominPapa]

Hi,

 

Do any of you with vintage engines inside your boat have any problems with fumes/smell? To give you some context, we're running some stairs down the side of the Lister JP3 in Misterton (75x15.5' Lincoln Keel) and the original idea was to have a steel wall in place to keep the engine separate. But while standing down there the other day it became clear that such a wall could make starting difficult (hand start only). So maybe an 'open' engine room with a passage down one side would be better.

 

But does anyone in a similar situation (as in a narrow boat with engine room) suffer from fumes etc. when running or when moored?

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

 

The sequence front-->back in out boat is saloon/kitchen/door/walk-though bathroom/door/engine room/cabin. There's no door between the engine room and sleeping cabin, it's completely open. and we do suffer from some smell there. So much so that we're planning to install a door. On the other hand, there's no problem in the rest of the boat. I guess that message is that one door between engine and living accommodation is fine, none at all is a problem.

 

MP.

[David]

Hi

We have a side corridor past our double bed then a door into the engine room, then a pair of central doors from the engine room to back cabin area and they are not at all "fume" tight but we have no problem with fumes or smells in either direction more often than not when on the move both sets of doors are open. You can get a niff of diesel when the day tank is being filled via the rotory pump with the cap off to see how full it is.

But then it is a Kelvin, (hides whilst Gardner, Lister R.Newbury, Rustons etc etc find cudgles)

david

[flatplane8]

Thanks guys, there would be a door in between the engine room and the rest of the accommodation. Are there any issues when your engines are running?

[MoominPapa]

Thanks guys, there would be a door in between the engine room and the rest of the accommodation. Are there any issues when your engines are running?

The only issue from running is heat in the summer. Cruising on long summer evenings mean that the engine may be shut down not long before bedtime, and will still be warm. That makes getting the bedroom cool and comfortable difficult. We have a Lister FR2, I suspect a JP3 represents at least twice as much stored heat. Of course in winter, the engine heat is a great advantage.

 

MP.

[LEO]

Hi,

 

No problems with the engine room, slight smell of Brasso and elbow grease at times. no diesel smells. Engine room clock ticking a bit inconvenient when underway. Heat generated by engine very useful. (Gardner 2LW)

 

Albi

[denboy]

Hi

We have a side corridor past our double bed then a door into the engine room, then a pair of central doors from the engine room to back cabin area and they are not at all "fume" tight but we have no problem with fumes or smells in either direction more often than not when on the move both sets of doors are open. You can get a niff of diesel when the day tank is being filled via the rotory pump with the cap off to see how full it is.

But then it is a Kelvin, (hides whilst Gardner, Lister R.Newbury, Rustons etc etc find cudgles)

david

No need to hide i`ll watch yer back tin hat and bayonet fixed

[Chertsey]

Certainly no problem with fumes. Only a nice, comforting sort of warm engine smell. We do have doors, but frequently don't shut them.

[flatplane8]

All sounds good, thanks everyone for your replies!

Edited November 11, 2008 by flatplane8

[Timleech]

Where you might get smells/fumes is if the engine is a bit tired (crankcase pressure blowing fumes out) or if the fuel system isn't maintained perfectly leak-free. The second one is much easier to keep on top of with a properly accessible engine, than when it's under your feet in a damp inaccessible hole (lots of cruiser-stern NBs)

 

Tim

[Gibbo]

I thought one of the appeals of a vintage engine was having a boat that smelt of vintage engine?

 

This is in addition to the vibrations, extra exhaust fumes, additional maintenance, oil leaks, pulley ratio problems and difficulty obtaining spares.

 

Gibbo (with a 4LW)

[Strads]

My comments are pretty much in line with the others,,

 

yes our engine (a RN DM3) does hold heat when warm - does smell of warm oil and brasso on a good day and as stated slight diesel niff when fueled up.

 

but otherwise no fumes, and no door to rest of the boat either.

 

Sounds like you need to check your breathers are able to breath and that the engine is serviced and not tired and ie exhaust escaping through leaky gaskets valve guides etc and exhaust joint is also sound...

 

 

Otherwise perhaps run with a side door open more opten to get the air "moving/changing" in the engine room to avoid a smell build up?

[johnthebridge]

I thought one of the appeals of a vintage engine was having a boat that smelt of vintage engine?

 

This is in addition to the vibrations, extra exhaust fumes, additional maintenance, oil leaks, pulley ratio problems and difficulty obtaining spares.

 

Gibbo (with a 4LW)

Cynic!

[John Orentas]

I suppose I cheated a little, mine is a brand new though traditional style, heavy, direct injection, job (BMW).. Many of the features of a vintage engine when running but without any of those charming little idiosyncrasies, oil, fume or coolant leaks.. I did however build the engine room a few feet longer than was actually required, I imagined that there may be a Kelvin abiding in there one day.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...=si&img=920

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...=si&img=921

 

It is possible to install a stairway along with a hand alongside the engine, in it's original form there were no covers fitted on the engine but after the first voyage I found that to be 'too much of a good thing'.

Edited November 11, 2008 by John Orentas

[flatplane8]

I should say that I'm not too sure how much our engine 'fumes' as I've not spent too much time down there when its running. The only problem I've seen is that one of the valves that is used to put it into 'low compression' leaks a little until the engine is warm. But under normal operation this is open anyway.

 

You can see the current state of things here

[johnthebridge]

I should say that I'm not too sure how much our engine 'fumes' as I've not spent too much time down there when its running. The only problem I've seen is that one of the valves that is used to put it into 'low compression' leaks a little until the engine is warm. But under normal operation this is open anyway.

 

You can see the current state of things here

Nice keel!

[Proper Job]

I've no doors from the front to the back of Ocelot (Lister JP3).

 

I have been told that (I've never noticed as I've been outside) that with the engine room doors shut and the front doors shut, it can get a bit smelly (kid's today! )

 

I have found a slight blow past on one of the high/low compression screws which I may get round to looking at over the winter.

 

Apart from that, there's that nice warm engine smell at the end of the day. No problem

 

Oh.... and it is a nice big night storage heater in the winter

[flatplane8]

Nice keel!

 

Thanks! We like it, lots to do though

 

 

I have found a slight blow past on one of the high/low compression screws which I may get round to looking at over the winter.

 

Sounds like our problem, fully wound out is fine, fully wound in when hot is also ok, its just when cold it gradually unscrews from its seat.....

[NBMike]

Anyway - what's wrong with the smell of Diesel?

[1-Cylinder Wonder]

Sounds like our problem, fully wound out is fine, fully wound in when hot is also ok, its just when cold it gradually unscrews from its seat.....

Try putting a blob of copper slip on the thread on the high low change over valves. It might just be enough to help seal the little bit of blow past that comes out of the small hole. I found this worked on my JP2. That being said in one of my parents boats we had an FR3 and the change over valves had more fumes coming out than the exhaust. I used to sit in the engine room for hours listening to them hiss. Inhaling the fumes is probably why I never achieved full potential at school and can't walk past a vintage engine! I know you have a large boat but I would still question if it was necessary to use low compression. I would clamp them up tight and eventually carbon will block any leaks. Then leave them be!

 

John

[MoominPapa]

Sounds like our problem, fully wound out is fine, fully wound in when hot is also ok, its just when cold it gradually unscrews from its seat.....

 

Try putting a blob of copper slip on the thread on the high low change over valves. It might just be enough to help seal the little bit of blow past that comes out of the small hole. I found this worked on my JP2. That being said in one of my parents boats we had an FR3 and the change over valves had more fumes coming out than the exhaust. I used to sit in the engine room for hours listening to them hiss. Inhaling the fumes is probably why I never achieved full potential at school and can't walk past a vintage engine! I know you have a large boat but I would still question if it was necessary to use low compression. I would clamp them up tight and eventually carbon will block any leaks. Then leave them be!

 

John

The changeover valves on FRs are a different design. The seating force for the valve comes from springs rather than a screw thread.

 

The valves on my FR2 are welded up in high-compression mode and therefore don't leak at all. On the other hand, the engine may be knackering itself running in high compression all the time. I'm still dithering over trying to restore the valves to as-built state, but it seems that at least two previous owners have tried to do this and failed, and the engine has been running OK in high compression for most of the past 15 years, so I'm leaning towards not bothering.

 

MP.

[1-Cylinder Wonder]

The changeover valves on FRs are a different design. The seating force for the valve comes from springs rather than a screw thread.

 

The valves on my FR2 are welded up in high-compression mode and therefore don't leak at all. On the other hand, the engine may be knackering itself running in high compression all the time. I'm still dithering over trying to restore the valves to as-built state, but it seems that at least two previous owners have tried to do this and failed, and the engine has been running OK in high compression for most of the past 15 years, so I'm leaning towards not bothering.

 

MP.

We had the valves on the FR apart may times trying to make them work. In the end we sealed them up in high. It will do no damge to the engine running in high. Low is there for long periods of running under high load to keep combustion temperatures down. If you run on low without the load the engine just carbons up actually doing damage. If I were you I would leave well alone. Most narrowboats do not need the low compression.

[flatplane8]

Sounds like our problem, fully wound out is fine, fully wound in when hot is also ok, its just when cold it gradually unscrews from its seat.....

 

Try putting a blob of copper slip on the thread on the high low change over valves. It might just be enough to help seal the little bit of blow past that comes out of the small hole. I found this worked on my JP2. That being said in one of my parents boats we had an FR3 and the change over valves had more fumes coming out than the exhaust. I used to sit in the engine room for hours listening to them hiss. Inhaling the fumes is probably why I never achieved full potential at school and can't walk past a vintage engine! I know you have a large boat but I would still question if it was necessary to use low compression. I would clamp them up tight and eventually carbon will block any leaks. Then leave them be!

 

John

 

Good tip about the copper slip. Unfortunately I can't try it for a while until the exhaust is re-connected. Agreed, it may only need low compression when we use her on a river.

[MoominPapa]

We had the valves on the FR apart may times trying to make them work. In the end we sealed them up in high. It will do no damge to the engine running in high. Low is there for long periods of running under high load to keep combustion temperatures down. If you run on low without the load the engine just carbons up actually doing damage. If I were you I would leave well alone. Most narrowboats do not need the low compression.

Thanks for the advice. I'm certainly thinking that way.

 

Cheers,

 

MP.

[Timleech]

We had the valves on the FR apart may times trying to make them work. In the end we sealed them up in high. It will do no damge to the engine running in high. Low is there for long periods of running under high load to keep combustion temperatures down. If you run on low without the load the engine just carbons up actually doing damage. If I were you I would leave well alone. Most narrowboats do not need the low compression.

 

Listers uprated the JP to the JK, one of the mods was to remove the changeover valves and run in permanent high compression but another part of the deal was fitting fancy bearing metal (Copper/lead, IIRC) in the big end top halves.

I think the very last version of the engine did go back to having changeover valves, though I may be wrong.

 

Tim