The death knell for LPG fridges ?

[John Orentas]

Just a shame that before worrying about so many things there arn't greater strides to make it safer to walk the streets at night, or from a boating point of veiw make boating and mooring safer from bandits and towpath attacks.

 

 

I must be unique, never had a gas fridge explode or set fire to the boat, nor to my knowledge have I ever met a bandit or been attacked on the towpath.

[alan_fincher]

I must be unique, never had a gas fridge explode or set fire to the boat, nor to my knowledge have I ever met a bandit or been attacked on the towpath.

You aren't, John, you aren't.

 

Mind you, I've met lots of blokes, who knew a bloke, who knew a bloke who's brother's friend's husband had one of these thngs happen to them.

[Guest TerryL]

You aren't, John, you aren't.

 

Mind you, I've met lots of blokes, who knew a bloke, who knew a bloke who's brother's friend's husband had one of these thngs happen to them.

 

There will always be people who steadfastly refuse to accept safety advice and find all sorts of reason to justify it. In the bigger scheme of things it's not up to anyone individual in their ignorance to decide that any safety measures are not needed. When realisation finally strikes home, usually quite literally, these people are often heard to say, "I never realised!"

 

My wife is a Health and Safety Lecturer running courses in industry and fire safety. Sometimes these people are send on a course only because the business needs to have their own H&S officer for legal reasons and they're not really interested and have preconcieved ideas but once they get into it and find out what it's all about and start to see the problems, they usually become very keen to get involved and gain more qualifications.

 

I think if there were similar boat safety awareness courses then people would more likely appreciate the problems instead of dithering about in the dark, listening to hearsay or putting down sensible actions as not justified.

[LEO]

You aren't, John, you aren't.

 

Mind you, I've met lots of blokes, who knew a bloke, who knew a bloke who's brother's friend's husband had one of these thngs happen to them.

 

Hi Alan,

 

I know of a boat which suffered a serious fire about 20 years ago, probably caused by a gas fridge, the boat, now re-fitted is on a mooring not 50 yards from your mooring.

 

Albi.

[Guest TerryL]

Actually I was emphasing not shouting just didn't want the question lost in the post as it were

but if you insist

 

Pretty Please

 

 

I couldn't find a font with knobs on

 

Thank you, love the colour. Waeco fridge around £400, solar panel minimum 43 watts around £300, 75 AH leisure battery £50 - £80 plus wiring and connection to charging system to fully top up battery if needed.

 

http://www.waeco.co.uk/default.aspx

[Dominic M]

Lets look at this differently-

 

Dometic are just about the only common manufacturer of LPG fridges, they now no longer have a product considered legally suitable for marine use in a new build boat which is CE marked.

 

So they now sell caravan fridges that a boat builder could go to prison for if they are caught fitting it in a new CE marked boat.

 

Because it is not room sealed CORGI will not permit their members to fit it on a boat.

 

If a member of your family was involved in an incident involving a caravan fridge fitted on a boat and the person who sold it new that he was supplying it for that purpose you would have a very good chance of seeking compensation directly from him.

 

You can forget about if they are safe or not, the powers that be in Europe etc say they aren't!

 

So at the moment we are probably very lucky that the BSS maintains the degree of flexibility it does. (I wonder if they could be sued in the event of an incident for endorsing to be safe what legally (in some circumstances) deemed not to be?)

 

Do you install washing machines on your boats? To my knowledge no manufacturer will approve that either. And I was involved a couple of years ago in a nearly new boat sale where the surveyor, who was CORGI registered, insisted that the lpg oven must be reinstalled with rigid pipework as that was the installation instruction (a common make - a Stoves I think) even though Stoves make and supply a flexible connection. Yet the majority of builders use flexible connections, don't they?

 

 

Range cookers gas, oil and solid fuel are room sealed, doesn't take much mind boggling to work out how to apply that to a smaller cooker.

 

The clue is I did notice it. Perhaps you can tell me what gas smells of and tell me why the occupier didn't notice anything?

 

And for anyone who likes to cook anything more elaborate than fry ups and stews, gas is the only decent way of doing so. Any chef will tell you that. You say you don't drive a petrol car. Driving any vehicle is infinitely more dangerous than a properly fitted lpg installation on a boat. So is riding a bicycle, unless you stay off all roads, which is seldom possible. Pedestrian casualties are equally far higher than lpg injuries and fatalities. One has to make an individual assessment. I assume you don't stay at home all the time, and presumably venture forth despite the possibility that in doing so you may be unfortunate enough to get injured. If you choose not to have any gas on your boat, then fair enough. Some people prefer that. But your general tenor seems to be that people who do have lpg are reckless and/or ignorant.

 

 

1) try as i might I can find little (if any) evidence to suggest that gas fridges where maintained and used properly have been responsible for any explosions, CO incidents, or other problems on boats. it's hard to find any in caravans.

So can someone please point me to such data?

 

I bet there may be one or two, but yes, it is very low risk. Although I have an electric fridge at present (it came with the boat) if I get round to replacing it it will be with an lpg one.

 

Dominic

Edited October 5, 2008 by Dominic M

[dccruiser]

You aren't, John, you aren't.

 

Mind you, I've met lots of blokes, who knew a bloke, who knew a bloke who's brother's friend's husband had one of these thngs happen to them.

 

 

If you read previous posts about all the "trouble spots" on the system where bandits are prevelant you will understand my point, reference people travelling through the leicester section, wolverhampton flight etc.

Generally the posts report of stone throwing , rope untying etc, but i also remember stonehenges post a few months ago about a plastic bottle being used to block the chimney on her stove the result of which had she not realised doesnt bear thinking about.

The bw website also has a bandit page of the reported incidences, there are other posts on here from folk who will never travel through certain parts of the system again if my memory serves me right one couple had suffered 3 seperate physical attacks at locks on the leeds and liverpool, another thread was about towpath attacks on boaters in chester......

 

All easily found and well documented examples of a problem and also a danger....and yet i havent seen anything in print about a gas fridge causing an explosion.

 

If the above is seen a superficial and the powers that be are only looking at possible fatalities then do more work to educate boaters and examiners alike on the dangers of carbon monoxide as again every year or so there are documented incidents of fatalities due to insufficient ventilation and faulty flues.At around £20 a throw why not make a co2 detector compulsory? along with a bubble tester? at least then the emphasis would be on the boater just as it is if they take the risk to refuel a petrol genny onboard.

 

So, back to my point , having written more risk assesments and risk analysis than i care to remember i personally would work to eradicate the fully documented threats to safety before moving on to the possible ones if priority is govered by finances.

[alan_fincher]

Hi Alan,

 

I know of a boat which suffered a serious fire about 20 years ago, probably caused by a gas fridge, the boat, now re-fitted is on a mooring not 50 yards from your mooring.

 

Albi.

Accepted,

 

I've never in this thread, or any other, ever suggested that there are no canal boat incidents related to gas.

 

Obviously if you install gas, and don't do it properly, there will always be dangers, and I fully acknowledge that the BSS people say leaks of some description are found on a surprisingly large number of boats.

 

If you follow through many people's logic, then boats should be catching fire or suffering explosions all over the place. The fact that someone as experienced as you needs to go back 20 years to find a likely example, "proves" to me that many boats even manage to soldier on with leaks but no incidents, (very unwise, but clearly true).

 

If you have checks in place for leaks, (bubble tester), and carbon monoxide, (detector), and keep an eye out for flames not burning fully and cleanly, then I believe the dangers of gas are grossly overstated.

 

I'd love to see evidence that shows whether it represents any greater dangers than those relating to trying to generate the electricity to use as an alternative.

 

You shouldn't be complacent with gas. You shouldn't be complacent with petrol fuelled devices. You shouldn't be complacent with 240 volts. You shouldn't be complacent, even, with 12 volts. You shouldn't be complacent with boat stoves. All are potential killers, and all have killed on boats at some stage, as have locks, moveable bridges, propellors & many other things. (Biggest cause of death in professional boatmen was drowning, I believe).

 

Perhaps boating is just too dangerous a pastime, however cautious one is?

[dccruiser]

[quote name='alan_fincher' date='Oct 5 2008, 11:38 AM' post='278056' (Biggest cause of death in professional boatmen was drowning, I believe).

 

Just hope the above isnt noticed or we could all be boating in a 5 point harness and and have a man overboard system as compulsory equipment!

[alan_fincher]

Just hope the above isnt noticed or we could all be boating in a 5 point harness and and have a man overboard system as compulsory equipment!

Indeed, although it's certainly true that virtually none of them or their families could swim.

 

I'm still surprised drowning featured so prominently, as you can after all stand up in most places in a typical canal.

 

I think much of it was probably in locks, possibly when somebody was lockwheeling ahead, or someone was left on their own to work the lock because someone else had gone ahead.

[Chris Pink]

What the hell are you on about?

 

Sorry Mr L, i should have realised this would be over your head.

 

The bit with underlining is called a 'link', you click on it and it will take you to another page which will explain.

[dccruiser]

Indeed, although it's certainly true that virtually none of them or their families could swim.

 

I'm still surprised drowning featured so prominently, as you can after all stand up in most places in a typical canal.

 

I think much of it was probably in locks, possibly when somebody was lockwheeling ahead, or someone was left on their own to work the lock because someone else had gone ahead.

 

The canals were also a lot deeper , i have taken an unladen motor and butty over distance on the system and ran aground when passing other nb's , especially on bends , to think back in the day the amount of fully laden pairs with 3' + draft that were able to pass without incident shows what 100+ years of silting have had.

[US Marines]

Edited to say : Nope - don't mind us, carry on....

 

Coz we said something stupid and now can't delete it.

 

sorry !

 

Edited October 5, 2008 by US Marines

[Guest TerryL]

Sorry Mr L, i should have realised this would be over your head.

 

The bit with underlining is called a 'link', you click on it and it will take you to another page which will explain.

 

What the hell are you still on about?

[Guest TerryL]

And for anyone who likes to cook anything more elaborate than fry ups and stews, gas is the only decent way of doing so. Any chef will tell you that. You say you don't drive a petrol car. Driving any vehicle is infinitely more dangerous than a properly fitted lpg installation on a boat. So is riding a bicycle, unless you stay off all roads, which is seldom possible. Pedestrian casualties are equally far higher than lpg injuries and fatalities. One has to make an individual assessment. I assume you don't stay at home all the time, and presumably venture forth despite the possibility that in doing so you may be unfortunate enough to get injured. If you choose not to have any gas on your boat, then fair enough. Some people prefer that. But your general tenor seems to be that people who do have lpg are reckless and/or ignorant.

 

I bet there may be one or two, but yes, it is very low risk. Although I have an electric fridge at present (it came with the boat) if I get round to replacing it it will be with an lpg one.

 

Dominic

 

Bit of a sweeping statement, you know all the chefs then? So what you are saying is the Aga, Rayburn, Stanley and similar range cookers with a solid hotplate can't cook, I've got hundreds of customers, some are chefs, who will tell you differently? The only benefit gas has is the flame is a bit more controllable but that is not a real problem even on electricity if you can cook and electric ovens are better than gas, always have been and how do think cooking is done on ships?

 

I make my comments as someone who was actually experienced and has studied gas on a technical level and who appreciates the problems, not as someone ignorant of it! As I've said before, it usually takes more than one thing to go wrong to create an accident and taking sensible steps to eliminate these things and reduce risk is what I do. I made the decision that gas on a boat needs too much constant attention and dependance on various devices to be fully safe all the time and it was more troublesome than electricity especially with that bloody shreaking gas alarm. Things like the microwave, electric toaster, kettle, slow cooker, George Formby grill etc. are all far more useful, efficient, controllable and safer than a just a gas cooker. I don't have the same concerns with my caravan however as most of the appliances are room sealed, leaking gas can escape and ventilation is better. You do what you feel is best same as me but I know who is safer.

[magnetman]

Bit of a sweeping statement, you know all the chefs then? So what you are saying is the Aga, Rayburn, Stanley and similar range cookers with a solid hotplate can't cook, I've got hundreds of customers, some are chefs, who will tell you differently? The only benefit gas has is the flame is a bit more controllable but that is not a real problem even on electricity if you can cook and electric ovens are better than gas, always have been and how do think cooking is done on ships?

 

I make my comments as someone who was actually experienced and has studied gas on a technical level and who appreciates the problems, not as someone ignorant of it! As I've said before, it usually takes more than one thing to go wrong to create an accident and taking sensible steps to eliminate these things and reduce risk is what I do. I made the decision that gas on a boat needs too much constant attention and dependance on various devices to be fully safe all the time and it was more troublesome than electricity especially with that bloody shreaking gas alarm. Things like the microwave, electric toaster, kettle, slow cooker, George Formby grill etc. are all far more useful, efficient, controllable and safer than a just a gas cooker. I don't have the same concerns with my caravan however as most of the appliances are room sealed, leaking gas can escape and ventilation is better. You do what you feel is best same as me but I know who is safer.

 

(assuming mobile boat without umbillical cord shore power)

 

Electricity for cooking is an interesting point. Assuming people don't want to have massive battery banks and run the engine for enormous hours how do you actually provide yourself with sufficient power to cook the meals, make the tea etc? I just think its too complicated. do you run a generator? is it petrol? if its built-in diesel its very expensive.

 

Ships have large generators running continuously anyway as they use enough mains power to make this a requirement.

 

I'm guessing you are suggesting running cooking off inverter and big battery bank but this is not as simple as it might sound and will surely require a lot of engine running. there will be a time when you want tea at 6 in the morning and will have to start the engine to get the voltage up to the right level. running the engine at this sort of hour is antisocial.

[tidal]

Thank you, love the colour. Waeco fridge around £400, solar panel minimum 43 watts around £300, 75 AH leisure battery £50 - £80 plus wiring and connection to charging system to fully top up battery if needed.

 

http://www.waeco.co.uk/default.aspx

 

Thanks......... been sat around doing the maths and it all seems to pan out in terms of consumption etc

Initial cost is a little high but depending on life span of the fridge/solar panel/batteries it could balnace out on consumption.

 

I would certainly consider it on a new build or as a replacement for a dead gas fridge. As a replacement for a functional gas fridge........hmmmm........I'm still not sure the cost is justified against the probable statistical risk.

 

It is however a valid alternative and something that could (with a little tinkering) be effective on a larger salty boat

The way that canals are going I am still not sure if I will go back to salty or fresh water boating

[Guest TerryL]

Thanks......... been sat around doing the maths and it all seems to pan out in terms of consumption etc

Initial cost is a little high but depending on life span of the fridge/solar panel/batteries it could balnace out on consumption.

 

I would certainly consider it on a new build or as a replacement for a dead gas fridge. As a replacement for a functional gas fridge........hmmmm........I'm still not sure the cost is justified against the probable statistical risk.

 

It is however a valid alternative and something that could (with a little tinkering) be effective on a larger salty boat

The way that canals are going I am still not sure if I will go back to salty or fresh water boating

 

You could actually do away with the extra battery and use the house bank, you could even do away with the solar panel and just use normal charging, they don't use much.

[Guest TerryL]

(assuming mobile boat without umbillical cord shore power)

 

Electricity for cooking is an interesting point. Assuming people don't want to have massive battery banks and run the engine for enormous hours how do you actually provide yourself with sufficient power to cook the meals, make the tea etc? I just think its too complicated. do you run a generator? is it petrol? if its built-in diesel its very expensive.

 

Ships have large generators running continuously anyway as they use enough mains power to make this a requirement.

 

I'm guessing you are suggesting running cooking off inverter and big battery bank but this is not as simple as it might sound and will surely require a lot of engine running. there will be a time when you want tea at 6 in the morning and will have to start the engine to get the voltage up to the right level. running the engine at this sort of hour is antisocial.

 

You do need a reasonable sized battery but I have run it from just 4.8KW - 50% = 2.4KW usable, the alternator also needs to have a very good output which is needed without a separate generator. I'm not just suggesting it, I'm actually doing it but I don't live onboard and my system is 24 volts which is far better than 12 volt. My cheap inverter is 3KW and I would never let the battery stay so low overnight as to be useless in the morning. If you've got shore power it's obviously easier.

 

You don't use as much power as you might think unless you've got a large crew and although you can't use everything at once, with pre planning it's not a problem. The trick is to oven cook most things like an Aga with the engine running where possible or underway without draining down the battery much. With shore power the power available can double to 6KW if wired separately for it or it might be worth having two inverters. I use a Baby Belling cooker which is gimbled in place of the marine cooker but with the efficient microwave, electric kettle and toaster etc. it doesn't get as much use as gas would and doesn't steam up the windows.

 

Some Dutch barges have all electric cooking with standard cookers or halogen hobs and combination microwave ovens, the inverter/generator/shore power available determines how much you can have on at once.

[Chris Pink]

You do need a reasonable sized battery but I have run it from just 4.8KW - 50% = 2.4KW usable, the alternator also needs to have a very good output which is needed without a separate generator. I'm not just suggesting it, I'm actually doing it but I don't live onboard and my system is 24 volts which is far better than 12 volt. My cheap inverter is 3KW and I would never let the battery stay so low overnight as to be useless in the morning. If you've got shore power it's obviously easier.

 

You don't use as much power as you might think unless you've got a large crew and although you can't use everything at once, with pre planning it's not a problem. The trick is to oven cook most things like an Aga with the engine running where possible or underway without draining down the battery much. With shore power the power available can double to 6KW if wired separately for it or it might be worth having two inverters. I use a Baby Belling cooker which is gimbled in place of the marine cooker but with the efficient microwave, electric kettle and toaster etc. it doesn't get as much use as gas would and doesn't steam up the windows.

 

Some Dutch barges have all electric cooking with standard cookers or halogen hobs and combination microwave ovens, the inverter/generator/shore power available determines how much you can have on at once.

 

Got one here? gosh. Someone advocating cooking with electricity in a mobile situation? What drugs are you on, can i have some? Have you really no idea of how inefficient it is to convert a fuel into electricity, store it and then turn it back into heat again?

 

Do you not believe in climate change? or that it is a good idea to examine your environmental impact? or even in basic cost analysis?

 

You obviously don't know anything about cooking.

[Guest]

Cant claim to have used an electric cooker on a boat, but we do have a microwave. This unmercifully hammers the batteries, and I only allow use of same when underway. Our 700W microwave consumes 1500W. I also removed the electric toaster which mysteriously found its way onboard. But for the washing machine and a powerful vacuum, I wouldn't bother with 240V again, unless we had shore power.

[Guest TerryL]

Cant claim to have used an electric cooker on a boat, but we do have a microwave. This unmercifully hammers the batteries, and I only allow use of same when underway. Our 700W microwave consumes 1500W. I also removed the electric toaster which mysteriously found its way onboard. But for the washing machine and a powerful vacuum, I wouldn't bother with 240V again, unless we had shore power.

 

As I've said before, electric cooking is common on Dutch barges and others and I also have a full sized electric cooker on my Dutch barge but that only runs from the diesel generator or shorepower. The microwave and other appliances run from the inverter. I intend changing the cooker for an oil fired central heating range cooker when I get around to it and this will reduce the generator use a bit.

 

It seems that narrowboats use 12 volt almost universally rather than the more effective 24 Volt or even 48 Volts. It may be your battery and alternator are limited in output and as with others not up to providing enough power for electric cooking.

[Dominic M]

Bit of a sweeping statement, you know all the chefs then? So what you are saying is the Aga, Rayburn, Stanley and similar range cookers with a solid hotplate can't cook, I've got hundreds of customers, some are chefs, who will tell you differently? The only benefit gas has is the flame is a bit more controllable but that is not a real problem even on electricity if you can cook and electric ovens are better than gas, always have been and how do think cooking is done on ships?

 

I make my comments as someone who was actually experienced and has studied gas on a technical level and who appreciates the problems, not as someone ignorant of it! As I've said before, it usually takes more than one thing to go wrong to create an accident and taking sensible steps to eliminate these things and reduce risk is what I do. I made the decision that gas on a boat needs too much constant attention and dependance on various devices to be fully safe all the time and it was more troublesome than electricity especially with that bloody shreaking gas alarm. Things like the microwave, electric toaster, kettle, slow cooker, George Formby grill etc. are all far more useful, efficient, controllable and safer than a just a gas cooker. I don't have the same concerns with my caravan however as most of the appliances are room sealed, leaking gas can escape and ventilation is better. You do what you feel is best same as me but I know who is safer.

Not a sweeping statement, a fact. I quote from one af a number of websites: “Quality chefs demand gas because it is efficient and versatile. It offers instant control and saves energy and time.

 

If you watch any TV cookery programme featuring, say, Gordon Ramsay, Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall, Michel Roux, Antonio Carlucci, Jamie Oliver, Delia Smith, etc etc etc, you will never see them using anything but gas for the main form of cooking. Aga's are large heavy objects with poor heat control that might look homely in a Cotswold cottage but they are not great for cooking on, whatever the Aga louts might try and have us believe.

 

As for electric cooking on a boat, well that requires a generator if you are out cruising. Which means that your supper must be ready by 8pm at the latest, and you can't start cooking breakfast before 8am in order to comply with BW's licence terms and conditions. As for the other items you mention - no self-respecting cook would use a microwave, and they gobble power. Electric toaster ditto, and grilled toast is far superior in texture and flavour. Electric kettle - another power guzzler. Put a kettle on the room stove in winter to keep it ticking over, or simply boil it on the hob. Slow cooker - totally unnecessary gimmick - put it on the room stove in a casserole instead, or build a straw box which consumes no power at all and is wonderfully simple. George Formby grill - is this similar to the George Foreman grill only with a Lancashire accent and the sound of a banjolele as it warms up? The Sinclair C3 of cooking equipment. Whatever, most of these are now gathering dust in people's lofts and outhouses together with fondue sets, the Ronco buttoneer and other "last year's must haves".

 

For the minimal risk gas presents (and people have suffered sever injuries from electrical appliances in any case) I'll stick with lpg and decent food rather than convert my boat into a branch of Comet.

 

God, I'm hungry now

[Guest TerryL]

Not a sweeping statement, a fact. I quote from one af a number of websites: “Quality chefs demand gas because it is efficient and versatile. It offers instant control and saves energy and time.

 

If you watch any TV cookery programme featuring, say, Gordon Ramsay, Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall, Michel Roux, Antonio Carlucci, Jamie Oliver, Delia Smith, etc etc etc, you will never see them using anything but gas for the main form of cooking. Aga's are large heavy objects with poor heat control that might look homely in a Cotswold cottage but they are not great for cooking on, whatever the Aga louts might try and have us believe.

 

As for electric cooking on a boat, well that requires a generator if you are out cruising. Which means that your supper must be ready by 8pm at the latest, and you can't start cooking breakfast before 8am in order to comply with BW's licence terms and conditions. As for the other items you mention - no self-respecting cook would use a microwave, and they gobble power. Electric toaster ditto, and grilled toast is far superior in texture and flavour. Electric kettle - another power guzzler. Put a kettle on the room stove in winter to keep it ticking over, or simply boil it on the hob. Slow cooker - totally unnecessary gimmick - put it on the room stove in a casserole instead, or build a straw box which consumes no power at all and is wonderfully simple. George Formby grill - is this similar to the George Foreman grill only with a Lancashire accent and the sound of a banjolele as it warms up? The Sinclair C3 of cooking equipment. Whatever, most of these are now gathering dust in people's lofts and outhouses together with fondue sets, the Ronco buttoneer and other "last year's must haves".

 

For the minimal risk gas presents (and people have suffered sever injuries from electrical appliances in any case) I'll stick with lpg and decent food rather than convert my boat into a branch of Comet.

 

God, I'm hungry now

 

I'm not wanting to turn my boat into a fancy, money for old rope catering establishment, if you believe in all that, most of it is boil in the bag anyway. I just want beans on toast and a frozen pizza! There are many chefs that do endorse range cookers, Rusty Lee, Mary Berry, Joanna Lumley....er lots of them and one of my Agalout customers said today her Stanley was fab and mummy has a fantastic Rayburn. You don't need heat control, you just move the pans to a cooler or hotter part, much quicker.

 

I use the inverter and I don't claim to be a cook so I'm allowed to use a microwave and all the other useful appliances. I don't have a stove and when I'm on the move I can put the kettle on and a bit of toast which are both much quicker than gas and forget about it if I have to do something else urgently, and my wheel house windows don't steam up! If I use the George Formby the food always turns out nice (again). I don't have power problems, it all works fine.

 

We've got all electric cooking at home at the moment and gas cooking in the caravan with one electric hob which tends to get used the most, but then we get that in the site fee!

[Timleech]

Well - there have been/are paraffin fridges and I expect they would burn diesel if you were able to ignite it and provide some form of wick but as far as I can see burning diesel off a wick or even from a burner pot is likely to produce a lot of smoke unless some form of added draught is used. I understand the paraffin fridges required frequent flue cleaning.

 

You could always experiment with an old gas fridge, the fridge unit is much the same on any "flame that freezes" fridge.

 

 

http://www.sibir.com/products/domestic--ho...dge-s210ke.aspx

 

AIUI the main objection to non-room-sealed gas fridges is the CO issue, does the same worry apply to a paraffin fridge?

 

Tim