Exchanging locks

[Tiny]

While talking on the lock etiquette thread I realised that the etiquette of exchanging locks in flights seems to be another area where some people do some weird and illogical things.

 

For example, working down Tyrley we exchanged locks with a boat coming up from the bottom lock to the next. Arriving at the bottom lock just before our boat the wife was set upon by a lady who was very angry and implied it was only her good manners that had stopped her shutting the gate 'After that boat left it open!'

 

When the wife suggested one up one down the lady informed her that there were two boats below the lock and only us in the pound and, as we had just arrived in said pound, they, who had been waiting a few minutes had priority. At this point the wife changed the subject asking if they were out for long and was amazed to find this lady had been a boat owner for years and so 'knew what she was talking about'.

 

Strangely enough, in the pound we had just vacated there is a ledge on the towpath side which is idealy placed to ground any boat whose crew think this spot the ideal mooring while waiting for the lock. To counter this BW have actually erected signs telling boaters not to moor in the pound and to exchange locks, this being the only place we know of where this is done.

 

However the ladies attitude, which we find is one shared by many boaters to various degrees seems a little strange given that lock flights are best operated by exchanging locks if possible. A we know and often find, putting two or more boats in the same pound going in the same direction causes work for crews and complication which ripple back up and down to other boats going in both directions through the flight.

[sherbert]

Fully agree with exchanging locks As we were coming back up the cauldon there had been some sort of delay on a short flight of three and five boats had come down into a short pound By the time we passed them the pound above was all but empty and there was no way we could get throgh without spending a lot of time re filling the pound At the time there were boats behind us so if three or four of the five had waited above it would have all gone smoothly and quicker for everyone

[tony collins]

Isn't the whole point of exchanging locks saving water? So this woman "who knew what she was talking about" was ready to waste a lockful of water. For what gain? five minutes?

 

It's enough to make you despair sometimes......

 

Tony.

[RLWP]

Bw Byelaws 1965 section 25 Operation of locks

 

Para (e) No person shall: Fill or empty any lock of water for the admission of any vessel to the lock when there is another vessel approaching the lock from the opposite direction and within two hundred yards thereof and the level of the water in the lock is suitable for such approaching vessel to enter the lock.

 

Richard

[gaggle]

if a boat comes out of a lock should i still go to the right or should i go to the left of the exiting boat.

a byewash with some push had me over to the right bank and when a woman came from working the lock she ranted that a boat waiting for another to leave the lock should always go to left.

i was over to the right before she even had the gates open , i just shouted back to her that i did not smoke drugs but she could if she wanted to.

she never thought it was funny.

[alan_fincher]

Bw Byelaws 1965 section 25 Operation of locks

 

Para (e) No person shall: Fill or empty any lock of water for the admission of any vessel to the lock when there is another vessel approaching the lock from the opposite direction and within two hundred yards thereof and the level of the water in the lock is suitable for such approaching vessel to enter the lock.

 

Richard

You're loving them bye-laws, aren't you, Richard!

 

Seriously though, this is a good case where you could legitimately quote, (or show), them to the ignorant woman involved.

 

Not that she'll believe you, of course - she has been on the canal for years, and knows what she's talking about.

 

To introduce some balance, I would yet again quote our recent 3 week, 350 mile, 370 locks (approx) trip. Only at one point did someone attempt to turn a lock on us, and I believe even that was just a lack of attention, rather than malicious. We passed in many flights, amd mostly people were well disciplined, holding back in locks until the one they were going to exchange with was ready, (generally) making passing in the pounds easy.

 

We did have one piece of behaviour I've never encountered before, though. We had shared a broad lock going up, and the lead boat made their way from the lock, picking their way between two in the pound waiting to come down. Before we had a gap to move out in to, the first down-coming boat pushed it's way in to the lock with us still in there. No harm done, of course, but I've never once had it happen before. Have I lead a sheltered life ? Is this common practice further North? (It doesn't happen "down South", in my experience!).

 

Alan

[Pie Eater]

One up, one down in lock flights works for us as saves us work on the lock gates.

 

Steve

[sociable_hermit]

if a boat comes out of a lock should i still go to the right or should i go to the left of the exiting boat.

a byewash with some push had me over to the right bank and when a woman came from working the lock she ranted that a boat waiting for another to leave the lock should always go to left.

i was over to the right before she even had the gates open , i just shouted back to her that i did not smoke drugs but she could if she wanted to.

she never thought it was funny.

 

Not sure what the "chapter and verse" is, but if I hold the boat mid-stream rather than tying up then I favour passing on the right if there's a choice. The main thing is to be seen: the boats will be moving quite slowly approaching or exiting a lock, and there are 'ground crew' to catch ropes etc. if needs be, so provided everyone knows where you are and what's happening, there shouldn't be a problem passing on either side. The main thing is to give them enough space to exit the lock, pick up errant crew etc. and then sort themselves out before you cross. Luckily this tends to equate almost exactly to the distance you'll need to get squared up to go in, so it makes sense all round.

 

Most boats we've crossed have instinctively gone to their right - I've never heard of any instruction saying the opposite.

 

Tom

[magpie patrick]

if a boat comes out of a lock should i still go to the right or should i go to the left of the exiting boat.

a byewash with some push had me over to the right bank and when a woman came from working the lock she ranted that a boat waiting for another to leave the lock should always go to left.

i was over to the right before she even had the gates open , i just shouted back to her that i did not smoke drugs but she could if she wanted to.

she never thought it was funny.

 

To quote Yoda from another topic some time ago, that woman was a nit-wit. Sometimes it's easier to pass left to left because the locks line up that way, sometimes the descending boat is forced left by the bywash, but there is no rule, and the presumption would be keep right.

 

Not had any real problems on exchanging locks though, although as I know people fairly senior in BW I have occassionaly rung reporting boat name and number if people are being really idiotic, it's amazing what effect that has. I know I know it's pulling rank but it was very satisfying when an unlicensed un-named boat pulled out just in front of us, effed and blinded at us because we were too close behind and left all the gates open up Tyrley then found a BW ranger or whatever they're called waiting for him at the top lock

[RLWP]

Most boats we've crossed have instinctively gone to their right - I've never heard of any instruction saying the opposite.

 

Tom

 

Where's those byelaws again... Hang on... It's section 17 ... the thing about passing port to port.....

 

 

 

 

Richard

 

I think the gold braid on this hat is particularly fetching!

 

effed and blinded at us

 

That one is Byelaw 43. (2) about using scurrilous, abusive, offensive or threatening language.....

 

There's an answer to every response in these byelaws!

 

Richard

 

I think I may get some epaulettes too....

[cotswoldsman]

Before we had a gap to move out in to, the first down-coming boat pushed it's way in to the lock with us still in there. No harm done, of course, but I've never once had it happen before. Have I lead a sheltered life ? Is this common practice further North? (It doesn't happen "down South", in my experience!).

 

Alan

 

Alan sure this wasn't me..... as I did this in June at the end of the T & M I was waiting for the 2 boats to come out of the lock holding the boat in mid canal the first boat came out and the second boat was taking ages sudenly the wind started coming up and I decided I might as well enter the lock where the first boat had come out and the second boat was still just sitting. (I have to say I have never done this before) Well the abuse I got from the guy on the back of the boat was something else, I asked why he was not leaving the lock and he explained that his wife had gone to the shop to buy a newspaper and hopefully should be back soon, I sugested maybe he might like to wait for her outside the lock, he expained he could not do this as he would be unable to moore up without his wifes help and anyway I should not have entered lock until he had left. After waiting for about another 5 mins with him looking daggers at me his wife still had not returned, so I started closing the gates as another boat had arrived below the lock to come up thought I might aswell take him down again then he could come up again with the other boat. As you might imagine other boat thought this was a very bad idea (guess I can't blame him) anyway at this point the wife returned with the Daily Mail!!!!

[Bullfrog]

.....at this point the wife returned with the Daily Mail!!!!

 

Wasn't Alan then, he's made is opinion of the Mail very clear in another post!

[Hairy-Neil]

Is this common practice further North? (It doesn't happen "down South", in my experience!).

 

Alan

 

I did it once at 'Nags Head Three' but there were odd circumstances. Was with a loaded motor towing an empty butty. Rounded the bend, lock being emptied by my lock wheeling crew I anticipated the gates opening and loosed the butty off. Then 10 yards from the gates they opened revealing a boat in the lock my crew hadn't warned me of.

 

I had little option but to continue into the lock.....

 

I wouldn't recommend you make a habit of it. I wasn't the most popular person on the GU that morning, but the crew learned why I needed to know if the lock wasn't mine.

[Tiny]

You're loving them bye-laws, aren't you, Richard!

 

Seriously though, this is a good case where you could legitimately quote, (or show), them to the ignorant woman involved.

 

Not that she'll believe you, of course - she has been on the canal for years, and knows what she's talking about.

 

To introduce some balance, I would yet again quote our recent 3 week, 350 mile, 370 locks (approx) trip. Only at one point did someone attempt to turn a lock on us, and I believe even that was just a lack of attention, rather than malicious. We passed in many flights, amd mostly people were well disciplined, holding back in locks until the one they were going to exchange with was ready, (generally) making passing in the pounds easy.

 

We did have one piece of behaviour I've never encountered before, though. We had shared a broad lock going up, and the lead boat made their way from the lock, picking their way between two in the pound waiting to come down. Before we had a gap to move out in to, the first down-coming boat pushed it's way in to the lock with us still in there. No harm done, of course, but I've never once had it happen before. Have I lead a sheltered life ? Is this common practice further North? (It doesn't happen "down South", in my experience!).

 

Alan

 

It's happened to us. Once it was a show boat in a hurry to get to a show who waited just outside and as the gate opened just dived in before we could come out.

 

The other time was much more dangerous. We (boat and me) came up in a wide lock to find a bloke (who we found instructs hire boats (which go out from a bankside yard some 20 locks away) on technique and thought himself a real expert) giving no help but chatting to his mate while ignoring my wife - who opened the nearside gate for me to come out of. Chummies boat is at the mooring with two women yabbing on the back.

 

As the wife opens the gate, chummy strides round the locks and starts opening the other gate, while the boat at the mooring floats out into the canal diagonally blocking our way. As the wife finishes winding down her paddle and goes to climb aboard chummy tells us to 'get on with it' at which I point out that we can't go anywhere with this boat in the way. At this moment the boat in question starts moving - straight for lock - aiming for the centre as though we don't exist - and it keeps coming with much engine on - ignoring hoots and yells. It hits us just as the wife steps onto the floor at our front end. Then, with bright smiles and waves the two women, still yabbing, crash down the side of us with us both hanging on for dear life and are only stopped when the ram the gate.

 

Feeling quite angry at this needless bit of stupidity I open with 'You silly cow' and go on to expand on this while demanding to know why they moved off, entered the lock etc.. The tearing herself away from her important conversation, the lady informs that their boat is much too heavy to hold to the bank for her and her mate and that it's not her fault etc.. At this point Mr on the far bank weighs in with his 'I am an instructor and you should have left the lock - they were in the right' - at which point we, somewhat shaken, have passed out of the lock - leaving it to the ladies - who obviously were not instructed about reverse and so are jammed on the bottom gate.

[Tiny]

Not sure what the "chapter and verse" is, but if I hold the boat mid-stream rather than tying up then I favour passing on the right if there's a choice. The main thing is to be seen: the boats will be moving quite slowly approaching or exiting a lock, and there are 'ground crew' to catch ropes etc. if needs be, so provided everyone knows where you are and what's happening, there shouldn't be a problem passing on either side. The main thing is to give them enough space to exit the lock, pick up errant crew etc. and then sort themselves out before you cross. Luckily this tends to equate almost exactly to the distance you'll need to get squared up to go in, so it makes sense all round.

 

Most boats we've crossed have instinctively gone to their right - I've never heard of any instruction saying the opposite.

 

Tom

 

When I hang in mid canal waiting for a boat to exit a lock I assume we will pass left to left - but it depends on the ideas of the other boat so I am willing to go either side just as long as they get out of the lock entrance - which some don't - so I can get in.

 

Because of this I hang back as far as possible (to give me room) staying in the next lock if it's a flight. Once they start coming, if they seem unsure as to which side I try to tell them (with the finger) you that side. But only when they start moving I do beging the pass as some say one thing and do another.

 

The one that really annoys is ones in short pounds who get half way round then start mucking about. We had a classic case of this at Bosley with an expert who only had to drive forward into the lock but then, as he passed for some reason went into reverse, leaving his back end blocking my back end swing as I turned into the lock. By the time he finished mucking about he was half way across the pound with his wife effing at me for getting in his way - I having assessed the problem and slid past him (just). Strangely these sorts of things happen much more with private boaters than hire ones who tend to operate a best foot forward and worry about the lock when you get there system.

[alan_fincher]

Alan sure this wasn't me..... as I did this in June at the end of the T & M.

Definitely wasn't us - it was on the T&M IIRC, but not in June.

 

............and the second boat was taking ages sudenly the wind started coming up and I decided I might as well enter the lock where the first boat had come out and the second boat was still just sitting.

Again, that would rule us out - we usually get going pretty promptly, as long as we have somewhere to go. (I didn't in the case I've referred to...)

 

Well the abuse I got from the guy on the back of the boat

In our case I was so thrown that no words were exchanged at all.

 

.....anyway at this point the wife returned with the Daily Mail!!!!

Again, as someone has said, that would rule us out. (Grounds for a divorce, in my view!).

 

I'm interested there have been cases where people have either had to do this, or had it done to them. It doesn't dound like it happens routinely anywhere, the, just where exceptional cases occur, or someone has failed to concentrate.

 

 

Alan sure this wasn't me..... as I did this in June at the end of the T & M.

Definitely wasn't us - it was on the T&M IIRC, but not in June.

 

............and the second boat was taking ages sudenly the wind started coming up and I decided I might as well enter the lock where the first boat had come out and the second boat was still just sitting.

Again, that would rule us out - we usually get going pretty promptly, as long as we have somewhere to go. (I didn't in the case I've referred to...)

 

Well the abuse I got from the guy on the back of the boat

In our case I was so thrown that no words were exchanged at all.

 

.....anyway at this point the wife returned with the Daily Mail!!!!

Again, as someone has said, that would rule us out. (Grounds for a divorce, in my view!).

 

I'm interested there have been cases where people have either had to do this, or had it done to them. It doesn't dound like it happens routinely anywhere, the, just where exceptional cases occur, or someone has failed to concentrate.

[opus]

a few times when i have been heading to a lock, theres been a boat coming out, then decide to shut the gates before we get there, when they pass me i thank them for leaving the lock gates open

[alan_fincher]

if they seem unsure as to which side I try to tell them (with the finger) you that side.

I genuinely believe that's one of the areas where confusion occurs.

 

People think they are making a clear signal to mean either "I'm going that side", or "You, please go that side".

 

One persons clear signal. is another persons ambiguity!.

 

One of the keepers of the bye-laws will now pop up and tell us the pattern of horn, (or "whistle"!), blasts for "I'm passing to the left" or "I'm passing to the right", but I'm not actually sure if there is one for "As there are two of you, and you are all over the place, I'm actually best going gown the middle".

[bottle]

Use arm signals .................................as per the highway code.