First Time Buyer

[Grace and Favour]

"The North"

 

Damn big place, and I'd expect sweeping statements about "The North" from shandy drinking southern jessies, not from somebody in Yorkshire!

 

There are moorings to be had in many parts of the North.

 

 

Clarence Dock, in Leeds Centre, are currently open for tenders for moorings .

 

(all new & shiny too!!!!)

[NB Alnwick]

Two identical topics have been merged under the same initial post which had been duplicated. This thread has already taken several directions so it would be helpful to originator if we could get back on topic. The question from Rob (SYBoater) is:

 

I have been taking narrowboat holidays for quite some time and me and my partner are thinking about buying a narrowboat to liveaboard in the North West/Yorkshire region and was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on the best places to keep an eye on to buy our first boat.

 

I have been looking on some marina websites and sites such as apolloduck.com but they are all quite expensive. We don't mind a project boat to 'do up' as long as the electrics and plumbing are completed (I'm not comfortable messing with plumbing/gas/electrics).

 

If any of you have any advice or know where there is a sound boat going, even BW seized boats that they're auctioning, if anyone knows who to contact/websites.

 

Edited to add that I am just as guilty of going off topic as anyone else!

Edited July 31, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[Chris Pink]

My motives are to help people who wish to live on a boat to have realistic expectations of what is entailed and what the costs are. If you take like for like lifestyle choices, the appreciation of propery value against depreciation of boat values (for we must compare buying with buying, not buying with renting) and the maintenance costs I would be very surprised if it was cheaper.

 

Well the subject of making corporations rich by buying into the idea of a 25 year debt is one for another day. Thatcher has a lot to answer for there.

 

Not everyone can buy a house in order to rob the next generation, I believe the minimum salary to buy a house around here is £30,000. Inner party stuff.

 

And why can't we compare buying with renting? However you live they are your housing costs.

 

I know a lot of people who live more cheaply on boats than they possibly could in a house, both through need and choice. There are certain minimum costs associated with a house that are higher than those of a boat, especially for someone looking for a cheap (read small) boat as the OP seems to be.

 

There is far more choice as to what services and utilities as well as financial models of living are available on a boat.

 

Mortgage or rent, electricity bills and pre-payment meters, council tax, water rates, it is my opinion that all these things are used as opportunities for financial exploitation and by using what choices there are make it possible to live more cheaply on a boat (or vehicle or canvas) than in a conventional house.

 

And if it costs more to heat your boat than your house you're doing something wrong Graham.

[NB Alnwick]

And if it costs more to heat your boat than your house you're doing something wrong Graham.

 

I may just be doing something right - as I said I do prefer being on the boat. For a start its far too cold in the house

 

Being serious, I would never pretend that the economics of living on a boat long term are favourable. It has to be a lifestyle choice rather than an economic one. Having said that most people make the same sort of choice wherever they choose to live and the economics rarely beat emotional choices.

[ditchcrawler]

£10,000 - £15,000 max. I know it's not a lot but it's all we can afford... Even if the boat looks a bit of a wreck as long as it floats and the engine is sound with the plumbing/gas/electrics ok then I can rip the interior out and fit it out again and give it a repaint.

 

Thanks.

 

You have just missed this auction but have a look at http://www.goindustry.com/en/auctions/brit...p;Track=Auction

to get an idea of prices

[Chris Pink]

Being serious, I would never pretend that the economics of living on a boat long term are favourable.

 

 

You speak as a house owner with a mature mortgage - you are by no means the norm.

[mayalld]

Not everyone can buy a house in order to rob the next generation, I believe the minimum salary to buy a house around here is £30,000. Inner party stuff.

 

"Rob the next generation" Wow! I do love the hyperbole.

 

There is far more choice as to what services and utilities as well as financial models of living are available on a boat.

 

Does this include the various financial models that involve just not paying for things.

 

Mortgage or rent, electricity bills and pre-payment meters, council tax, water rates, it is my opinion that all these things are used as opportunities for financial exploitation and by using what choices there are make it possible to live more cheaply on a boat (or vehicle or canvas) than in a conventional house.

I think the OP wanted advice on buying a boat, rather that marxist propaganda.

[alan_fincher]

http://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/Used-Boats/...Greenfinch.aspx

I can't get that link to open on my mobile internet connection.

 

But if it's the boat I think I recall, then it has been on their books a long while I think.

 

If I were a gambling man, I'd put good money on it probably not being a structurally sound shell.

 

Alan

 

(Current cruise locaton Stourton Locks, Stourbridge Canal - '3' internet connection is variable).

[sueb]

Remember you will need a boat safety certificate and a mooring.

Sue

[alan_fincher]

http://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/Used-Boats/...Greenfinch.aspx

 

 

I can't get that link to open on my mobile internet connection.

 

But if it's the boat I think I recall, then it has been on their books a long while I think.

 

If I were a gambling man, I'd put good money on it probably not being a structurally sound shell.

 

Alan

 

(Current cruise locaton Stourton Locks, Stourbridge Canal - '3' internet connection is variable).

 

 

Ah! Can open the link now......

 

Says it's sold though!

[dizzyknits]

though it grieves me there is also

 

http://www.bluewater-marina.co.uk/index.html

 

as on an earlier post you can offer a lower offer from asking price, (after all all they can say is no). We offered £2500 less than asking price for our boat and it was snapped up and we still paid more than it was worth. ( cos we was naive)

 

saying that, it has given us enormous pleasure in the last year ( along with the inevitable mishaps!!!!!)

 

lizzie

[grahoom]

Ah! Can open the link now......

 

Says it's sold though!

 

oh , so it does! - but you're right, it has been on the books for a long while, - but it wasn't advertised as sold when I posted the link! - it was on the books for just over 12K, reduced from 24K!

[Dominic M]

And the average annual wage (broadcast earlier in the year by the same source) is £33,000 or thereabouts. Many of us earn less than the average wage and, therefore, necessarily own smaller than average houses and pay out less than average amounts on all sorts of commodities including heating.

 

As someone, who owns a house and a boat and also carries out ruthless analysis of the spending on each - simply because I don't have anything like the average income to play with, I am quite sure that, in the longer term, it works out a lot cheaper to live on the land. Nevertheless, I prefer living afloat and continue to do so most of the time for that reason.

I have lived on boats for many years. I have to disagree with that statement (sorry, Graham!). Unless you are factoring in the increase in property values a boat is a far cheaper way of living - even with the massive hike in licence fees over the past few years.

[Chris Pink]

"Rob the next generation" Wow! I do love the hyperbole.

 

 

 

Does this include the various financial models that involve just not paying for things.

 

 

I think the OP wanted advice on buying a boat, rather that marxist propaganda.

 

 

If you think my opinions are Marxist, your understanding of Marxism is as thin and floppy as your understanding of people who wish to live under different social models.

 

"not paying for things" yes, collecting wood rather than paying British Gas' 35% increase is a choice many find worth making. If you refer to a boat licence then my advice is; pay it Dave, it's very good value for money.

 

"rob the next generation" yes, that was a bit of a tabloid statement but i refer you to the Independent (that Marxist rag) ;

 

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ britons-falling-16387bn-short-in-retirement-savings-421848.html

 

or the BBC (more Trotsky-ite wouldn't you say?)

 

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4330166.stm

[NB Alnwick]

I have lived on boats for many years. I have to disagree with that statement (sorry, Graham!). Unless you are factoring in the increase in property values a boat is a far cheaper way of living - even with the massive hike in licence fees over the past few years.

 

You do have to look at all the costs including the overall loss or gain in the value of your asset and the costy of keeping it 'as new' because, in economic terms, it does not make sense to allow an asset to rot away. A steel boat needs blacking at least every other year and a full repaint every four or five years. Prices vary but a professional job by someone like Phil Speight & Co might cost as much as £8,000 - a brick built house with modern window and door frames needs very little external attention.

 

The biggest maintenance bill we have had with our house is a repair to the central heating boiler just over a year ago which cost just under £250. We have spent more than twenty times that amount maintaining the boat in the same period.

 

You also have to look at the cost of raising finance. As Chris Pink observes we have paid for our house (and our boat) but it wasn't easy and I have lived through a period when the annual mortgage interest reached near 15% - these days home mortgage interest is very much lower but it is rarely possible to get anywhere near such a good deal on boat finance.

 

These things cannot be ignored. Nevertheless, being ruled by my heart rather than my head, I would prefer to live on a boat anyday and, for the time being, I suppose I have the best of both worlds.

[mayalld]

"not paying for things" yes, collecting wood rather than paying British Gas' 35% increase is a choice many find worth making. If you refer to a boat licence then my advice is; pay it Dave, it's very good value for money.

I do, without fail.

 

Yes, there are things like collecting wood (particularly where it has been left for boaters to take, thus saving BW having to pay to remove it) that are legitimate ways of not paying for things.

 

There is also licence evasion, and continuous mooring where the boater has simply taken it upon himself to decide that the rules don't apply to him.

"rob the next generation" yes, that was a bit of a tabloid statement but i refer you to the Independent (that Marxist rag) ;

 

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ britons-falling-16387bn-short-in-retirement-savings-421848.html

 

or the BBC (more Trotsky-ite wouldn't you say?)

 

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4330166.stm

 

Yup, claptrap!

 

How is owning a house robbing the next generation?

 

I have what I have because I've worked damned hard to earn it. I haven't inherited a penny of it.

 

My parents inherited nothing when my grandparents died, and I have no expectation of inheriting anything when my parents die. I have made, through careful management of often limited income, adequate provision for my own old age.

 

I am most certainly not robbing the next generation of anything.

[Dominic M]

You do have to look at all the costs including the overall loss or gain in the value of your asset and the costy of keeping it 'as new' because, in economic terms, it does not make sense to allow an asset to rot away. A steel boat needs blacking at least every other year and a full repaint every four or five years. Prices vary but a professional job by someone like Phil Speight & Co might cost as much as £8,000 - a brick built house with modern window and door frames needs very little external attention.

 

The biggest maintenance bill we have had with our house is a repair to the central heating boiler just over a year ago which cost just under £250. We have spent more than twenty times that amount maintaining the boat in the same period.

 

You also have to look at the cost of raising finance. As Chris Pink observes we have paid for our house (and our boat) but it wasn't easy and I have lived through a period when the annual mortgage interest reached near 15% - these days home mortgage interest is very much lower but it is rarely possible to get anywhere near such a good deal on boat finance.

 

These things cannot be ignored. Nevertheless, being ruled by my heart rather than my head, I would prefer to live on a boat anyday and, for the time being, I suppose I have the best of both worlds.

 

Well, I agree with your final sentence. You cannot boil everything down to money - the practice of a person who kbnows the price of everything and the value of nothing. I love living on a boat too. I like the fact that I can nip down to Lower Hillmorton with my home for a night and go out for a curry and a few drinks without the hassle of having to find transport home afterwards, for example.

 

A Phil Speight paint job is certainly not cheap. It is a very good paint job. But it is a choice. No one HAS to spend that sort of money painting a boat and the primary purpose is to protect the structure. Everything else about it, decoration, motifs, saloon car gloss finish etc is non-essential frippery really. And while a modern brick house with plastic windows is cheap to maintain a 17th century thatched cottage is less so. So in the same way you can have a functional but boring land based dwelling that costs less to run than a house with a lot of character.

 

I think the only comparisons you can make when working out the cost of afloat v. ashore are running costs - heat, light, power, maintenance, council tax, mooring fees, licence, insurances.

[Chris Pink]

There is also licence evasion, and continuous mooring where the boater has simply taken it upon himself to decide that the rules don't apply to him.

 

 

How is owning a house robbing the next generation?

 

So people who live in houses never steal or evade paying for things or break the rules? How does your statement help clarify the debate?

 

As to your other point;

You seem to be a fairly intelligent man, Dave, i am surprised you can't work it out yourself.

 

I am trying to find a reference from the Daily Telegraph as most of your opinions seem straight from that paper but i will explain;

 

If you buy a house for one price and it becomes 'worth' a figure above the level of inflation (and its intrinsic value) and you use that increase in equity to fund your retirement then the next generation pay for that increase of equity when they try to buy a house.

 

All other forms of pyramid selling (of which this is a particularly nasty kind) are illegal.

 

I found that Telegraph reference for you;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/203...dit-crisis.html

 

although, as may be expected it is a bit of winge that this kind of practice is coming to an end (as was inevitable)

 

This is what I refuse to sign up too, it does not make me a Marxist.

[mayalld]

As to your other point;

You seem to be a fairly intelligent man, Dave, i am surprised you can't work it out yourself.

 

I am trying to find a reference from the Daily Telegraph as most of your opinions seem straight from that paper but i will explain;

 

They must read my posts, for I certainly never read their newspaper

 

If you buy a house for one price and it becomes 'worth' a figure above the level of inflation (and its intrinsic value) and you use that increase in equity to fund your retirement then the next generation pay for that increase of equity when they try to buy a house.

 

Ah well, I'm in the clear then, cos my house has remained remakably static in value over the years.