Inverter mounting

[Smelly]

Being as I've never seen this done I've probably already answered my own question, but I thought I'd ask... In a crusier stern, what are the problems with mounting an inverter in the engine 'ole? Is it too hot or too rattly or what?

 

I've just got a new Sterling 1K; it's titchy and could mount out of the way "downstairs", freeing up some wall where the current behemoth lurks. As it's getting a bit crammed and I'm going to be mounting the solar controller on said same wall I'd like the space.

 

New toys aplenty

[Gibbo]

Being as I've never seen this done I've probably already answered my own question, but I thought I'd ask... In a crusier stern, what are the problems with mounting an inverter in the engine 'ole? Is it too hot or too rattly or what?

 

I've just got a new Sterling 1K; it's titchy and could mount out of the way "downstairs", freeing up some wall where the current behemoth lurks. As it's getting a bit crammed and I'm going to be mounting the solar controller on said same wall I'd like the space.

 

New toys aplenty

 

I'd be very wary of putting *any* electronic equipment under the deck of a cruiser. They are notorious for getting wet. When I used to repair inverters at least 9 out of 10 of those that were water damaged were under a cruiser stern. Even the apparently dry places seem to get drenched.

 

Gibbo

[blackrose]

I think if you've had the boat for a while you will know which places get wet or attract condensation. High up on the bulkhead which separates the engine hole from the cabin, but not directly below the deckboards is usually pretty safe - I've seen a few battery chargers mounted there without any problems. The other thing is ventilation. Presumably the space isn't insulated, but if it's well ventilated you shouldn't have a problem with condensation. However, remember that the inverter you are installing will produce heat and so could be a source of condensation.

[Gibbo]

I think if you've had the boat for a while you will know which places get wet or attract condensation. High up on the bulkhead which separates the engine hole from the cabin, but not directly below the deckboards is usually pretty safe - I've seen a few battery chargers mounted there without any problems.

 

And I've repaired hundreds that were mounted there

 

Gibbo

[blackrose]

And I've repaired hundreds that were mounted there

 

Gibbo

 

But did you see exactly where they were mounted? If it's under the deckboards then it's asking for trouble.

[Gibbo]

But did you see exactly where they were mounted? If it's under the deckboards then it's asking for trouble.

 

Not all of them obviously but there were two in particular that stuck in my memory. One was a charger that was on the bulkhead, under the deck against the gunwale. A good 2 feet from the edge of the deckboards. The damage was quite extensive and it cost him about half the price of a new one to get it fixed. He was told quite categorically that it was water damage. 3 months later it was back again with similar damage, and a similar invoice. He'd mounted it back in exactly the same place! Bu**er me if it wasn't back again 2 months later after the owner fitted it, you guessed it, in the same place yet again. This time it was beyond repair. It still had water in it when we opened it.

 

The other one was an inverter and in this case you're quite right. It was mounted right underneath the deckboards. That one too was back again shortly after with similar damage. He too had mounted it back in the same place having been told in no uncertain terms that it was water damage.

 

Some people eh!

 

Gibbo

[Smelly]

I'd anticipated the deckboards thing... I've got a scouser, and the swim, upon which the batteries are mounted doesn't quite reach in as far as the deckboards do, so if the runnels were full o sh*t the water runs straight down into the engine bay... (I learned about the bilge pump when that happened!) and I think i'd gamble that none's hitting the front of the battery box, the wooden front doesn't look water damaged and it's been down there more than 2 years.

 

Rainwater, as a rule, doesn't get into the engine bay now that I keep my runnels clean, but I would be naive to assume it wouldn't in the future, and I suppose there's always the worry of water getting into the vents when locking down, but if I baffed the vent as well?

 

I think I'd be tempted to replace the deck boards at the same time for peace of mind, probably wtih flanged ones to further discourage water (and sh*t) even further from the engine bay.

 

So it's been done!

 

Gibbo, don't spose you remember whether your blokey with the unit over the swim copuld have had water bouncing off the swim?

 

Edit to say I hadn't thought about condensation though. Hmm.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Smelly

[Gibbo]

Gibbo, don't spose you remember whether your blokey with the unit over the swim copuld have had water bouncing off the swim?

 

Like many people who look under the deck of their own cruiser, the owner insisted it was dry. I know from experience of reparing inverters and battery chargers for 15 years that it isn't. The last time he sent it back I put it on the bench, opened it up and a good half cup full of water came out of it. He swore blind it was dry under there.

 

We never found out where it was coming from.

 

But try this. Go cruising in very cold weather. A few hours after the engine has been shut down have a look under the deck. The walls will be drenched. I have never seen a dry cruiser engine hole. Not ever. I suspect this is the major cause of wetness under there.

 

The fact that someone has a charger or inverter under a cruiser deck that has been fine for a few years is not proof that they don't get wet. The fact that several have been damaged by water under there *is* proof that they do.

 

By all means fit your unit under there. Afterall it's your boat and equipment. But I strongly suspect you will regret it if you do!

 

Gibbo

[Smelly]

Try this. Go cruising in very cold weather. A few hours after the engine has been shut down have a look under the deck. The walls will be drenched. I have never seen a dry cruiser engine hole. Not ever. I suspect this is the major cause of wetness under there.

 

The fact that someone has a charger or inverter under a cruiser deck that has been fine for a few years is not proof that they don't get wet. The fact that several have been damaged by water under there *is* proof that they do.

 

By all means fit your unit under there. Afterall it's your boat and equipment. But I strongly suspect you will regret it if you do!

 

 

Like I said, I hadn't thought about condensation, methinks your wisdom falls on accepting ears, next to the bin it is, have you ever come across an inverter that's broke because of an old banana skin or damp tea bag?

 

Many thanks!

 

Dan.

[John Orentas]

You don't have to go cruising, I only became a fan of diesel engines after buying my first boat, with a cruiser stern.. Looking into the engine compartment on a winters morning the whole area would be swimming with condensation, I remember thinking at the time that if this was a petrol engine I would be messing about for hours with WD40, hair driers and fan heaters to get it going, as it was it would always fire up first time.

 

Not just 'state of the art electronics' suffer, I have changed several of those red handled isolators that have been fitted down there in friends' boats, they work well enough in dry conditions, rubbish when damp.

 

All this is a good reason to opt for a 'traditional' type cabin too.. Electrics and damp don't mix.

[blackrose]

But try this. Go cruising in very cold weather. A few hours after the engine has been shut down have a look under the deck. The walls will be drenched. I have never seen a dry cruiser engine hole. Not ever. I suspect this is the major cause of wetness under there.

 

If it's condensation then the drenched walls could apply equally to an uninsulated engine room on a trad stern. In fact my current widebeam cruiser stern engine hole stays bone dry - summer or winter, whereas the engine room in my previous trad stern did get wet with condensation. The reason? An air-cooled Lister-Petter in the trad.

 

Still, you're probably right, electronic appliances are safer inside the cabin.

 

... so if the runnels were full o sh*t the water runs straight down into the engine bay...

 

Runnels eh? I just called them gutters. I've just learned a new word

Edited May 29, 2008 by blackrose

[Gibbo]

In fact my current widebeam cruiser stern engine hole stays bone dry..........

 

And I had written in previous posts............

 

"Even the apparently dry places seem to get drenched"

 

"Like many people who look under the deck of their own cruiser, the owner insisted it was dry"

 

"He swore blind it was dry under there"

 

Do you spot a pattern?

 

 

Gibbo

[BlueStringPudding]

Ours has plenty of ventilation but still gets lots of condensation depending on the weather and whether the engine's been running. I'd keep my electrics outta there.

[blackrose]

And I had written in previous posts............

 

"Even the apparently dry places seem to get drenched"

 

"Like many people who look under the deck of their own cruiser, the owner insisted it was dry"

 

"He swore blind it was dry under there"

 

Do you spot a pattern?

 

 

Gibbo

 

Yes, you keep insisting that boats you've never seen are saturated. That may be your experience, but it isn't mine.

 

Just because you've seen something that occurs on some boats you've assumed it applies to all boats. In my opinion that's an incorrect assumption.

 

I too swear blind that my engine hole is dry and has never been wet... In this case the difference is that I am right.

 

I live on it so I know.

Edited May 29, 2008 by blackrose

[Gibbo]

Yes, you keep insisting that boats you've never seen are saturated. That may be your experience, but it isn't mine.

 

Just because you've seen something that occurs on some boats you've assumed it applies to all boats. In my opinion that's an incorrect assumption.

 

I too swear blind that my engine hole is dry and has never been wet... In this case the difference is that I am right.

 

I live on it so I know.

 

The owner of the water damaged charger lived on his boat. He knew it was dry. He knew he was right too

 

Gibbo

[blackrose]

The owner of the water damaged charger lived on his boat. He knew it was dry. He knew he was right too

 

Gibbo

 

And I suppose his boat was a widebeam? So all boats are the same and the amount of airspace & ventilation doesn't factor into it at all? I think you'd better stick to marine electrics.

 

Tell you what Gibbo, I've seen you lay down electrical challenges - here's one for you: if you're so adamant that my engine hole gets wet, come down to see me in the middle of winter and we'll run the engine for a couple of hours. I'll lay you £50 you can't find any dampness in there and if you can I'll pay for your petrol too.

[Gibbo]

And I suppose his boat was a widebeam? So all boats are the same and the amount of airspace & ventilation doesn't factor into it at all? I think you'd better stick to marine electrics.

 

Tell you what Gibbo, I've seen you lay down electrical challenges - here's one for you: if you're so adamant that my engine hole gets wet, come down to see me in the middle of winter and we'll run the engine for a couple of hours. I'll lay you £50 you can't find any dampness in there and if you can I'll pay for your petrol too.

 

Better still. Fit all your electronics in there and see how long it lasts.

 

For the benefit of others readng this thread. I am talking here from *well* over 20 years experience in this field. If you put battery chargers, inverters etc in the engine 'ole under a cruiser stern they will almost certainly fail (eventually) as a result of water damage. I've seen it *hundreds* of times. And every time the boat owner has sworn blind that "it's totally dry down there". Every single time. And every time it's the boat owner (not me) that has to get his/her wallet out as I drain half a cup full of water out of a few hundred quidsworth of kit then start to tackle the damage left behind in a piece of kit that "can't possibly have got wet because it's bone dry down there". It became a tiresome story after several years.

 

Gibbo

Edited May 30, 2008 by Gibbo

[nbfiresprite]

Being as I've never seen this done I've probably already answered my own question, but I thought I'd ask... In a crusier stern, what are the problems with mounting an inverter in the engine 'ole? Is it too hot or too rattly or what?

 

I've just got a new Sterling 1K; it's titchy and could mount out of the way "downstairs", freeing up some wall where the current behemoth lurks. As it's getting a bit crammed and I'm going to be mounting the solar controller on said same wall I'd like the space.

 

New toys aplenty

Engline rooms can get Hot (60-80), Inverters like it around 18 and dry

 

 

Mount it in side the cabin on the rear bulkhead, As the temp inside the cabin is more controled. You can box it in, but make sure you have at least 3" airspace all round plus air vents top and bottom for cooling.

 

My Prosine is still going after 10 years of liveabrod use.

 

Firesprite

[smileypete]

And I suppose his boat was a widebeam? So all boats are the same and the amount of airspace & ventilation doesn't factor into it at all? I think you'd better stick to marine electrics.

<Deep drawing of breath....>

 

Tell you what Gibbo, I've seen you lay down electrical challenges - here's one for you: if you're so adamant that my engine hole gets wet, come down to see me in the middle of winter and we'll run the engine for a couple of hours. I'll lay you £50 you can't find any dampness in there and if you can I'll pay for your petrol too.

 

I work within the law that states almost anything on a boat may get wet somehow at sometime

 

I accept that builders and owners of new boats can have the most naive beliefs to the contrary.

 

For example: water pipe leak in engine hole gets missed over winter, condensation everywhere, end of story!

 

Would you lay £50 that pipes on a boat never leak?

 

Would you lay £50 that 1" of water in the engine ole won't cause any condensation?

 

cheers,

Pete.

[blackrose]

Better still. Fit all your electronics in there and see how long it lasts.

 

For the benefit of others readng this thread. I am talking here from *well* over 20 years experience in this field. If you put battery chargers, inverters etc in the engine 'ole under a cruiser stern they will almost certainly fail (eventually) as a result of water damage. I've seen it *hundreds* of times. And every time the boat owner has sworn blind that "it's totally dry down there". Every single time. And every time it's the boat owner (not me) that has to get his/her wallet out as I drain half a cup full of water out of a few hundred quidsworth of kit then start to tackle the damage left behind in a piece of kit that "can't possibly have got wet because it's bone dry down there". It became a tiresome story after several years.

 

Gibbo

 

I haven't installed my chargers or inverter in the engine hole as a matter of fact, simply because it suits me better to have easy access to them in the cabin, but I know of many people who have without a problem. Your mate Chris W has installed his charger below decks.

 

In addition, I also mentioned previously that any condensation resulting from a hot engine in an uninsluated engine space will apply equally to a cruiser stern or trad.

 

Anyway, I think I already said that electronics were generally safer inside, but I don't think it's wrong per se to install them in either a trad or cruiser engine space.

 

<Deep drawing of breath....>

 

 

 

I work within the law that states almost anything on a boat may get wet somehow at sometime

 

I accept that builders and owners of new boats can have the most naive beliefs to the contrary.

 

For example: water pipe leak in engine hole gets missed over winter, condensation everywhere, end of story!

 

Would you lay £50 that pipes on a boat never leak?

 

Would you lay £50 that 1" of water in the engine ole won't cause any condensation?

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Heavy condensation of the kind that could damage electronics is usually caused when warm moist air comes into contact with a cold surface. It's not generally the result of a burst pipe & standing water. However, since you mentioned it, yes I agree anything can happen and burst or leaking pipes can happen anywhere on a boat - that means inside the cabin too. I've heard a few stories here of people not realising they had water in their bilges inside the boat.

Edited May 30, 2008 by blackrose