Tap and die sets

[pwl]

I am looking to buy a set of taps to thread holes in the NB upper hull for fitments. Seems I cant buys taps without dies these days. Some descritions refer to 'Metric Course' and 'Metric Fine' others just to Metric. I dont intend to produce my own bolts so need the taps that will work with standard commercial bolts [M3 M4 M5 etc]but cant fine a definition of the difference between course and fine and which is the most common commercial bolt type. Can anyone help?

 

P

[AlanH]

I am looking to buy a set of taps to thread holes in the NB upper hull for fitments. Seems I cant buys taps without dies these days. Some descritions refer to 'Metric Course' and 'Metric Fine' others just to Metric. I dont intend to produce my own bolts so need the taps that will work with standard commercial bolts [M3 M4 M5 etc]but cant fine a definition of the difference between course and fine and which is the most common commercial bolt type. Can anyone help?

 

P

The usual Metric threads (M5 M6 etc.) are coarse series. The fine series is not often used.

[John Orentas]

And for normal jobs on boat you will very rarely need the three taps in the set, (1, 2, & 3) if you buy one of each No 2 cut, they will cope with 95% of all your jobs, perhaps get 2 or 3 of the smaller sizes, they do break occasionally.

 

If you need tapping hole sizes, let us know.

[Timleech]

And for normal jobs on boat you will very rarely need the three taps in the set, (1, 2, & 3) if you buy one of each No 2 cut, they will cope with 95% of all your jobs, perhaps get 2 or 3 of the smaller sizes, they do break occasionally.

 

If you need tapping hole sizes, let us know.

 

..........and if you're confident enough, a 'spiral point' tap used in a cordless drill, with proper cutting lubricant, will do the job quickly & they're often cheaper and stronger than hand taps. They're not easy taps to use by hand with a tap wrench, though.

 

Tim

[dor]

I got my taps, in high speed steel not carbon steel, from PET tool hire (who also sell Calor propane much cheaper than the canl-side places).

 

Bought singly, about £3 each.

[larkshall]

Look at the draper catalogue, they are listed singly in there (as well as sets)

[pwl]

AlanH'

 

Thanks

 

 

And for normal jobs on boat you will very rarely need the three taps in the set, (1, 2, & 3) if you buy one of each No 2 cut, they will cope with 95% of all your jobs, perhaps get 2 or 3 of the smaller sizes, they do break occasionally.

 

If you need tapping hole sizes, let us know.

 

 

I am used the M numbers and have not seen 1 or 2. I assumed the Mx of a bolt was its diameter. Am I correct? I was planning to get a set with included drill set BUT knowing the correct hole size would be invluable information. Thanks

 

 

..........and if you're confident enough, a 'spiral point' tap used in a cordless drill, with proper cutting lubricant, will do the job quickly & they're often cheaper and stronger than hand taps. They're not easy taps to use by hand with a tap wrench, though.

 

Tim

 

I have not used a tap since metalwork in school which was ....Ummm. years ago but I wil look into 'spiral point' taps as I know by hand it can be a slow job.

 

 

'dor'

 

I will see if we have a local PET dealer andthe cheap propane would be nice as well!

 

'larkshall'

 

I will look fror Draper online. I had assumed they did not sell direct, It was a Draper set I was looking at.

 

Thanks to all

 

P

Edited April 21, 2008 by pwl

[Byeckerslike]

The standardised Metric Course threads are the one to go for these are:-

For sure, all automotive bolts will be supplied to his standard, a good source of bolts and nuts is Screwfix

The ISO Metric system classifies screw threads as the Diameter (M4) and the pitch of the thread (0,70) and always assumes that it is a single pitch thread, not a multiple helix thread

 

M4 x 0,70

M5 x 0,80

M6 x 1,00

M8 x 1,25

M10 x 1,50

M12 x 1,75

M14 x 2,00

M16 x 2,00

M18 x 2,00

M20 x 2,00

 

The tap number refers to the type of lead (which helps in aligment of the tap in the core thread (Nominal Drilling Diameter of the hole)

1 = Starter Tap (Typically 5 x pitch lead-in)

2 = Semi-Finish tap (Typically 3 x pitch lead-in)

3 = Finishing tap - (Typically 1.5 x pitch lead-in)

I would recommend as a minimum at least the No. 1 tap and that No. 3 tap as the basic number of taps to have for a given thread size, But! one can get away with the No. 1 (Starter Tap) if the threaded hole is a through hole, with no obstructions behind the material being tapped. But, without doubt if the hole is a "Blind" hole (a none-through hole) a number 1 and number 3 tap must be used - with caution, you must avoid "bottoming" the tap on the bottom of the hole, otherwise, there is a good chance that the tap will snap in the hole, leaving you with another problem.......

Edited April 21, 2008 by Byeckerslike

[pwl]

The standardised Metric Course threads are the one to go for these are:-

For sure, all automotive bolts will be supplied to his standard, a good source of bolts and nuts is Screwfix

The ISO Metric system classifies screw threads as the Diameter (M4) and the pitch of the thread (0,70) and always assumes that it is a single pitch thread, not a multiple helix thread

 

M4 x 0,70

M5 x 0,80

M6 x 1,00

M8 x 1,25

M10 x 1,50

M12 x 1,75

M14 x 2,00

M16 x 2,00

M18 x 2,00

M20 x 2,00

 

The tap number refers to the type of lead (which helps in aligment of the tap in the core thread (Nominal Drilling Diameter of the hole)

1 = Starter Tap (Typically 5 x pitch lead-in)

2 = Semi-Finish tap (Typically 3 x pitch lead-in)

3 = Finishing tap - (Typically 1.5 x pitch lead-in)

I would recommend as a minimum at least the No. 1 tap and that No. 3 tap as the basic number of taps to have for a given thread size, but! one can get away with the No. 1 (Starter Tap) if the threaded hole is a through hole, with no obstrcutions behind the material being tapped. But, without doubt if the hole is a "Blind" hole (a none-through hole) a number 1 and number 3 tap must be used - with caution, you must avoid "bottoming" the tap on the bottom of the hole, otherwise, there is a good chance that the tap will snap in the hole, leaving you with another problem.......

 

That makes sense of it. Thanks

 

P

[Big Steve]

Make sure you get HSS, (high speed steel) expensive but much better than the cheap alternatives which tend to be very brittle. They're a swine to get out when you break one.

 

here's a link to an engineers supplies I use. http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos...__Dies_155.html

[pwl]

Make sure you get HSS, (high speed steel) expensive but much better than the cheap alternatives which tend to be very brittle. They're a swine to get out when you break one.

 

here's a link to an engineers supplies I use. http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos...__Dies_155.html

 

Thanks for the link but it brings up another novice question - Byeckerslike explained the 1, 2, 3 nomenclature but the link site lists the taps as taper, second and plug. Am I correct in assuming that taper = 1, second = 2 and plug = 3?

 

P

[Timleech]

Thanks for the link but it brings up another novice question - Byeckerslike explained the 1, 2, 3 nomenclature but the link site lists the taps as taper, second and plug. Am I correct in assuming that taper = 1, second = 2 and plug = 3?

 

P

 

Yes you are, but be warned that the American notation of Taper=1, plug=2, bottoming = 3 is starting to creep in. Just to confuse you .

What thickness are you tapping? For average cabin steel of 3 or 4 mm, a second tap may be all you need (if you don't fancy the Spiral Point route that I suggested). Get hold of some proper lubricant. Trefolex is widely available & easy to use, it's a paste into which you just dip the end of the tap. There are plenty of others, some in liquid or aerosol form.

 

Tim

[pwl]

Yes you are, but be warned that the American notation of Taper=1, plug=2, bottoming = 3 is starting to creep in. Just to confuse you .

What thickness are you tapping? For average cabin steel of 3 or 4 mm, a second tap may be all you need (if you don't fancy the Spiral Point route that I suggested). Get hold of some proper lubricant. Trefolex is widely available & easy to use, it's a paste into which you just dip the end of the tap. There are plenty of others, some in liquid or aerosol form.

 

Tim

 

4mm I think. First tasks are to remove a rivited vent and replace it with solar and second is to add racks for the pole / boathook / plank but I dont want to use pop rivets. I can see several jobs over the next few years that will need me to tap the upper hull so I figure buy a good comprehensive set of kit now because it will get used. Our 'new' boat is old (20 ish) and very basic inside and out (hence not even a rack for the pole etc. 10 berth ex-hire floating tent design). We slowly want to add decent tunnel lights a decent horn etc. etc. Thanks for the tip on lubricant. Last time I used a tap we just used 3 in 1 oil.

 

P

[Sir Nibble]

4mm I think. First tasks are to remove a rivited vent and replace it with solar and second is to add racks for the pole / boathook / plank but I dont want to use pop rivets. I can see several jobs over the next few years that will need me to tap the upper hull so I figure buy a good comprehensive set of kit now because it will get used. Our 'new' boat is old (20 ish) and very basic inside and out (hence not even a rack for the pole etc. 10 berth ex-hire floating tent design). We slowly want to add decent tunnel lights a decent horn etc. etc. Thanks for the tip on lubricant. Last time I used a tap we just used 3 in 1 oil.

 

P

4mm I think. First tasks are to remove a rivited vent and replace it with solar

3.3mm drill. 4.2 for 5mm thread and 5 for 6mm, (75%) thread depth.

second is to add racks for the pole / boathook / plank

I made a wooden cradle for mine and it stands on small rubber feet, (You know the sort of thing, little bags, 99p for 2), it has never moved from wherever I choose to put it.

Last time I used a tap we just used 3 in 1 oil.

Fair enough, one of the best lubricants for cutting aluminium is soap!

[pwl]

I made a wooden cradle for mine and it stands on small rubber feet, (You know the sort of thing, little bags, 99p for 2), it has never moved from wherever I choose to put it.

 

Wish I knew that worked befrore SWMBO and I forked out for brass ones

 

P

[RLWP]

Fair enough, one of the best lubricants for cutting aluminium is soap!

 

And for steel I usually use lard! It packs well into the flutes and melts as you use it.

 

Richard

[Timleech]

And for steel I usually use lard! It packs well into the flutes and melts as you use it.

 

Richard

 

Bacon grease is alleged to be better

 

Tim

[Sir Nibble]

Yea, but who wants to cruise down the cut smelling like a bacon sarnie!

[Timleech]

Yea, but who wants to cruise down the cut smelling like a bacon sarnie!

 

 

That's something which really gets to me if I'm a bit peckish.

A boat going by with bacon on the go, suddenly I'm not just peckish, I need a bacon butty.

 

Tim

[RLWP]

That's something which really gets to me if I'm a bit peckish.

A boat going by with bacon on the go, suddenly I'm not just peckish, I need a bacon butty.

 

Tim

 

Ahhh, bright crisp morning, mist coming off the cut, sun rising, cup of tea and a bacon and egg sarny at the helm. Now that's boating..

 

Richard

[pwl]

That's something which really gets to me if I'm a bit peckish.

A boat going by with bacon on the go, suddenly I'm not just peckish, I need a bacon butty.

 

Tim

 

A 70 foot bacon sandwich would take some eating!

 

P

[engineer]

I am looking to buy a set of taps to thread holes in the NB upper hull for fitments. Seems I cant buys taps without dies these days. Some descritions refer to 'Metric Course' and 'Metric Fine' others just to Metric. I dont intend to produce my own bolts so need the taps that will work with standard commercial bolts [M3 M4 M5 etc]but cant fine a definition of the difference between course and fine and which is the most common commercial bolt type. Can anyone help?

 

P

Hi HSS (high speed steel) are best most jobs will only require a second lead tap, see this page for taps and dies information

 

http://www.engineering-supplies.com/info/1...al-information/

They also supply taps in taper, seconds, bottom or sets of all 3

I hope this helps

[alan_fincher]

I hope this helps

Possibly

 

But as it is a year and a half since the original poster wanted these, I'm guessing they may be sorted by now.

Edited December 12, 2009 by alan_fincher