Webastos, Ebberwhatsits etc

[dave_2A_]

Having read conflicting stories about these, I realise that some love em and some hate em. How practical are they as a retrofit - are there any rules regarding exhaust positioning etc?

[steelaway]

Hi There

 

I have an Eberspacher and have made it very reliable now but there are tricks to it.

The exhaust is simple small diameter flexible pipe to a skin fitting to the out side of the boat

Diesel heaters are an easy retrofit and so cheap now on Ebay, the most popular the 4-5 Kw - 2-3 rads

You haven't said whether you have the central heating system installed, this take much longer to install

 

Alex

[dave_2A_]

This is for a boat with no heating at all from new. There's a Paloma for hot water, but thats it. I know about the skin fittimg, but wondered if there were any regs regarding distance from windows etc. Which model do you have?

[NB Willawaw]

It is practical to install a diesel heating system as a retrofit.

 

A friend of mine had a new Webasto water system fitted on his newish but existing boat.

He had it done at Cowroast and they also added two rads, a new calorifier with an etxra coil and a heated towel rail.

 

The latter is a brilliant idea (sadly not mine) and I only wished I had done this on my own boat.

[steelaway]

This is for a boat with no heating at all from new. There's a Paloma for hot water, but thats it. I know about the skin fittimg, but wondered if there were any regs regarding distance from windows etc. Which model do you have?

 

 

Hi There

Mine is an old model but I like it because it is all accessable and I like tinckering.

The modern version is D5W sc --- http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EBERSPACHER-HYDRONIC...1QQcmdZViewItem

Webasto also make a similiar model.

It is best fitted in the engine bay and the diesel feed tee'd of the diesel filter. In the engine bay the exhaust should be meters a way from any windows.

To install central heating pick the best side to run straight pipe work (without crossing the boat)

Run two 22mm (one feed and one return) plastic pipes down the length to furthest rad position. Mount the radiators on the wall and tee into the 22mm (one feed and one return) with 15mm to rads. At the last rad reduce 22mm to 15mm and run through the rad to return.

You can also tee of the 22mm at the calorifier to a second coil in the calorifier for hot water, although I never use it.

You will also need a small expantion tank tee'd into the system - mounted higher than the entire system, to avoid airlocks.

You will need to add anti freeze to the central heating water.

Good luck with your project

 

Alex

[Mick_B]

Snip>>

You can also tee of the 22mm at the calorifier to a second coil in the calorifier for hot water, although I never use it.

snip>>

 

Alex

 

Pheweeeeee

[Mick_B]

triple posting????

Edited March 20, 2008 by Shinner

[BlueStringPudding]

Having read conflicting stories about these, I realise that some love em and some hate em.

 

Ours makes us want to cry. After two services in the space of 6 months, it's stopped working again.

[blackrose]

I have an erberwhatsit but as a bit of non-partisan advice if you're going for one or the other choose a webasto. They're both prone to problems but webastos are much more user serviceable. The other thing is not to make the mistake of buying a model that's too big for the number of rads & the calorifier that you have. When the boiler senses that the rads and water are hot it will turn itself down to a lower setting. With a boiler that's too big for the system this may happen too soon and can coke up the boiler. The other thing to remember is that if you're not on shore power with a multi-stage battery charger then you need to make sure your batteries and well charged before starting the heater.

 

Personally I think these heaters are useful as an auxillary if you've already got a solid fuel (or gravity fed diesel) stove, but as a liveaboard I wouldn't want one as my only form of heating.

Edited March 20, 2008 by blackrose

[steelaway]

Ours makes us want to cry. After two services in the space of 6 months, it's stopped working again.

 

 

Hi there

 

Mine has run all this winter with only one hickup.

I even bought a spare on Fleabay (£225) as I had heard so many tales of horror.

Mine is the old D5W and it is so simple to repair.

Major problems is the power(voltage drop - bigger cable) needed at startup and a non restricted flow of air through it.

Even if you have to remove the air intake filter (gets blocked) and the exhaust silencer (some are to small)

 

Alex

[Peter R]

Having read conflicting stories about these, I realise that some love em and some hate em. How practical are they as a retrofit - are there any rules regarding exhaust positioning etc?

 

I retrofitted my current boat along these lines without any major problems. I spoke to quite a few people about the different makes, and whilst there was a mixture of positive and negative experiences with all of them Webasto seemed to have more good than bad, so that is what I bought (Thermotop 'E' I think, 4kw).

 

The only 'constraints' that spring to mind from my system :-

 

The exhaust outlet has to be within 1metre of the 'boiler', shouldn't be situated where it would be close to the bank when moored (heat from the exhaust could set fire to bankside grass if dry!), and should be far enough above the water not to let water in!

 

The header tank needs to be higher than the next highest point in the system (as most boats sit slightly bow-up this would usually be the rad nearest the front.

 

The installation took a while, but was otherwise pretty straightforward. One slight change to the plumbing mentioned above is that I used a complete 22mm loop, with all the rads and calorifier teed off, and fitted thermostatic valves to the rads, which is quite useful as I only need to use the front two rads if the stove isn't lit.

[dave_2A_]

Thanks for the info - all very useful. Is a calorifier neccessary? Or is that only if you intend to use it for hot water supply as well? I would, in some ways, like a wood burner, but that would mean sacrificing a berth (at least while the stove is hot) as the convertable double in the saloon would be very close to the stove when pulled out into a bed. Mind you. I could lose a single in the middle cabin and put in a wood burner and side hatches. Still kicking ideas around at the moment.

[blackrose]

I retrofitted my current boat along these lines without any major problems. I spoke to quite a few people about the different makes, and whilst there was a mixture of positive and negative experiences with all of them Webasto seemed to have more good than bad, so that is what I bought (Thermotop 'E' I think, 4kw).

 

The only 'constraints' that spring to mind from my system :-

 

The exhaust outlet has to be within 1metre of the 'boiler', shouldn't be situated where it would be close to the bank when moored (heat from the exhaust could set fire to bankside grass if dry!), and should be far enough above the water not to let water in!

 

The header tank needs to be higher than the next highest point in the system (as most boats sit slightly bow-up this would usually be the rad nearest the front.

 

The installation took a while, but was otherwise pretty straightforward. One slight change to the plumbing mentioned above is that I used a complete 22mm loop, with all the rads and calorifier teed off, and fitted thermostatic valves to the rads, which is quite useful as I only need to use the front two rads if the stove isn't lit.

 

Which boiler model did you fit? When I spoke to the Erber guys at one of the boatshows they told me that my 22mm loop should have been reduced to 15mm at the far end of the loop for a few inches before going back to 22mm. They said that this was to make sure that there was a restriction in the loop to force more water into the rads rather than just letting it go around the loop.

[chris w]

It's best not to have a loop at all. Just a flow and return 22mm, with the "loop" being completed by the last rad. That way the water will definitely flow through the rads. "T-offs" to the rads, from the 22mm flow and return pipes, being made in 15mm.

 

Chris

[steelaway]

Thanks for the info - all very useful. Is a calorifier neccessary? Or is that only if you intend to use it for hot water supply as well? I would, in some ways, like a wood burner, but that would mean sacrificing a berth (at least while the stove is hot) as the convertable double in the saloon would be very close to the stove when pulled out into a bed. Mind you. I could lose a single in the middle cabin and put in a wood burner and side hatches. Still kicking ideas around at the moment.

 

 

Hi There

 

Is there any room for an horizontal calorifier on top of the swim?

But as I said I never use the boiler for hot water - only the main engine whilst it charges the battery's

 

Alex

[Badger]

Ours makes us want to cry. After two services in the space of 6 months, it's stopped working again.

As a matter of interest,what system do you have?.I have a Webasto Thermo Top C,after some problems,and after making changes to the plumbing and fuel lines it is now orking fine.I originaly had an Eberspacher but that proved to be extremely unreliable and costly to service,and was eventually scrapped.

 

Badger

[Triss48]

I have just gone through three years of heating hell. I bought a boat with an Aldi gas boiler feeding three radiators via a 22mm loop. No connection to calorifier (hot water by instantaneous gas heater)

 

Stage one was new twin coil calorifier and Eberspacher D5W (Aldi and water heater abandoned to get as much gas out of the boat as possible), and larger radiator in the saloon. Early mod was to add a restriction at the far end of the 22m loop where flow became return to make sure the last radiator heated up.

 

This version lasted 18 months. The Eberspacher despite monthly glow plug cleaning was always failing, some time expensively. I then just did straight swap with a Webasto Thermotop C. All was well for a while before I started getting failures. Like others it was running for 45 - 60 minutes then cutting out and also failing to start on the timer.

 

I spoke to BK Marine at the Birmingham Show, subsequently delivering the Webasto to them for checking. The result was the replacement of the circuit board under warranty as it was set for too high a voltage - marine versions should have a 9V lower limit, the replacement of the glow pin with the new ceramic version and a general service. The ceramic pin draws less than half the current of the older version so is great for use on battery power.

 

Other lessons learned:

 

Plumb the calorifier across the flow and return just like a radiator (My original install had the calorifier in the flow only. Too much risk of building up back pressure in the boiler restricting flow and causing early shut down).

 

Have some form of restriction in the 22m loop past the last radiator. I use a standard ball valve shut down about 50%. If you have thermostatic valves, don't plumb the last radiator as part of the flow and return, or there will be no flow when desired temperature is reached.

 

The latest Webasto thinking is that header tank should have two connections to the return, so that ll the water flows through it giving and easy path for air to bleed off. The two pipes are bridged by a valve controlled pipe that allows water to flow directly rather than through the tank. Imagine an H formed of 22m pipe with the header tank connected across the top of the H, the valve in the horizontal bar and the return pipe connected to one foot and the boiler inlet to the other.

 

Other variations:

 

To provide summer hot water, I have change over valves that direct the flow and return to a 1m long 22m pipe in the bottom of the wardrobe rather than the radiator circuit. This leaves only the calorifier in the circuit, so hot water and no unwanted heat. 20 - 30 minutes of running gives a full calorifier of hot water.

 

Good luck

Edited March 24, 2008 by Triss48

[chris w]

Have some form of restriction in the 22m loop past the last radiator. I use a standard ball valve shut down about 50%. If you have thermostatic valves, don't plumb the last radiator as part of the flow and return, or there will be no flow when desired temperature is reached.

 

Why have a loop at all beyond the last radiator - it makes no sense? To provide a safety path (in case all the themostatic radiator valves [TRVs] shut at the same time) plumb a towel rail across the flow and return with no TRV.

 

Chris

[Triss48]

Why have a loop at all beyond the last radiator - it makes no sense? To provide a safety path (in case all the themostatic radiator valves [TRVs] shut at the same time) plumb a towel rail across the flow and return with no TRV.

 

Chris

 

Never thought of it to be honest. The loop was already in place as was a radiator in the bathroom. Installing from scratch, I agree that yours is the neater solution. I feel a trip to a plumbers merchant for a towel rail coming on. The bathroom radiator could do with replacement and a couple of 22m end stops can't be all that expensive. Plus one less valve to fiddle with.

 

Triss