LED Bulbs

[BlueStringPudding]

We have two 18-led festoon bulbs with built-in voltage regulators (up to 16v) in our bedside lamp, which seem to have been working fine until one started flickering yesterday. I took the lamp cover off to find that one bulb has blown 12 of it's 18 leds and four of the remaining ones are now flashing, presumably about to blow too.

The other bulb has blown one led, but the other 17 seem to be working fine.

 

They were bought from Ultraleds only a few months ago (couldn't find my original post about buying them, hence starting this one!) and they're not cheap, so I'm rather disappointed. The lamp is never on when the batteries are charging, so I'm especially miffed that it's died so quickly. I've e-mailed Ultraleds and am waiting for their reply.

 

I was wondering whether anyone else has had similar problems with led bulbs?

[NB Alnwick]

I was wondering whether anyone else has had similar problems with led bulbs?

 

We are all 24v so have very few LED bulbs nevertheless we have learned two important lessons.

 

First, the LED bulb units need to be tolerant to voltage variations. This is because the voltage on a narrowboat will vary much more than in a domestic situation. For example when running on cabin batteries the voltage can be down to 23v but with the engine running and the alternator charging batteries that are near their maximum it will be as high as 28v. We have had situations where several of the little LEDs failed during a high voltage situation.

 

Second, the units need some protection against accidental reverse polarity - we have had LED units fail because we put them in the wrong way round!

 

The situation may be better at 12v but we have decided not to buy more LEDs until more reliable 24v heavy duty units come on to the market.

 

Edited to add what I intended to say in the first place. We often isolate the batteries when we leave the boat but leave a few lights switched on - usually the LED units. Obviously these go out when we turn off the battery switch. Recently, we came back aboard and turned that battery switch on expecting the lights to come on as usual - on this occasion two out of three of the LED units failed instantly in the way BSP has described above - voltage surge perhaps?

Edited March 12, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[BlueStringPudding]

We are all 24v so have very few LED bulbs nevertheless we have learned two important lessons.

 

First, the LED bulb units need to be tolerant to voltage variations. This is because the voltage on a narrowboat will vary much more than in a domestic situation. For example when running on cabin batteries the voltage can be down to 23v but with the engine running and the alternator charging batteries that are near their maximum it will be as high as 28v. We have had situations where several of the little LEDs failed during a high voltage situation.

 

Second, the units need some protection against accidental reverse polarity - we have had LED units fail because we put them in the wrong way round!

 

The situation may be better at 12v but we have decided not to buy more LEDs until more reliable 24v heavy duty units come on to the market.

 

The bulbs I bought are reversible so can go in any way round and are supoosed to be tolerant between 10v and 16v. And the voltage varies between 13v and 11v but never higher. Hence being quite narked about this. They're like these but in white.

[chris w]

The voltage regulator ones will be safe over their stipulated voltage as they contain a miniature SMT (surface-mount technology) 12v regulator (type 7812). They also incorporate a device known as a "bridge rectifier" which makes them polarity insensitive, so they can be plugged in either way round.

 

I too bought some LED lamps from Ultraleds and one had a few LEDs not working on delivery. I sent it back and they swapped it. The replacement also had some duff LEDs on delivery. They asked me to send it back again but I refused on the grounds it was their problem and I had already spent a whole £1 sending the last one back and didn't want to spend anymore on wasted postage and wasted time. So they told me to keep the duff one and they sent another replacement which they said they would test first, and indeed it did work.

 

I took the duff one to pieces and discovered it was a bad solder joint on the circuit board. It now works fine.

 

If you buy LED lamps that contain voltage regulators, ensure they are also polarity insensitive. The LEDs will never blow because they are plugged in backwards, they just won't light up, but the 12v regulator may be damaged, then the whole lamp won't work.

 

If you have a 24v system, it's probably cheaper to buy pairs of 12v LED lamps and wire them in series across the 24v supply to two locations in the ceiling or wherever. Since a 24v regulator is not a standard SMT device, I'm pretty sure that's what they're doing inside the 24v LED lamp anyway.

 

Chris

Edited March 12, 2008 by chris w

[NB Alnwick]

That's very useful info Chris - and most encouraging. I shall order some more LED units from www.ultraleds.co.uk - especially since they now list a unit that fits our most frequently used reading lamps.

Edited March 12, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[smileypete]

Wonder how efficient those 15v-24v laptop car adapters are at running small loads.

 

Maybe they could be used to provide a stable 24v to pairs of 12v LED lights.

 

Might even be possible to do some rudimentary dimming by turning the output voltage down.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Callunna]

If you've bought a whole bunch of LED bulbs and don't want the expense of replacing them with the types which have individual regulators, couldn't you simply fit a regulator at the start of the lighting circuit?

[NB Alnwick]

If you've bought a whole bunch of LED bulbs and don't want the expense of replacing them with the types which have individual regulators, couldn't you simply fit a regulator at the start of the lighting circuit?

 

We are still experimenting with LEDs - our early experiences were that the traditional filament bulbs were easier to read by but the technology is changing fast.

[Keeping Up]

I don't think I can recall anybody actually having a GOOD word to say for them, except that they use less power

[chris w]

If you've bought a whole bunch of LED bulbs and don't want the expense of replacing them with the types which have individual regulators, couldn't you simply fit a regulator at the start of the lighting circuit?

 

Yes - I have done that for some small blue LED lamps that I installed to illuminate the stairs into the boat.

 

Chris

Edited March 12, 2008 by chris w

[valrene9600]

The LEDs i bought are 8-30v dc in cool white. Each one comes with a Transient suppressor & re- setable fuse both of which can be fitted at the fuse boxon each lighting circuit, at the switch of each light or group of lights, or at each bulb.

They are cool white and i find them brighter than the 10w halogen they re-placed and find them fine for reading via my wall mounted reading lamp.

Got them from Bedazzled which is canalside at Whilton bottom lock.

[Alistair]

I don't think I can recall anybody actually having a GOOD word to say for them, except that they use less power

 

Well there's one lighting the keyboard where I'm typing this (gooseneck, USB), some spotlights illuminating half the saloon, and some more doing the gunwale-downlighting-thing as is fashionable these days.

 

Total 2+3*2+4*1=12W total, for all I need. What's not to like?

[elessina]

We purchased two 8v to 30v LED G4 replacements about 5 months ago, and have sine purchased a further 10. We did have some initial problems with the 1st batch, and Ultraleds replaced them. So far no more problems.

 

We had a cool white and a warm white initially, but ordered 10 x cool whites. Cool whites are white, warm are yellow and not quite so bright.

 

We have seen 30v on charge, and had no problems with the them at this voltage. They consume around 1w.

 

Ultalights link here

Ian

Elessina

[BlueStringPudding]

I have just had a reply from Ultraleds. These bulbs, despite being £8 a piece, have just a 3 month guarantee and as I bought them just over 3 months ago they won't replace them.

 

I'm very cross as I paid for the more expensive bulb to protect against variations in voltage so I would have to replace them so quickly. I won't be buying from them again.

 

My advice is don't follow that think above!

Edited March 13, 2008 by BlueStringPudding

[NB Alnwick]

I have just had a reply from Ultraleds. These bulbs, despite being £8 a piece, have just a 3 month guarantee and as I bought them just over 3 months ago they won't replace them.

 

I'm very cross as I paid for the more expensive bulb to protect against variations in voltage so I would have to replace them so quickly. I won't be buying from them again.

 

My advice is don't follow that think above!

 

Thank you for the warning - I was just about to place an order!

 

Given the readership of this forum, I suspect that Ultraleds have just made an unsound PR decision.

[chris w]

I have just had a reply from Ultraleds. These bulbs, despite being £8 a piece, have just a 3 month guarantee and as I bought them just over 3 months ago they won't replace them.

 

I'm very cross as I paid for the more expensive bulb to protect against variations in voltage so I would have to replace them so quickly. I won't be buying from them again.

 

My advice is don't follow that think above!

 

 

Go back to them......they are contravening European Consumer law.

 

In accordance with Directive 1999/44 of May 25th 1999, and without prejudice to more favourable national laws, the seller is liable for any lack of conformity of the product for a period of 2 years from its delivery.

 

Ergo, they cannot give you just a 3 month warranty. Go back and threaten to make this public on an international Forum. Ooops we just did!!!!!!!

 

Chris

[BlueStringPudding]

I'd e-mailed them back again and got this reply now:

 

"Lisa we no longer sell this product we don’t have to offer any warranty at all - its a consumable item

 

 

Robert Bennett

 

Managing Director"

 

Charming.

 

I've also just looked up their website to find the claim that their bulbs are "Longer Lasting". I have e-mailed him back to ask what they are longer lasting than (because it certainly isn't a conventional bulb).

 

Answers on a postcard...

Edited March 13, 2008 by BlueStringPudding

[Gary Peacock]

I did a lot of research into LED lighting about 5 years back and came to the conclusion without a regulated supply and lots of lights it wasn't really effective.

 

Five years on prices have now reduced light output as increased and many have a regulator built in but I still get the feeling that these bulb replacements are still not quite there yet.

 

We now use quite a lot of LED fittings (Rather than converted halogen) and have found these very reliable but price wise they still cost a bit more a 9 LED 0.06 Amps@12v recessed down light equivalent to the common halogen one is about £13.00 and a 21 LED 0.14 0.14 Amps@12v" Dome surface fitting light with night dimming facility is about £20.00

 

 

 

 

 

These have built in regulators and are sourced from the bus/coach industry.

 

The dome light is waterproofed to IP67 so makes a good deck light.

[BlueStringPudding]

I did a lot of research into LED lighting about 5 years back and came to the conclusion without a regulated supply and lots of lights it wasn't really effective.

 

Five years on prices have now reduced light output as increased and many have a regulator built in but I still get the feeling that these bulb replacements are still not quite there yet.

 

We now use quite a lot of LED fittings (Rather than converted halogen) and have found these very reliable but price wise they still cost a bit more a 9 LED 0.06 Amps@12v recessed down light equivalent to the common halogen one is about £13.00 and a 21 LED 0.14 0.14 Amps@12v" Dome surface fitting light with night dimming facility is about £20.00

 

 

 

 

 

These have built in regulators and are sourced from the bus/coach industry.

 

The dome light is waterproofed to IP67 so makes a good deck light.

 

Nice - but very different to what we need. Ours were to replace conventional 12v bulbs in light fittings that are already in place. To replace all the fittings as well as the bulbs would be a lengthy and expensive business.

 

I'm just very disappointed in Ultraleds and think their customer service is sh*t as is their product.

[Alastair]

I was wondering whether anyone else has had similar problems with led bulbs?

someone in the DBA tried the bulbs from ultraleds, they burnt out very quickly. they complained and were told that the bulbs would only last if connected to a 12V supply, and the higher voltage of the car battery was too much for them.

[chris w]

I also emailed the MD of Ultraleds to ask about reliability and warranty and he responded by saying that "95% of the products have a one-year warranty which we can remove if you wish to complain"!!!!!

 

This is despite their website clearly stating:

 

* "90 days 'standard' warranty on the majority of our products

* 1-2 year warranty on selected products (only where mentioned in description)

 

I agree with Bluestring. Not good customer service. He needs to take a course on interpersonal skills. I certainly won't buy from them again.

 

Chris

[BlueStringPudding]

I'm tempted to send them a link to this thread, to see what crappy customer service gets you. Especially as I'd already told him that their company had come recommended to me by other boaters, you'd think he'd twig that I would make a point of unrecommending him to other boaters!

[chris w]

I'm tempted to send them a link to this thread, to see what crappy customer service gets you.

 

Wel if you don't, I will.

 

Chris

[Tomska]

I did a lot of research into LED lighting about 5 years back and came to the conclusion without a regulated supply and lots of lights it wasn't really effective.

 

Five years on prices have now reduced light output as increased and many have a regulator built in but I still get the feeling that these bulb replacements are still not quite there yet.

 

We now use quite a lot of LED fittings (Rather than converted halogen) and have found these very reliable but price wise they still cost a bit more a 9 LED 0.06 Amps@12v recessed down light equivalent to the common halogen one is about £13.00 and a 21 LED 0.14 0.14 Amps@12v" Dome surface fitting light with night dimming facility is about £20.00

 

 

 

 

 

These have built in regulators and are sourced from the bus/coach industry.

 

The dome light is waterproofed to IP67 so makes a good deck light.

 

 

 

Hi Gary,

 

That 9 LED spot looks great. Could you tell me where you get them from?

 

Thanks,

 

T.

[BlueStringPudding]

Hi Gary,

 

That 9 LED spot looks great. Could you tell me where you get them from?

 

Thanks,

 

T.

 

Ah, Gary's shameless plug worked!

 

Actually I quite like the 21 LED one! I'm in the market for a new supplier after all...

Edited March 13, 2008 by BlueStringPudding