Fire Extinguishers

[1066]

Lidl are selling fire extinguishers suitable for boats on Thursday 7th February -

 

http://www.lidl.co.uk/uk/home.nsf/pages/c....xtinguisher.ar7

[ChrisPy]

they are no good for BSS unless they carry one of the approved markings. The CE mark is not enough.

[1066]

they are no good for BSS unless they carry one of the approved markings. The CE mark is not enough.

 

They are rated to 5A/34BC ...... this is in line with the BSS requirement of 5A/34B .... or didn't you read it properly.

Edited February 3, 2008 by 1066

[ChrisPy]

They are rated to 5A/34BC ...... this is in line with the BSS requirement of 5A/34B .... or didn't you read it properly.

There have been several threads on this subject. From BSS Guide:

 

6.1.2/R REQUIREMENT

Poor quality of design or manufacture could mean you do not have

a working extinguisher when you most need it. The navigation

authorities need to be assured of an extinguisher’s performance

and seek independent verification.

Is the performance of all the portable fire extinguishers

properly certificated?

Check all portable fire extinguishers, identified as being compliant at

6.1.1, for evidence of accredited third-party certification.

Portable fire extinguishers must be marked with at least one of the

following certification marks:

 

.................

...............

................

Notes – ‘CE’ marking alone on any extinguisher does not indicate

certification of performance to EN 3. Further information is available on

www.boatsafetyscheme.com or by post or email from the BSS Office.

Firemaster 1000PR B/C [brass/Chrome] models marked without the

‘Kitemark’ are acceptable.

 

If you read the original version of the guide, the acceptable markings are listed.

[1066]

What are you talking about?

 

Minimum Bss requirement is 5A/34B. The B means it will deal with liquids - e.g. petrol - oil - fat - paints.

 

These extinguishers are rated at 5A/34B C. The C means that it will also deal with flammable gases - e.g. Propane - butane.

 

If you want to argue, fine, but at least get your facts right.

Edited February 3, 2008 by 1066

[chris w]

What are you talking about?

 

Minimum Bss requirement is 5A/34B. The B means it will deal with liquids - e.g. petrol - oil - fat - paints.

 

These extinguishers are rated at 5A/34B C. The C means that it will also deal with flammable gases - e.g. Propane - butane.

 

If you want to argue, fine, but at least get your facts right.

 

Chris Polley is absolutely correct and you're the one that's wrong! The fact that the fire extinguisher is claimed to be 5A/34B is necessary but not sufficient to pass BSS. It must ALSO be marked with one of the the approved markings stipulated by BSS (eg: British Standard kite mark) to prove that the range has been tested to 5A/34B. CE marking alone is also not enough.

 

Chris

[ChrisPy]

What are you talking about?

 

Minimum Bss requirement is 5A/34B. The B means it will deal with liquids - e.g. petrol - oil - fat - paints.

 

These extinguishers are rated at 5A/34B C. The C means that it will also deal with flammable gases - e.g. Propane - butane.

 

If you want to argue, fine, but at least get your facts right.

no comment

Edited February 3, 2008 by chris polley

[Speedwell]

It's quite a complicated tale. Hopefully this will be a link to the latest information

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/...de_chap6web.pdf

Arthur

[carlt]

From another thread:

 

That's the brand that was on offer last year an indeed last year carried the MED Ship's Wheel. However there have been, on occasion, offers from companies of branded extinguishers whereby some the branded models were independently certified and some other models sourced from another factory were not. Hence the advice to check before buying, advice that can apply to any supply source.

[NB Phoenix]

What are you talking about?

 

Minimum Bss requirement is 5A/34B. The B means it will deal with liquids - e.g. petrol - oil - fat - paints.

 

These extinguishers are rated at 5A/34B C. The C means that it will also deal with flammable gases - e.g. Propane - butane.

 

If you want to argue, fine, but at least get your facts right.

 

I find you comments towards Chris Polley as totally unnecessary.

 

He and Chris W are correct in what they say. 5A/34B is a coding to give an indication at to how efficient an extinguisher is under ideal conditions when used by a trained operative.

 

It does not show how well the extinguisher is made or even if it will operate at all when required. These details are shown by various British Standard marks (Kite Mark) and European marks (EN).

 

These marks are marks of assurance to the quality of manufacture of the equipment and as such they are equally required by the BSS as is the SIZE and CONTENTS of the extinguisher.

Edited February 3, 2008 by NB Phoenix

[carlt]

I find you comments towards Chris Poolley as totally unnecessary.

 

Quote from another forum:

 

Hi Gary .... welcome to the 'civilised' canal forum!

[NB Phoenix]

Quote from another forum:

 

Edit cause I'm thick.

Edited February 3, 2008 by NB Phoenix

[carlt]

Carl

 

Link not working?

Not a link (I don't think Jon would appreciate my linking to another forum) it's a post 1066 made on another forum when he was being rude and, dare I say it, a little uncivilised on this one.

 

I get a bit miffed when people go slagging this forum off, elsewhere, and then coming here and behaving in a manner they claim to disapprove of.

 

But, then again, it's nice that they retain that freedom, through "moderate" moderation.

 

Edited to say: Too late! I caught your post

Edited February 3, 2008 by carlt

[Machpoint005]

Reading through this thread, it's only a misunderstanding, and a few words that might have been better chosen. One or two thicker skins needed, I think.

 

But Chris Polley is absolutely right. It's not just what the extinguisher is supposed to do that matters, it's some assurance acceptable to the BSS inspector that it has been manufactured properly.

 

Ian

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Reading through this thread, it's only a misunderstanding, and a few words that might have been better chosen. One or two thicker skins needed, I think.

 

But Chris Polley is absolutely right. It's not just what the extinguisher is supposed to do that matters, it's some assurance acceptable to the BSS inspector that it has been manufactured properly.

 

Ian

 

...it might also matter to the poor person relying on it to fire and last whatever time it is supposed to But I agree and would cut 1066 some slack. he wouldn't be the first to not know that the navigation authorities seek independently tested portable fire extinguishers only.

 

I'll try to pop by Lidl's on Thursday or Friday to see if the units are compliant. The last lot were, but these look different.

 

Rob@BSSOffice

[Justyn]

Lidl are selling fire extinguishers suitable for boats on Thursday 7th February -

 

http://www.lidl.co.uk/uk/home.nsf/pages/c....xtinguisher.ar7

 

Just to add fuel to the fire...!

 

They are also selling fire blankets that may or may not be up to the correct standards.

 

Let the battle commence

[carlt]

Just to add fuel to the fire...!

 

They are also selling fire blankets that may or may not be up to the correct standards.

 

Let the battle commence

I'll be grabbing some anyway, for my lifeboat.

 

As that illustrious waterways journalist, Jon Simms once said about Lucy, I'll be "cocking a snook at the Boat Safety Scheme", whatever the hell that means.

[Justyn]

Also gas detectors on sale for 8.99

 

Personally I'll need 2 fire extinguishers and a blanket in order to get a BSS so I'm hoping these will do the job. Currently I've taken the fire extinguisher and blanket from my fire juggling kit to keep my mind at ease whilst renovating, but that's not a long term proposition as I also need them to satisfy insurance company for fire performances. If the gas detector is marked with standards I'll probably pick up one of those too. I have a CO detector, but nothing to indicate a propane leak.

 

I could be sorted for £28 on this front which would be awesome as I'd budgeted £50 for extinguishers and blanket from chandlers and was still searching for a gas detector.

[smileypete]

But Chris Polley is absolutely right. It's not just what the extinguisher is supposed to do that matters, it's some assurance acceptable to the BSS inspector that it has been manufactured properly.

...it might also matter to the poor person relying on it to fire and last whatever time it is supposed to

 

Do you have any evidence that non certified fire extinguishers are any less reliable than certified ones?

 

My understanding is that the BSS acted on the opinion of a fire industry trade body, whose members include certifying organisations.

 

If non certified extinguishers were any less reliable that certified ones, why would they be allowed to be on sale throughout Europe?

 

cheers,

Pete.

[ChrisPy]

But I agree and would cut 1066 some slack. he wouldn't be the first to not know that the navigation authorities seek independently tested portable fire extinguishers only.

............. but any responsible owner should read and understand the BSS Guide, Rob. As I have said before, it is well written and clear enough.

...it might also matter to the poor person relying on it to fire and last whatever time it is supposed to :unsure:Do you have any evidence that non certified fire extinguishers are any less reliable than certified ones?My understanding is that the BSS acted on the opinion of a fire industry trade body, whose members include certifying organisations.If non certified extinguishers were any less reliable that certified ones, why would they be allowed to be on sale throughout Europe?cheers,Pete.

I guess its all about self-certification.

It is probably the case that the manufacturer is allowed under the Code, European Directive, or whatever, to apply the CE mark if he follows the requirements. That does not give the same degree of assurance as having an outside body testing and certifying the product.

 

Whereas you as an individual may be comfortable having a fire extinguisher that has not been independently tested, the insurance companies, and your neighbours, might seek more assurance than that.

Edited February 5, 2008 by chris polley

[Machpoint005]

If you need to deploy a firefighting device in a hurry (and it's only ever in a hurry) you don't start looking at labels or ( I sincerely hope) reading instructions. You just pull the pin and squeeze the trigger.

 

Personally, I reckon the more confident you can be that the blerdy thing will actually work, the better: hence BW's standpoint (thanks Rob). Fire extinguishers are potentially life-saving: how much is your life worth?

 

Fire blankets, though, are another thing altogether. All they need to do is not burn!

 

Ian

Edited February 5, 2008 by Machpoint005

[smileypete]

My bicycle tyres aren't certified, what if they blow out and I fall under a bus?

 

Coke cans aren't certified, what if one bursts just before opening and I ruin an expensive suit?

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited February 5, 2008 by smileypete

[saltysplash]

My best advice is, if you have a fire prey that it happens while your up and about and get it in its early stages, If you wake up to one then just get the f**k out, by the time youve located the source you may already be overcome by smoke. You can replace the boat, not yourself or someone close to you.

 

Having said that i need 4 new extinguishers by july so would like to know if the lidl ones are suitable

[Yoda]

I often find them at auction as fire damaged stock.

[ChrisPy]

you can buy used ones as cheap as chips. soem of them even carry the kitemark.

i need 4 new extinguishers by july so would like to know if the lidl ones are suitable

the only way you'll know for sure is to look at the labelling and see if it carries one of the approved certification marks listed in section 6 of the BSS Guide. http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/site/2nded...alGuide_212.asp