24m Dutch barge transport NL to Uk advice needed

[MIss VIcky]

Hi there

If anyone has any advice on how to transport a 24 m steel Dutch barge from Netherlands to London, I would appreciate it. I am a UK citizen and I’m bringing it back to live. I have a mooring, but I’m wondering what is the best way to transport it. I have a quote by road. It is 42tonnes. The engine is not working at the moment. And it is in a state of repair which I plan to work on . So by water would be tricky. Also does anyone know if I need to pay tax as I have had it for quite some years and am a Uk tax payer , would it be exempt ? 

any advice (or links)  is greatly appreciated as HMRC is not offering any, only helpline that don’t give any solid advice 

[ditchcrawler]

I would contact the DBA DBA - The Barge Association - DBA (barges.org)

[hider]

What is the beam?

[MIss VIcky]

The width is 3.65m

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MIss VIcky said:

Also does anyone know if I need to pay tax as I have had it for quite some years and am a Uk tax payer , would it be exempt ? 

 

Unless the boat was in the UK (and you have a certificate from your mooring provider to prove it) at 11pm on 31st December 2020 you will have to pay VAT at 20% on both the boat value and the freight cost.

 

This is what is required to not pay VAT.

 

 

Edited August 13 by Alan de Enfield

[hider]

33 minutes ago, MIss VIcky said:

The width is 3.65m

Where are you going to put it?  You won't be doing much cruising in London then?

[MIss VIcky]

7 minutes ago, hider said:

Where are you going to put it?  You won't be doing much cruising in London then?

Probably not no, just staying on it and refurbishing inside 

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Unless the boat was in the UK (and you have a certificate from your mooring provider to prove it) at 11pm on 31st December 2020 you will have to pay VAT at 20% on both the boat value and the freight cost.

 

This is what is required to not pay VAT.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Unless the boat was in the UK (and you have a certificate from your mooring provider to prove it) at 11pm on 31st December 2020 you will have to pay VAT at 20% on both the boat value and the freight cost.

 

This is what is required to not pay VAT.

 

 

Can it not be exempt by ToR1 (transfer of residence relief)? Me returning to the Uk with my possessions basically 

[Momac]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

.............. a certificate from your mooring provider to prove it) at 11pm on 31st December 2020 ..........

 

Or other reasonable evidence like receipts for a marina mooring or other things  for the boat on dates each side of December 2020 .

Probably quite difficult to prove absolutely so reasonable evidence should be sufficient in the absence of a 'certificate'.

 

In any case it sounds like the OP's boat is effectively EU VAT paid from an import perspective. 

 

Also what is the OP to do about the Recreational Craft Regulations? This may be the greater challenge rather than the 20% VAT.

 

The rules since the UK left the EU are such that import of used boats from EU to the UK is unlikely to be financially attractive.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Momac said:

In any case it sounds like the OP's boat is effectively EU VAT paid from an import perspective. 

 

If it was in the EU on the 31st December 2020, then it would have been EU VAT paid BUT NOT UK VAT paid and therefore becomes subject to UK VAT on arrival.

 

 

1 hour ago, MIss VIcky said:

Can it not be exempt by ToR1 (transfer of residence relief)? Me returning to the Uk with my possessions basically 

 

 

You could try it, but generally personal belongings would include things like clothes and jewelry. General guidleines are "things that can be carried"

 

You may find that the truck will not be allowed thru customs until the VAT is paid. Once the boat is in you can then try and fight for a refund.

 

When I bought items in from the US I had to go to the DHL office and pay the duty and VAT before they would release them.

 

As ha been suggested the DBA should be able to give you avice.

Edited August 13 by Alan de Enfield

[MIss VIcky]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If it was in the EU on the 31st December 2020, then it would have been EU VAT paid BUT NOT UK VAT paid and therefore becomes subject to UK VAT on arrival.

 

 

 

 

You could try it, but generally personal belongings would include things like clothes and jewelry. General guidleines are "things that can be carried"

 

You may find that the truck will not be allowed thru customs until the VAT is paid. Once the boat is in you can then try and fight for a refund.

 

When I bought items in from the US I had to go to the DHL office and pay the duty and VAT before they would release them.

 

As ha been suggested the DBA should be able to give you avice.

Yes thanks that is my concern, ok will dig a bit more on it with the tax office as I don’t want a big bill to try and get back. 
regarding the truck, does anyone know if this can even be loaded on to a truck and driven in ? It’s 42tonnes and 78ft Long, it this possible ? 

[Momac]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If it was in the EU on the 31st December 2020, then it would have been EU VAT paid BUT NOT UK VAT paid and therefore becomes subject to UK VAT on arrival.

Yes. I agree.

 

 

[MIss VIcky]

1 hour ago, Momac said:

 

Or other reasonable evidence like receipts for a marina mooring or other things  for the boat on dates each side of December 2020 .

Probably quite difficult to prove absolutely so reasonable evidence should be sufficient in the absence of a 'certificate'.

 

In any case it sounds like the OP's boat is effectively EU VAT paid from an import perspective. 

 

Also what is the OP to do about the Recreational Craft Regulations? This may be the greater challenge rather than the 20% VAT.

 

The rules since the UK left the EU are such that import of used boats from EU to the UK is unlikely to be financially attractive.

 

 

Thanks what is the OP please ?

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, MIss VIcky said:

Yes thanks that is my concern, ok will dig a bit more on it with the tax office as I don’t want a big bill to try and get back. 
regarding the truck, does anyone know if this can even be loaded on to a truck and driven in ? It’s 42tonnes and 78ft Long, it this possible ? 

 

A quick googl says that the maximum TOTAL weight (Truck, Trailer and load) for UK roads is 44 tonnes.

I'd suggest that if your boat weight is correct then it will be considerably over 44 tonnes 'all up'

 

Obvioulsy 'exceptional loads' are allowed (hence the movement of huge turbines on 56 axle trucks) but I bet you'd have to pay a fortune for permission to close roads, have Police escorts etc and you'd not be popular going thru London.

 

I'd suggest you start looking for a plan B - getting a tug to tow it across and into the Thames and your mooring. (You still have to declare its arrival at the 1st UK port you pass.)

3 minutes ago, MIss VIcky said:

Thanks what is the OP please ?

 

Original Poster (you)

[Momac]

4 minutes ago, MIss VIcky said:

Thanks what is the OP please ?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, MIss VIcky said:

Thanks what is the OP please ?

 

 

What age is the barge ?

 

You might think it irellevant, but as Momac mentioned - if it is post 1998 you may have some 'issues'.

[MIss VIcky]

It’s around 1920

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, MIss VIcky said:

The width is 3.65m

 

 

My boat is 4 mts wide (but only 11mts long) which required Police approval of transport, an agreed route with driving times only allowed at certain hours (no rush hour etc) and allowance for driving on the 'wrong way' around roundabouts if the correct side would have meant hitting lamp posts etc.

The height was also a problem and I had to use a truck that could lower the boat to 4" above the road, to allow it to go under bridges.

 

I also required escort vehicles to direct / stop the traffic.

 

The boat weighed 11 tonnes, was 11 metres long , 4 metres wide and 4.6mts high

 

It cost over GBP £3000 to travel 200 miles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13 by Alan de Enfield

[MIss VIcky]

Thanks for sharing that info. I had a quote for around 6000 from NL to UK. Mine in 42 tones but empty as it got stripped down . So that is the weight . So maybe ok I don’t know . That quote is with 2 escorts 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MIss VIcky said:

Thanks for sharing that info. I had a quote for around 6000 from NL to UK. Mine in 42 tones but empty as it got stripped down . So that is the weight . So maybe ok I don’t know . That quote is with 2 escorts 

 

 

WELL - if you have had a quote then I'd suggest the freight company know the rules over weights, length and widths, so that should be OK. 

 

You have no problem with the Recreational Craft Regulations for a 1920 built boat - as it stands, but if you are going to do major work on it and it becomes your home you may find that you need a PCA (Post Construction Assessment) to make sure it is safe and built to the correct standards. This assessement is likely to cost in excess of £6000 + any corrective work needed. This is in some doubt but looks to be the way the UK is now applying the law.

 

I suggest you speak to :

 

1) The VAT office and clarify the situation

2) The BMF who are responsible for administering the Recretional Craft Regulations in the UK

 

It really is no longer viable to bring a boat into the UK from anywhere, unless it is "something special".

[Bargebuilder]

Just out of interest, if the engine were to be made reliable and the op sailed her across and moored her somewhere, would anyone even ask about RCD, PCA or vat? It would be a lot cheaper than taking her by road.

[Momac]

18 minutes ago, MIss VIcky said:

It’s around 1920

I guess it may prove to en important to have some evidence to prove the age of the boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

would anyone even ask about RCD, PCA or vat?

 

Yes.

 

I take it you have never brought a boat int a UK port/harbour from abroad.

 

You are required by Law to notify Customs & Excise on arrival and await their visit. Certain Harbours allow to to enter and go to the local customs office to register (Hull being one of them)

 

Arriving in Great Britain

You must tell HMRC if your pleasure craft is arriving in Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) from anywhere outside Great Britain including the Channel Islands, but excluding Northern Ireland.

Civil penalties can be issued for non-compliance with the customs reporting procedures.

 

Fly the yellow ‘Q’ flag when you enter UK waters

For journeys that you must report, you must fly the yellow ‘Q’ flag as soon as you enter UK waters (the 12-mile limit).

Make sure the flag can easily be seen and do not take it down until you’ve finished reporting to customs authorities.

If you do not comply you will be liable to a penalty.

 

If you are using an EU Skipper to deliver the boat :

 

 

Immigration requirements

Anyone on board who is not a British or Irish citizen must obtain a Border Force officer’s permission to enter the UK from a place other than Ireland, the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands.

If you’re the owner or person responsible for the pleasure craft, you must:

• make sure that anyone requiring immigration clearance obtains the necessary permission to enter (including yourselves if appropriate)

• have received notification of your permission to enter the UK before disembarking your vessel — this may be granted remotely (without physically seeing a Border Force officer)

 

 

This may be helpful :

 

 

Declaring a pleasure craft that you’re importing

Taxes and duties you may need to pay to import a vessel into the UK

Owners of vessels less than 12 metres long may have to pay Customs Duty when imported from outside the UK. Check what duties you have to pay.

Owners of vessels designed or adapted for recreation or pleasure use may have to pay VAT by completing form C384 (Vessels) and sending the form by email to the Pleasure Craft Unit of Expertise :

Pleasure Craft Unit of Expertise
Email: pleasurecraft.lcsouth@hmrc.gov.uk

Telephone:
03000 516 864

Edited August 13 by Alan de Enfield

[Momac]

There is more

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/sailing-a-pleasure-craft-that-is-arriving-in-the-uk

 

[MIss VIcky]

The boat was originally certified at 1925 but now they think it’s older, it’s had major work on the hull although I’m not sure it would be insured to be tugged over as the Dutch insurance will only over the 2nd (large canals) and not sea, due to the low sides of the boat. I don’t know if I can get insurance for being tugged and am curious if this is an option . Especially if cheaper of course. I’m trying to get solid answers from the tax office but as I said, it is difficult. So I emailed another sept today. My niece also works for border patrol so am asking her to check if that’s possible. 
I have 2 weeks to sort this out so that’s why I’m trying to get as much info as possible. And am truly grateful for everyone’s advice 

Edited August 13 by MIss VIcky
Spelling mistake

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, MIss VIcky said:

My niece also works for border patrol so am asking her to check if that’s possible. 

 

 

Declaring a pleasure craft that you’re importing

Taxes and duties you may need to pay to import a vessel into the UK

Owners of vessels less than 12 metres long may have to pay Customs Duty when imported from outside the UK. Check what duties you have to pay.

Owners of vessels designed or adapted for recreation or pleasure use may have to pay VAT by completing form C384 (Vessels) and sending the form by email to the Pleasure Craft Unit of Expertise :

Pleasure Craft Unit of Expertise
Email: pleasurecraft.lcsouth@hmrc.gov.uk

Telephone:
03000 516 864

Edited just now by Alan de Enfield

Edited August 13 by Alan de Enfield