BW maintenance

[fender]

Well, I haven't told them about it - have you?

 

Lock stoppages obviously take time to schedule and then boaters complain about that - they can't win.

 

Anyway, I get through clitheroes ok with the gate paddles - you have to be careful and it takes a bit longer but you talk as if it's some great hardship.

 

Come on people, we're talking industrial revolution technology here - if you want everything to work perfectly & smoothly I can't help thinking you've bought into the wrong hobby/lifestyle.

 

I'm very happy to get through Clitheroe's on gate paddles alone. Its not a hardship to me. But its your assertion that everything 'gets fixed' around here thats way out of order.

 

Have you seen Narrowboat World today? Its full of examples of delayed/deferred repairs, and of course it asks why the boater should be punished when thousands of others use the waterways for free (and I'm adding that BW's just spent 800,000 or something like that on a programme to encourage more to use the what - those crumbling waterways - "come along enjoy the canal - watch it crumble and dont grumble - you're welcome to watch the show for free...laugh as the poor boater slips on his/her head trying to operate a worn spindle")

 

This whole thing boils down again to the issue of how the waterways are managed. Of course BW is inept. It is a dinosaur created in the 20th century with a mindset that belongs to that century. Why should I pay my licence and see to it that two square foot panels are painted during the course of an entire day? I should expect better for my licence since I use the waterways. Another thing, I'm so busy I dont get to see things that others do and so it was someone who pointed out something I'd have never known about.

 

I strongly want to see the waterways mainatined properly. I'm sure a lot of people work very hard to earn/keep their narrowboats, and when they get on the waterways they are probably quite disapointed that their licences money seem to be squandered on so much wastage. Why is it the boater that always gets hit the hardest? What about all those people sitting on a lock beam eating their lunches and swiling beer? Arent they causing some wear on the lock gates? And people walking/cycling the towpath for example??????

Edited December 22, 2007 by fender

[blackrose]

I'm very happy to get through Clitheroe's on gate paddles alone. Its not a hardship to me. But its your assertion that everything 'gets fixed' around here thats way out of order.

Way out of order? You must lead a sheltered life!

 

Why should I pay my licence and see to it that two square foot panels are painted during the course of an entire day?.

You didn't see it - you said you spoke to someone else who said they saw it...

 

Why is it the boater that always gets hit the hardest? What about all those people sitting on a lock beam eating their lunches and swiling beer? Arent they causing some wear on the lock gates?

 

Has it always been like this? Perhaps it's because the majority of boaters are middle-aged, but it seems to me that boating is becoming the pastime of miserable people that just love to moan.

 

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all and a Happy New Year!

Edited December 22, 2007 by blackrose

[fender]

Way out of order? You must lead a sheltered life!

 

You didn't see it - you said you spoke to someone else who said they saw it...

 

 

Has it always been like this? Perhaps it's because the majority of boaters are middle-aged, but it seems to me that boating is becoming the pastime of miserable people that just love to moan.

 

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all and a Happy New Year!

 

I'll come and give u a wave its a short a bus ride away on the E2

[blackrose]

I'll come and give u a wave its a short a bus ride away on the E2

 

Anytime

[boater75]

I hope you've got the "materials handling" certificate, before lifting that briefcase!

I too have many certificates for various duties and courses i have attended but the best one and my proudest certificate is my 25yards swimming of Corporation street baths, see this one will actually save my life the rest are just bits of paper in nice glass frames that cover my employers arse in case i turn up at work and forget to engage my common sense mode. But when i was a kid i used to go fishing with my dad on the Chesterfield canal and we witnessed loads of lazy useless workers who did more damage to the canal and fish stocks and do more bad work than good and whilst they were paid poor wages ( they used to come gadging cigs from the fishermen) they have not really improved in my mind after all these years, yes the lock keepers on the Trent are some of the best BW workers you will find but as happens every year at this time they have been laid off, when there is boat loads of work that can be done in the off season around their patch.

[onthecut]

I'm very happy to get through Clitheroe's on gate paddles alone. Its not a hardship to me. But its your assertion that everything 'gets fixed' around here thats way out of order.

 

Have you seen Narrowboat World today? Its full of examples of delayed/deferred repairs, and of course it asks why the boater should be punished when thousands of others use the waterways for free (and I'm adding that BW's just spent 800,000 or something like that on a programme to encourage more to use the what - those crumbling waterways - "come along enjoy the canal - watch it crumble and dont grumble - you're welcome to watch the show for free...laugh as the poor boater slips on his/her head trying to operate a worn spindle")

 

This whole thing boils down again to the issue of how the waterways are managed. Of course BW is inept. It is a dinosaur created in the 20th century with a mindset that belongs to that century. Why should I pay my licence and see to it that two square foot panels are painted during the course of an entire day? I should expect better for my licence since I use the waterways. Another thing, I'm so busy I dont get to see things that others do and so it was someone who pointed out something I'd have never known about.

 

I strongly want to see the waterways mainatined properly. I'm sure a lot of people work very hard to earn/keep their narrowboats, and when they get on the waterways they are probably quite disapointed that their licences money seem to be squandered on so much wastage. Why is it the boater that always gets hit the hardest? What about all those people sitting on a lock beam eating their lunches and swiling beer? Arent they causing some wear on the lock gates? And people walking/cycling the towpath for example??????

 

I suspect there is an element of needing to be careful what you wish for here. Sure, BW is a 20th. century organisation running an 18th century phenomenon. Sure -- we can bring it bang up to date. How about, in keeping with modern times, a compulsory driving test, complete with a licence you can lose. No steerers under 17. Annual boat test for all boats, with emissions test, so no more of those smelly old engines. Compulsory transponder fitment for satellite monitoring of all boat movement -- so current annual licence with annual inflation plus 5% rise, plus, say £1 a mile, plus, say £50 a day overstaying on moorings charge. Clearly chunks of the system will need to be shut, immediately and permanently as they are under used and would be considerably more valuable as industrial estates, pathways etc. Oh -- and obviously -- you will need to have a good credit rating, proof of ID and address before you can even think of applying for a licence anyway. Etc. etc. etc.

 

Don't get me wrong -- I think there are clear gaps and defects in the way BW is run, but on balance, I prefer it that way to some super slick 'modern' management consultant led outfit, where boating would only be a very minor sub paragraph in the 'other users' table. I await the response that that's where we are anyway, but let's be fair -- even if awkward at times, we can still cruise the vast bulk of the officially open system without too much let or hindrance.

 

Mike.

[chris w]

Don't get me wrong -- I think there are clear gaps and defects in the way BW is run, but on balance, I prefer it that way to some super slick 'modern' management consultant led outfit, where boating would only be a very minor sub paragraph in the 'other users' table. I await the response that that's where we are anyway, but let's be fair -- even if awkward at times, we can still cruise the vast bulk of the officially open system without too much let or hindrance.

 

Mike.

 

Why do so many people resort, in a debate, to the black-or-white scenario. If it can't be this way then it will be full-on the other way.

 

In reality, the solutions are a continuum and could be anywhere from left stage to right stage. IMHO most of us would neither want the full black nor the full white solution. But it's not an either/or. There will be a range of solutions and improvements that would satisfy most boaters.

 

So arguing that, if we start to change things or demand certain improvements in standards, it will bring boating hell and damnation on our heads is somewhat overegging one's pudding and is not a strong enough reason to accept the status quo IMHO.

 

Chris

Edited December 26, 2007 by chris w

[onthecut]

Why do so many people resort, in a debate, to the black-or-white scenario. If it can't be this way then it will be full-on the other way.

 

In reality, the solutions are a continuum and could be anywhere from left stage to right stage. IMHO most of us would neither want the full black nor the full white solution. But it's not an either/or. There will be a range of solutions and improvements that would satisfy most boaters.

 

So arguing that, if we start to change things or demand certain improvements in standards, it will bring boating hell and damnation on our heads is somewhat overegging one's pudding and is not a strong enough reason to accept the status quo IMHO.

 

Chris

 

It's precisely because change tends to be incremetal that sometimes a stark 'black and white' picture is important. Once certain boundaries are crossed, there is rarely any turning back. I am sure you will recall in the early days of government use of computers, the pledges that any information given to Dept. X would be completely confidential and not shared has been brazenly swept aside -- to the extent that certain departments straightforwardly sell your data. We have moved from a situation where some years ago, acquiring personal debt (or a loan, if you wish to be euphemistic) entailed a face to face grilling with the bank manager to see if the repayments and your situation made it feasible. Now, individuals rack up significant debt at the press of a key, almost -- yet the consequences will be very real and long lasting if their circumstances lead to default. Using a convenient premise of concern about 'security', we are rapidly becoming one of the most monitored and controlled societies in the 'free' world and generally, sadly, the majority take it lying down. Why ? Because it's all part of that continuum. We see the immediate preceding stage and the next one proposed and it all seems so reasonable, yet somewhere the plot is lost. On this very forum, here we are talking about mending lock gates, yet in my short time on the forum, I haven't seen anyone suggesting pressing BW for the reinstatement of the statutory rights of navigation, which I believe existed. Why not ---- because we all accept there's no chance and it's a no hoper --- why ? --- because we have incrementally 'moved on' and they have redefined the playing field. As always, it's back to boiling the frog.

So, for me BW can stay in the 20th. century. Strikes me that people with pencils and paper actually achieved quite a lot and something relatively simple like canal maintenance (you know what I mean !) really isn't beyond that era. Another mince pie, please !

 

Mike.

[chris w]

Stirring stuff but luddites and laggards have never triumphed. If we had been like this in the past, we would still be in the Middle Ages. It's the price of progress. On....on to Eutopia!

 

Chris

[Supermalc]

It's precisely because change tends to be incremetal that sometimes a stark 'black and white' picture is important.

 

Mike.

 

I do so agree with you........and I'll have a mince pie with you

[onthecut]

Stirring stuff but luddites and laggards have never triumphed. If we had been like this in the past, we would still be in the Middle Ages. It's the price of progress. On....on to Eutopia!

 

Chris

 

Dystopia, I fear. Actually, looks more like on to the VP with a topic like this -- or the Philosophy with Ethics module we could put on later in the year !

 

Mike.

[seamus63834]

The news in Waterscape of the naming of BW boat, which is to maintain the waterways to a high standard, including clearing over 3,300 tonnes of rubbish each year (thats London I think)

 

OK so whats essential maintenance? A whole day dedicated to the painting of two square foot white panels? And then brewing cuppas for the rest of the day before returning to base at 4.00pm?

 

These things were described to me by a liveaboard the other week. I took a look at the two square foot panels and I'm sure I could have done that in 15 minutes! Is that maintaining the waterways to a high standard? Anyone have any other examples of BW staff 'not doing anything?'

 

Is that why the waterways are in a bad state? Yes I know waterways workers have always skived to an extent but is it getting worse?

seamus63834 if you want to see blaitent neglect by BRITISH WATERWAYS sorry i mean BRITISH WASTE AWAYS you dont haft to look any further than the kennet and avon, in particular the locks between little bedwin and crofton pound with the coping stones and brick work crumbling so badly that water is pouring between lock gate and the chamber walls on the top gate and then there is the dreded paddle gear what a waste of good cash that could have been spent better on maintainence. if b.w .had any sence they would scrap the stupid paddle gear and use what common sense they have got left if any they would use the paddle gear thats on cobblers lock just above hungerford marsh lock,and while i talk about hungerford mursh lock i wonder if b.w.i have replaced the top gates yet? doubtfull, its almost as if they spend all their budget on kaen hill with them badley/dangerous designed top gates what were they thinking. and thats my gripe about just two sections of the K&A is the maintainance any better else whare? P.S. sorry everyone i was on a bit of a rant........... Edited December 31, 2007 by seamus63834

[cotswoldsman]

WOW I must live in a different world (Canal sytem) than most people. This year I have covered over 800 miles and 600 locks single handed and can remember maybe 3 or 4 locks that have given a problem but nothing that could not be sorted. Why do people just love to knock British Waterways!!!

On my way round the system i talk to many BW staff and 99% of the time find them very polite and very helpfull. I have unfortunatly had to listen to some of the abuse that is given to them by boaters........

Do I expect the canals to be perfect....NO....

I am sure we all have heard stories of BW staff having tea breaks doing little work etc. Well I have just waited for work to be completed on Grindley Brook Locks and walked up every day to watch progress. Well in some of the worst weather conditions (Rain, cold and very strong winds) work carried on every day and the job was completed on time. Well done British Waterways Workers!!!!!!!

Talking about Grinley brook Locks when I was there in April there was a que of about 20 boats waiting to come down I could not believe the abuse the lock keeper had to enjure from some boaters complaining about the amount of time they had to wait!!!

[seaandland]

As a Banks man/maintenance/reactive worker or whatever B/W now calls me, I have read this with great interest. It’s obvious that people sit in their 60ft chipboard box and wander what to moan about next. I could sit on this forum all day talking about what boaters don’t or do, you know like leave rubbish all over the towpath, tip foul or bilge waste into the cut, urinate or worse on the towpath, let there dogs run loose and fowl, damage locks, bridges and service blocks, steal off each other, fight, get drunk and abuse the public, illegally moor and avoid licences, take drugs, sail very very poorly and damage other boats, the list can go on and on,,, unlike most of the moaners I tend not to post it as im sure it goes on in all walks and leisure industries of life. Yes, I agree that things in the camp at B/W are in a very sorry state, I for one am very unhappy with my management and have told them so on more than one occasion over the past 8 months, I have seen in the past 8 months the total breakdown of my team in respect of moral and interest in B/W. The changes put on us with the introduction of functional teams only serves a purpose to juggle the books for B/W and not make the operational side of B/W any better or quicker, and yes there are better places on the cut than others and yes you will always get shirkers I wont defend that, but if they are feeling like me and most of the personnel I meet then I cant blame them if they feel that way, remember most workers have to fill in a work sheet which is now sent to head office, this is all adding up to a costing of works, so if they don’t perform then they wont be with us for too long. I see many boaters, some who I recognise their boats off forums; it’s a pity I don’t seek to engage with them for the fear of the constant moan.

As for the moaners, well I call them the Jehovah's witnesses of the waterways, brained washed, only one way forward for them moan moan moan, you cant convert them, if you don’t hear from them for a couple of days you think they are dead, they usually have beards, belt up to their chest and a windlass tucked into the crack of their ass.

[Derek Porteous]

WOW I must live in a different world (Canal sytem) than most people. This year I have covered over 800 miles and 600 locks single handed and can remember maybe 3 or 4 locks that have given a problem but nothing that could not be sorted. Why do people just love to knock British Waterways!!!

On my way round the system i talk to many BW staff and 99% of the time find them very polite and very helpfull. I have unfortunatly had to listen to some of the abuse that is given to them by boaters........

Do I expect the canals to be perfect....NO....

I am sure we all have heard stories of BW staff having tea breaks doing little work etc. Well I have just waited for work to be completed on Grindley Brook Locks and walked up every day to watch progress. Well in some of the worst weather conditions (Rain, cold and very strong winds) work carried on every day and the job was completed on time. Well done British Waterways Workers!!!!!!!

Talking about Grinley brook Locks when I was there in April there was a que of about 20 boats waiting to come down I could not believe the abuse the lock keeper had to enjure from some boaters complaining about the amount of time they had to wait!!!

 

 

Couldn't agree more, cotswoldsman.

 

Done a similar mileage over the past two summers and had exactly the same experience with the Britsh Waterways bods.

[fender]

Couldn't agree more, cotswoldsman.

 

Done a similar mileage over the past two summers and had exactly the same experience with the Britsh Waterways bods.

 

Certainly some parts of the system will give different expereinces, and some will expereince better situations that others. Its all relative. The issue is however whether there is a distinct lack of maintenance or not on the waterways and whether BW's workings are at fault. It is nothing to do with being a 'Jehovah's Witness' (please dont use that again seaandland, I have no care or interest in the thing we call 'religion')

 

Most of what I know about BW is from others, I know very little about BW myself and I really couldnt care much as long as the waterways are maintained fairly and squarely. It seems to me that overall,certainly since the inception of the British Waterways Board in the 60's, there is still a lot of sorting out to do before it (BW) can really be considered a modern and fair organisation. It might be even time to start again and look at what we want from the canals and then what we want from BW, and whether BW is the organisation that has the skills and ability to manage the waterways. Not the other way round which seems to be that of wanting to bleed the waterways as much as possible

Edited December 31, 2007 by fender

[seaandland]

Oh I see,, you call me a skiver or ask anyone else who have seen staff 'not doing anything?' and when i call you a Jehovah’s witness you tell me to stop it, hmmm that rich,, so, its only what you have heard hey, you don’t really know yourself, hmmm that’s strange. I was told once that the moon was made of cheese, but guess what, I did not believe it, because,, I never been to see it.

[fender]

Oh I see,, you call me a skiver or ask anyone else who have seen staff 'not doing anything?' and when i call you a Jehovah’s witness you tell me to stop it, hmmm that rich,, so, its only what you have heard hey, you don’t really know yourself, hmmm that’s strange. I was told once that the moon was made of cheese, but guess what, I did not believe it, because,, I never been to see it.

 

Did I call you a skiver?

 

I dont call people on this forum by religious tones, racist tones, sexist tones or whatever.

 

But do go ahead and call me whatever, I'm not interested in games that are played for the sake of it, maybe you are doing a good job on the Caldon or wherever it is you are working and should therefore stand up for BW and point out the way forward and contstructive means of engaging with BW

[fuzzyduck]

Johnny, Johnny, Johnny

 

You do realise I'm now going to save all my moans, and even make up a few, for when we next meet. :-P

 

you are a brave man.

[seaandland]

Johnny, Johnny, Johnny

 

You do realise I'm now going to save all my moans, and even make up a few, for when we next meet. :-P

 

you are a brave man.

 

 

Honest not Brave Al, i`m no skiver. I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD START A THREAD WITH EVIDENCE RATHER THAN HEAR SAY, it makes you think that thread starting is more about how many replies you get rather than quality.

[cotswoldsman]

Oh no are you saying the Moon is not made from cheese!!

I think to work on what you hear from other boaters about BW and then express an opinion is kinda out of order!! Seems to me that most boaters just like to moan. In my opinion from what I SEE British Waterways do a good job. I find it hard to moan when I pay less than £600 a year to use all the facilities offered including my mooring as I am a PC. As my son says (who is not a boater but does spend time with me on my boat) "Why is my tax money being used to maintain the waterways just so that boaters can moan!!" BW have to work within a very tight budget if they were to do everything that needs to be done then double the licence fee, then liten to the moans about the cost of fees!!

Yes there are some workers who dont work as hard as others but this is normal in any big organisation.

[carlt]

As my son says (who is not a boater but does spend time with me on my boat) "Why is my tax money being used to maintain the waterways just so that boaters can moan!!"

BW may be on a tight budget, but it is rubbish at handling that budget.

 

And your son is paying taxes to maintain a public asset (which he then takes advantage of, on your boat). The boaters pay a supplement to use this asset, something which the majority of people who enjoy the waterways don't.