Rocker Oilers

[Floaty Me Boaty]

Hi All,

 

Just purchased a boat with a lovely J3 and would like to put Oilers on, as shown in the picture.

Are these just normal oilers, drilled and secured or are there specialist ones i need to source?

Thanks in advance.

[dave moore]

They should be fine. I was given 2 to fit on our Kelvin, but being a J3 I never got round to it….I think they are still on a dusty shelf in my workshop. Lovely motors, a measured triple on tick over.

[magnetman]

Very pretty. The cone clutch gearboxes can be interesting. Maybe a little weight or a spring to keep the prop from dragging it into neutral. 

[BEngo]

19 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Very pretty. The cone clutch gearboxes can be interesting. Maybe a little weight or a spring to keep the prop from dragging it into neutral. 

The prop *Will Not* drag it into neutral. 

 

If it is properly installed the whole prop shaft moves forward and backward as the clutch is engaged.  The thrust from the prop will then ensure that the  clutch stays engaged.  There are two serious Thrust bearings in the rear wall of the crankcase and the rear wall of the gearbox to push the boat along.

 

If the box has been  incorrectly installed,  with  a separate thrust bearing and a cardan shaft then trouble is ahead. Some lined cone boxes creep out of gear; usually because the female  cones have become worn and misaligned with the lined male cone.  You can use a weight, or a wedge to hold it in gear  but that is not how Mr Bergius intended it to work.

The unlined cone boxes are less prone to creeping out of gear.  Indeed they are renowned for needing an extra lap of the harbour whilst someone beat the clutch thrust box with heavy weights to get it out of gear.

 

 

Any old oiler  will do, but they are not essential.  If you make the  wick trimmings from the oil pots properly (using wool and some fine copper wire, not pipe cleaners, please)  they can be adjusted by twisting the wick so the  oil can be made to last, and lubricate the rockers well, for about 12 hours  which is enough for most modern boating.  If not, it takes only  seconds to whip the tops off and add a little oil if you are boating Arthur and Ernie style.   AND you can do it while going along.

 

N

[magnetman]

Yes the boat I was thinking of did have a cardan shaft which is why I thought it was the prop effectively pulling it out of gear. Obviously the prop is pushing the boat when under load but under some circumstances such as slowing down it could be a drag force I think. 

 

 

 

I had a similar thing happening with a Sabb engine I put in a boat with a short cardan shaft. i really got the impression it was the prop pulling it out of gear. I know the shaft moves in and out but this relies on thrust ie an engine continuously running at the same speed like in a fishing boat or lifeboat. Not something which happens on canal boats. 

[Floaty Me Boaty]

Here is my new baby.

[magnetman]

Exhaust looks nicely done. Did the Boat Safety not want that lagged?

[Floaty Me Boaty]

Not that i am aware but can ask the question.

[BEngo]

Nice.  Looks like a horizontal piston governor with the oil  trap on the rack output rod.

Direct starting engine with Ricardo Comet Mk3  venturis.  Keep it warm in winter to make starting easier.  Has it electric start?

 

No magneto.🙄

 

 Lagging that exhaust would be a good idea.  It is an ideal place to automatically rest your hand whilst adjusting and oiling things. Once at least!  DAMHIKT.

 Wonderful engines, but you need to keep a spanner on them.

N

 

[Floaty Me Boaty]

Yes, it has an Electric start.

 

Just spoke to a friend, and it will have to be lagged before the next exam , which is 2024.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, NobbyHall said:

 

Just spoke to a friend, and it will have to be lagged before the next exam , which is 2024.

 

I don't think it is mandatory nowadays. Advisory only. 

[BEngo]

11 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 Advisory only. 

Until you put your hand on it after running up from Gloucester to Lower Lode against a bit of fresh!

 

The glass fibre tape is readily available on line ( in pretty colours too)  at much better prices than the chandlers.

N

[magnetman]

If there is room I would be tempted to fix a stout metal pole from floor to ceiling beside the front end of the engine as a hand hold. Might not be space but if there is you could use 33.7mm tube and key clamp base flanges at each end. Might be a way of avoiding using engine parts to hold onto. 

 

 

[Floaty Me Boaty]

31 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Until you put your hand on it after running up from Gloucester to Lower Lode against a bit of fresh!

 

The glass fibre tape is readily available on line ( in pretty colours too)  at much better prices than the chandlers.

N

Googled some last evening,and with Stainless Steel Cable ties, it all comes in at under £30. Not bad at all.

Edited February 25 by NobbyHall

[magnetman]

Looking at the picture again what is the copper rod with what looks like a piece of pipe insulator? Is this for holding onto or is it part of the speed control linkage? 

 

 

I think it is the speed control and the piece of insulator is for turning it by hand from beside the engine. 

Edited February 25 by magnetman

[MtB]

51 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Until you put your hand on it after running up from Gloucester to Lower Lode against a bit of fresh!

 

The glass fibre tape is readily available on line ( in pretty colours too)  at much better prices than the chandlers.

N

 

Indeed yes but my point was it is not a BSS fail, so the OP is free to decide whether or not he wants it lagged. 

 

None of the exhausts on my own Kelvins or the Gleniffer ever gets hot enough to properly burn you, but still hot enough to make you learn wary of touching!

 

And at a tangent, that flexi exhaust section looks way too small to my eye. My K exhausts are enormous in comparison! 

 

 

[BEngo]

Agree about the BSS.

 

Hard to determine the existing pipe size  really.  It does look  bit small where the rigid bits are.  Probably not a problem for pottering on narrow cuts, but I would want at least 1 1/2 in inside diameter pipe  for a J which is going to run at speed on a river.  The K cylinder volume is about  twice as big as the J so you do need an even  bigger pipe to get rid of each puff.

N

[Floaty Me Boaty]

5 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Indeed yes but my point was it is not a BSS fail, so the OP is free to decide whether or not he wants it lagged. 

 

None of the exhausts on my own Kelvins or the Gleniffer ever gets hot enough to properly burn you, but still hot enough to make you learn wary of touching!

 

And at a tangent, that flexi exhaust section looks way too small to my eye. My K exhausts are enormous in comparison! 

 

 

Tape measure out when i get there in a couple of weeks. Thanks for the input.

[koukouvagia]

On 24/02/2023 at 16:23, Floaty Me Boaty said:

Hi All,

 

Just purchased a boat with a lovely J3 and would like to put Oilers on, as shown in the picture.

Are these just normal oilers, drilled and secured or are there specialist ones i need to source?

Thanks in advance.

 

These look very much like the ones I fitted to Owl.  To be honest they were pretty useless (just a bit more bling) because I still had to fill the oil reservoirs which were needed with their wicks to do the job as Mr Bergius intended.  

I bought mine in 1999 from Brian Chisholm at a cost of £70 the pair.

[Floaty Me Boaty]

Hi,

Thanks for getting back to me.

As you have pointed out they are a tad useless, i will leave the setup as it is.

Thank once again.

Edited March 20 by Floaty Me Boaty

[dave moore]

We never fitted the two I had and never had issues with lack of top end lubrication. If it ain’t broke…don’t fix it.

[Floaty Me Boaty]

Good advice Dave.

I saw them somewhere and thought, etc etc etc, but like you say, leave it alone.

Someone did mention that topping them up before you cruise, will last a good 8 hours anyway.

That's what i will do.

[BEngo]

Filling the oil wells should be part of the daily pre-start lubrication round: oil wells, water pump crankshaft in three places,  (plus starting valve stems and their operating cams on a petrol start engine).

 

The oil wells will last about 12 hours, if you set the wicks up correctly.  They go faster when the engine ( and the oil in the wells)  has warmed up.  Do not neglect them as the rocker spindles depend on the oil wells for lubrication, and the bearing bushes wear surprisingly fast if there is no oil.  There are also needle roller bearing rocker spindles which will get by with a little less oil.

 

N

[Floaty Me Boaty]

8 hours ago, BEngo said:

Filling the oil wells should be part of the daily pre-start lubrication round: oil wells, water pump crankshaft in three places,  (plus starting valve stems and their operating cams on a petrol start engine).

 

The oil wells will last about 12 hours, if you set the wicks up correctly.  They go faster when the engine ( and the oil in the wells)  has warmed up.  Do not neglect them as the rocker spindles depend on the oil wells for lubrication, and the bearing bushes wear surprisingly fast if there is no oil.  There are also needle roller bearing rocker spindles which will get by with a little less oil.

 

N

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

One further question, is there a Workshop manual in existence?

Alternatively, contact details of mechanics that specialise in Kelvins, with the view of carrying out an annual maintenance.

Thanks in advance.

 

[BEngo]

The workshop manual, such as it is, is called  The Running and Repair of the Kelvin Model J.  Book no 18 IIRC when it was available from the factory.  Original copies change hands for good money.

 

There are copies of the handbook and the spares list, which is essentially an exploded diagram of the Model K, on line.  Try Mike Skyners Kelvin web site.  skynet.org or similar.

 

The engine is really simple to understand.  After all it was designed to be maintained by fisherfolk.  So the best thing is to learn to DIY. Look after it and a 'J' will give years of service. 

Looking after it means oil it daily, keep a spanner on the assorted nuts  especially the engine feet, and an oily rag to hand, keep the oil level right and change the engine and gearbox oil every 200 hours or so. Change the water pump packing if/when it leaks too much and that is about it.

 

Talk to other Kelvin owners.  We are fill of hints, tips and hard-won experience 

 

N