New Enterprises

[Ron]

Whilst on holiday recently on a warm, laid back island in the Med - with no canals.

I got talking to somone who had spent the last fifteen years or so developing posh hotels in exotic places and was mising the mud and warm ale of England.

They had a dream of comming back to the UK and doing something profitable with say a small fleet of Narrowboats.

I don't think they actually wanted to get their hands too dirty.

Here is somone whose skills are in raising money for projects , marketing and selling things at a profit.

 

At first I shied away, as I am a little wary of that type of person, but thinking about it there must be all sorts of projects on the the canals which have stalled, or not got off the ground for lack of funds, matching them to a sympathetic commecial developement is an obvious way forwards.

 

If somone did want to establish a small fleet of boats for hire or perhaps a timeshare operation. What are the problems and limitations?

Edited November 17, 2007 by Ron

[anhar]

...If somone did want to establish a small fleet of boats for hire or perhaps a timeshare operation. What are the problems and limitations?

There's no money in it, that's the problem.

[Ron]

So everyone is doing it for fun?

[Maverick]

So everyone is doing it for fun?

 

Hire fleets and canal business's are disapearing all the time. The bubble has burst and youve missed the Boat (no pun intended)

[NB Willawaw]

I think it is possible to make money on the canals, but there is a difference between subsistence

doing a job that you find satisfying and making lots of money.

 

The guy you describe doesn't sound like the former type.

 

As I said somewhere the other day on here, inland waterways boaters are not the most extravagant with their cash.

[carlt]

Is that boat with the pole dancing stage still up for sale?

[Ron]

Are there no new Marina developments?

 

Barton Turns is the most recent I come accross , but I have not been on the water in the last 12months.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Ron

[ChrisG]

Are there no new Marina developments?

 

Barton Turns is the most recent I come accross , but I have not been on the water in the last 12months.

 

 

BW is still encouraging people to construct new marinas with the intention of reducing online moorings - I covered the new one opening at Blisworth just three month ago, and there are more building. These, I think, are seen by their owners/developers as worthwhile long-term investments.

 

Successful boat builders certainly make considerable volumes of money, and with around (I think) 700 to 1,000 new narrow boats appearing every year, its a tidy-size niche market. The volume builders, who are constucting their boats abroad in cheap labour/factory cost areas, are probably generating good profits, although their business models depend on those costs not rising dramatically, which they might.

 

Despite the protestations of poverty of many owners, I'd be interested to see how many here own boats built in the last four or five years . . . .

Edited November 18, 2007 by ChrisG

[Ron]

How are the numbers of boats the waterways regulated?

Presumably you can't just buy 20 narrowboats put them on the water somewhere and set up a timeshare operation?

[1066]

How are the numbers of boats the waterways regulated?

Presumably you can't just buy 20 narrowboats put them on the water somewhere and set up a timeshare operation?

 

You can have as many boats as you like, as long as you can provide legal moorings for them. At the moment, this is one of the main problems that boat owners, or prospective boat owners, are facing in this country.

The marinas are few and far between, and generally very expensive. On-line moorings are a pain in the butt, with very few facilities usually.

[Ron]

So the real limiting factor is the lack of New Marina developments, which Government money is not going to fund leaving or possibly hoping that private money might do the Job, though the canal community is suspicious of that source.

 

Are their any brownfield sites of little historical value with a good water frontage that could be developed as a Marina/Leisure or Residential complexes?

 

The housing market may not be as bouyant as it was, but it can still turn a fair profit and a water frontage with some attractive narrowboats will add 10 -20% to the price, providing sensible precautions are taken against flooding.

Edited November 18, 2007 by Ron

[carlt]

You can have as many boats as you like, as long as you can provide legal moorings for them. At the moment, this is one of the main problems that boat owners, or prospective boat owners, are facing in this country.The marinas are few and far between, and generally very expensive. On-line moorings are a pain in the butt, with very few facilities usually.

 

Why are on-line moorings a pain in the butt? If I had to moor in a marina, i would have never had a boat. Facilities are plentiful, you just have to provide them yourself, instead of relying on someone else.

 

So the real limiting factor is the lack of New Marina developments, which Government money is not going to fund leaving or possibly hoping that private money might do the Job, though the canal community is suspicious of that source.Are their any brownfield sites of little historical value with a good water frontage that could be developed as a Marina/Leisure or Residential complexes?The housing market may not be as bouyant as it was, but it can still turn a fair profit and a water frontage with some attractive narrowboats will add 10 -20% to the price, providing sensible precautions are taken against flooding.

 

There seems to be a new hole dug in the ground every five minutes, with loads of encouragement from BW.

 

You usually find that, when a new housing development goes up, the first demand is the removal of moorings so the residents don't have to look at boats.

Edited November 18, 2007 by carlt

[Supermalc]

Apparently the council have given planning permission for a marina to be built just upstream of the road bridge at Chapel Hill. No one wants this of course as it will no doubt be full of narrowboats, will ruin the nice rural area.

 

The only redeeming feature however is this will obviously be a dead duck, and a financial dissaster, so hopefull will put off any prospective developer.

[Ron]

Are the hire fleets ands othe businesses that are dissappearing being replaced?In most industries there are a constant small number of failures because people have misjudged the market or whatever, but if the industry as a whole is healthy those businesses are replaced.What is happening to to Boatyards etc wich are going up for sale?

Apparently the council have given planning permission for a marina to be built just upstream of the road bridge at Chapel Hill. No one wants this of course as it will no doubt be full of narrowboats, will ruin the nice rural area.The only redeeming feature however is this will obviously be a dead duck, and a financial dissaster, so hopefull will put off any prospective developer.

Where's Chapel Hill?

[bottle]

Hi Ron

 

The biggest hire company is Alvechurch (trading under many guises) they seem to buy the majority of hire companies that come up for sale.

 

With all the recent news about cuts to defra and then the waterways it may not be the best time to invest.

 

Edit: spelling

Edited November 18, 2007 by bottle

[NB Willawaw]

The canals in this country are "controlled" by a small number of large interests.

There might be room for small players like a small hire boat operation (check out Aqua)

or a small boatyard, but the returns on investment will be small.

 

If you are thinking of large hire fleets or a large marina, you will need to squeeze the big boys.

 

BW are going through the motions of encouraging farmers to develop marina sites and holding workshops

to that end. Check out the activities of BWML.

 

IMHO forget narrowboat building - too many players; too few customers with the waterways fast approaching

boat saturation.

[dor]

I wonder how much longer this marina-building craze will continue. To be profitable, the mooring charges need to be significant, typically around £2500 up in t'north - much more down south. This is more than double the typical BW online mooring. With the likely downturn in boating with the huge increases in costs that is going to hit us over the next three years, one wonders if a new marina is the sure-fire business proposition that BW would like people to think.

[Ron]

BW are going through the motions of encouraging farmers to develop marina sites and holding workshops

to that end. Check out the activities of BWML.

 

I find the thought of the farming comuunity developing marinas quite encouraging, at least they have a sympathy for the land and most that are still in business after the last decade are quite astute business men too.

[Supermalc]

Where's Chapel Hill?

 

In the middle of rural Lincolnshire.......back of beyond more or less.........hardly any boating on the Witham, and that's the way we like it. Even boats at Burton Waters near Lincoln rarely leave their berth.

 

[carlt]

at least they have a sympathy for the land and most that are still in business after the last decade are quite astute business men too.

Tongue in cheek smiley deployed?

Most farmers have a sympathy for the land when the best EU grants are for set-aside and hedge laying.

 

If there was an EU grant for 'scorched earth' then most farmers would be stocking up on napalm as we type.

[Ron]

Tongue in cheek smiley deployed?

Most farmers have a sympathy for the land when the best EU grants are for set-aside and hedge laying.

 

If there was an EU grant for 'scorched earth' then most farmers would be stocking up on napalm as we type.

 

 

At least they have the skills to lay a hedge and probably enjoy the chance to use them when funds make it a viable option.

 

England's "Green & pleasent land" actually exists because the argicultural community have kept it that way in many cases for generation after generaion within the same family. Often at a loss in years like this when many crops have been wiped out by bad weather.

 

What traumatic event has so jaundiced your view of this community?

Edited November 18, 2007 by Ron

[Ron]

In the middle of rural Lincolnshire.......back of beyond more or less.........hardly any boating on the Witham, and that's the way we like it. Even boats at Burton Waters near Lincoln rarely leave their berth.

 

Sounds wonderful, best not to advertise the place....sorry I asked!

[carlt]

At least they have the skills to lay a hedge and probably enjoy the chance to use them when funds make it a viable option.

 

England's "Green & pleasent land" actually exists because the argicultural community have kept it that way in many cases for generation after generaion within the same family. Often at a loss in years like this when many crops have been wiped out by bad weather.

 

What traumatic event has so jaundiced your view of this community?

1) EU announces subsidies on oilseed rape: result? Englands green and pleasant land turns yellow.

2) The wholesale destruction of our hedgerows, by farmers was halted when the EU decided to offer grants for hedgelaying.

3) The destruction of heath and moorland by farmers cashing in on the plant a tree tax break.

 

England's 'green and pleasant land' is largely a chemically enhanced food factory. It is only changing in recent years, not because farmers have magically seen the light, but because grants are now available to not to grow food.

 

Now the bio-fuel boom is starting, what colour will the green and pleasant land turn? Can you guess?

[Ron]

1) EU announces subsidies on oilseed rape: result? Englands green and pleasant land turns yellow.

2) The wholesale destruction of our hedgerows, by farmers was halted when the EU decided to offer grants for hedgelaying.

3) The destruction of heath and moorland by farmers cashing in on the plant a tree tax break.

 

England's 'green and pleasant land' is largely a chemically enhanced food factory. It is only changing in recent years, not because farmers have magically seen the light, but because grants are now available to not to grow food.

 

Now the bio-fuel boom is starting, what colour will the green and pleasant land turn? Can you guess?

 

If the EU ecourages farmers to plant oilseed rape aren't the EU to blame for the consequences of that policy?

Many farmers have tried experimenting with crops like Linseed - a pleasent blue instead.

 

The problem was to find something that was economical to grow as prices of Wheat and Barley were so low.

Grain Mountains were growing, but taking land permanently out of production would have been a mistake ( note crop failures on the Continent, Australia and other places in last couple of years and this years flooding in the UK )

 

I am not claiming Farmer's are entirely innocent, but for the most part they do care about the land quite strongly (- I meet quite a few as i do quality control for export wheat. )

 

The biggest event in the biofuel line at the moment I suspect is Glencore's 's bioethanol plant: http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2006/11/16/9...eat-prices.html

This will take 1.2million MT of wheat.

As this country usually has an excess of 1.6millionMT for export etc, this will be encouraging wheat production, rather than the yellow stuff, which I agree is unsightly.

This is, as I understand it, an attempt to support both Biofuels ( which are actually good for the environment ) and the price of wheat, allowing Farmers to stick with the more traditional crop.

 

Returning to my original point I think generally Farmers would do far less damage than say a city developer, who I feel to be far more likely to go for a scorched earth policy without considering the consequences.

Edited November 18, 2007 by Ron

[fender]

Dor - Engineers Wharf (the new marina on the Paddington arm) is like a jaccuzi, bubbles of water come up from the bottom all over the marina

 

A waste of money if you ask me

 

and who wants to be in/live in a marina anyway!

Edited November 18, 2007 by fender