Where’s the Diesel ?

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, john.k said:

Whats the objection to the Racor?

 

Nothing if it is known as complaint with the relevant BS/ISO, which I think it is and is known to be so. A genuine Racor  should pass the BSS, a far eastern knock ff copy should fail unless appropriately marked.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

The BSS says that plastic fuel tanks are only acceptable if CE marked. It doesn't specifically address the situation of steel fuel tanks with plastic inspection hatches, but I would have thought an Examiner would only accept them if they were specifically marked as CE compliant and suitable for use with diesel.

 

I suppose if any of the examiners I had had troubled themselves to go into the engine room and lift the duck-boards they could have seen the inspection hatches and decided  if they were compliant, as it was they didn't even know they existed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit :Why does the forum software sometimes invert pictures ?

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[bigcol]

Hi there  this is a copy of a email sent to me

 

David Fuller, head of the technical department of the BSS, has responded back to us confirming that the fuel/water separator filter is not compliant.

It will need to be replaced with a suitable proprietary fire-resistant unit.

 

Applicability 

• All metal fuel filters are accepted as being sufficiently fire resistant also fuel filters marked with ISO 10088 are acceptable.

 

• Heatshields are not acceptable unless supplied with the unit and supporting documentation verifying this.

 

Apologies again that this wasn’t picked up on the original inspection. 

[Alan de Enfield]

Presumably you didn't buy the Racor BSS Compliant water separator ?

 

One serious advantage of the RACOR 500 is that you can open the filter without tools and change the filter in about 30 seconds. Also, filters come in different micron values. The 500MA comes with an integral heat shield, and as a result is Boat Safety compliant - allowing use of a see-through bowl which is otherwise not permitted under BSS rules.

[bigcol]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I suppose if any of the examiners I had had troubled themselves to go into the engine room and lift the duck-boards they could have seen the inspection hatches and decided  if they were compliant, as it was they didn't even know they existed.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit :Why does the forum software sometimes invert pictures ?

 

 

Yes I’ve had to buy a new separator that is all metal, as like Alans

not allowed the glass bowl ones either!

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, bigcol said:

Yes I’ve had to buy a new separator that is all metal, as like Alans

not allowed the glass bowl ones either!

 

 

But you can have the glass bowl one if it is a BSS compliant Racor.

[bigcol]

I think the whole point of having a seperator is that the ability of seeing water/gunk that could be in the fuel, and drain off through the bottom tap

Edited June 27, 2022 by bigcol

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, bigcol said:

I think the whole point of having a seperator is that the ability of seeing water/gunk that could be in the fuel, and drain off through the bottom tap

 

Agreed - buy a BSS compliant one and show the BSS examiner the proof it is compliant.

I seem to rememeber that in the past the BSS actually listed brands & models of compliant clear water separators.

 

Send them the Racor details / advert.

 

From the BSS website :

 

Fuel filters can be prone to the heat from a fire and impact damage. Failure of a fuel filter can lead to additional fuel being added to any fire. You must only use appropriate fire resistant and impact resistant fuel filters designed for marine use. Clear bowl, glass or plastic filters meeting these criteria are acceptable, as long as they are designed for use with the fuel-type. Alternatively fuel filters marked with ISO 10088 are also acceptable.

[john.k]

I cant see the upside down ones ,but assume they have the alternative aluminium settlement bowl.......think its called an "agglomerator" by CAV,or whoever owns the ghost .....I do recall the ally bowl is horrifically expensive,for what it is.....the risk with the glass ones is one tiny touch with a spanner ,and they break......have known them to break from just being tightened to stop gasket leak.

[john.k]

Also interesting to note the 600 C for 2 1/2 minutes requirement.......I would doubt the diecast pot metal (mazak/zamak) used in CAV filters would survive this......and also doubt the diecast AC lift pumps would survive either.......no diecast carburettor used on a petrol motor will survive,having seen any number of melted carbies caused by only the petrol they contain.

[bigcol]

Hi all Just to say, we now have fuel coming out the fuel tank

I used a hand pump to pump air in, hearing the sound of bubbles

And on vacuum it produces fuel.

so it must have been a blockage which is worry

thanks for the ideas re finding out if there was a blockage

 

all the best

 

col

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, bigcol said:

so it must have been a blockage which is worry

 

 

Indeed, and so it should be.

If you have blown the 'blockage' back into the tank, then you can bet yoru last penny that evetually it'll work its way back into the pipe again.

 

Take the opportunity to clean out the tank (properly) and get rid of all the drill swarf, bits of plastic, crud and rust so it doesn't happen again.

[bigcol]

33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Indeed, and so it should be.

If you have blown the 'blockage' back into the tank, then you can bet yoru last penny that evetually it'll work its way back into the pipe again.

 

Take the opportunity to clean out the tank (properly) and get rid of all the drill swarf, bits of plastic, crud and rust so it doesn't happen again.

Now that will be a job and a half!

 

thanks col

 

[bigcol]

Hi there

 

just to give a update, I was a blockage in the fuel tank.

used wire, and I don’t know why, but a bit of steel came out.

lucky I was able to get the cause of the blocage

so we’re up and running,

 

regards to the separator,, it was removed, and now it’s back on for another 4 years

just seems so stupid, there rubber hoses, that surely would be alight well before the seperator.

Ive got 2 x 2kg automatic fire extinguishers in the engine bay.. should be okay.

 

anyway

 

thank you all, another problem jointly solved by you and form members

 

thank you

 

[Bargebuilder]

On 27/06/2022 at 07:29, David Mack said:

The BSS says that plastic fuel tanks are only acceptable if CE marked. It doesn't specifically address the situation of steel fuel tanks with plastic inspection hatches, but I would have thought an Examiner would only accept them if they were specifically marked as CE compliant and suitable for use with diesel.

If the plastic hatch shown by Alan De Enfield was in a fuel tank, then it looks identical to one I used in a water tank. My one couldn't be made fully water tight, no matter how hard it was screwed into place. The moment the tank was full and the water partly filled the filler hose, the head of water would force water out from the lid. I'm sure his was a better product, but the one I had wasn't fit for that purpose.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

If the plastic hatch shown by Alan De Enfield was in a fuel tank, then it looks identical to one I used in a water tank. My one couldn't be made fully water tight, no matter how hard it was screwed into place. The moment the tank was full and the water partly filled the filler hose, the head of water would force water out from the lid. I'm sure his was a better product, but the one I had wasn't fit for that purpose.

 

Did you have the 'huge' O-Ring around the inside of the threads in the lid ?

 

They are sold as watertight (airtight) lids for lockers on ocean going sailing boats (that can be swept by waves). It sounds like yours was either damaged (as mine had become and now replaced) or was incomplete.

[Bargebuilder]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Did you have the 'huge' O-Ring around the inside of the threads in the lid ?

 

They are sold as watertight (airtight) lids for lockers on ocean going sailing boats (that can be swept by waves). It sounds like yours was either damaged (as mine had become and now replaced) or was incomplete.

I did have the 'o' ring. I have seen them used many times in sailing boats and they are fine for dollops of green water.

 

A friend of mine too used one as an inspection hatch on a water tank and suffered the same problem as I had: we both had to watch during filling that we didn't fill quite to the top to avoid spilling water into the bilge. Eventually I sealed mine with mastic, but that defeated the object of having it.

That particular tank was supplied by CAK Tanks pre- installed, so I was a bit disappointed with my purchase. In fact, I bought two of them and linked them and both hatches were leaky. I'm glad yours were successful, but would urge caution to others just in case my two and my friend's were not the exception.

[Alan de Enfield]

I have 3 on my fuel tank, 1 on my Grey water tank, 1 on my Black water tank and 1 on my Potable water tank.

 

The ones on the grey and Black tanks are perfectly airtight and no smells 'get out' and we would notice as the tanks are under the floor of the galley and 'dining room'.

The water tank is under the floor of the forward cabin and there have never been (thats probably 'doomed' it now) any leaks when filling the water tank. The water filler is about 6 feet above the tank-hatch so it can get quite a 'head' when filling.

 

The fuel tank is under the floor in the engine room and has 'duck-boards' running along the top of the tank, and leakage, or even 'disesel smell' would be very noticeable.

 

I can only say as I find.

 

Top of fuel tank :