Kingfisher 14D and MA 100 gearbox.

[36national]

Hi I would like help with a with a Kingfisher 14D and in particular the MA 100 gearbox. The gearbox leaks hydraulic oil, not always coz that would be too easy. Only when you aren't looking. OK so keep looking problem solved. But seriously there is a hose near where the linkage that selects forward and reverse is located on the top of the gearbox. I suspect that the leak is from there (or at least one leak is from there.) Is there anyone who understands how this thing works who could give me some pointers. Preferably someone with a yard full of free 14D spares who likes working on these engines so much that they ll send me to the pub at their own expense so they can get on with fixing it gratis in peace and quiet but thats just a negotiating position. I may have to move on that. 

[Tony Brooks]

As usual photos always help but the only reason I can see for a hydraulic gearbox to use a hose, or more likely a pair of hoses is to pass oil through an oil cooler and such hoses do fail but I would expect any decent hydraulic hose company to make one up for you. This is based on general principles rather than product specific knowledge.

 

Manual here; http://www.kingfisherdieselengines.uk/MA Gearbox Manual & Parts List.pdf

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[36national]

[Tony Brooks]

Thanks but it does not show enough of the gearbox.

 

The manual suggests, as I thought, the hose runs to an oil cooler. The gearbox is very similar in concept to the larger PRM hydraulic boxes with oil pressure engaging one of two clutches depending on it ahead or astern is selected.

[36national]

that is the hose in question which rather unhelpfully has come out upside down. it doesnt go to the oil cooler it just goes back into the gearbox. The oil cooler hose is the one on the left of the upside down photo. bear with me a bit 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, 36national said:

that is the hose in question which rather unhelpfully has come out upside down. it doesnt go to the oil cooler it just goes back into the gearbox. The oil cooler hose is the one on the left of the upside down photo. bear with me a bit 

 

The manual suggest that hose is the control valve inlet so, according to normal hydraulic principles, all the time the box is in ahead or astern that hose is subject to full oil pressure but hopefully virtually zero in neutral.  My guess is it is leaking at the crimp where the hose is crimped onto the end connection.

[36national]

that photo shows the oil cooler hoses and itsd even the right way up weyhey not that it matters. the suspect hose is the one by the red wire. I dunno what it does. My own gearbox (a newage) does not have a hose here, just a brass plug which i believe has a seal behind it .

 

[Tony Brooks]

I did say "similar in concept" to the PRMs, not identical. According to the manual that hose supplies the oil to the control valve, I presume from the internal oil pump. I suspect the boxes are assembled from a number of standard parts that vary depending upon the model so if any are different sizes a hose maybe the easiest way to make the connection.

[36national]

ok  a leaky crimp. id love to believe it. all the joints on those hoses have bits of clean rag wrapped round them to just in case the gearbox finally wants to tattle tale where its leaking from.

 

i admit that it would be an immense help if i had the foggiest idea how a hydraulic gearbox worked in the first place. 

[36national]

anybody know someone who can make custom hoses preferably near to Macclesfield. We could take that hose off and get new hose recrimped onto the same fittings. would be cheap enough to be worth a shot even if just for elimination purposes

 

[BEngo]

Look up Pirtec for your area.  Try to get the hose a little longer than the existing as the bend at the banjo end looks a lot too tight a radius to me.

 

N

[36national]

Cheers Pirtek in stoke, ill try em on Monday, its funny you mentioned the banjo, when I was looking at the photo in light of Tony's comments I noticed the hose looked  strained. By slackening the banjo and rotating it clockwise a bit the hose would be a lot more relaxed. The first time I remember this boat losing traction due to loss of hydraulic oil was about 5 years ago. Its been an intermittent fault but that's a hell of a lot of nappies since. An oily bilge gathers no rot; or some such nonsense but its cheaper and easier to apply than paint. 

[Tony Brooks]

Please be aware that my replies have been based on the first photo that shows a straight connection onto what looks like the control valve with no banjo in sight. I can't work out what part of the box the banjo in the second photo is fitted to. However the hose running to the cntrol valve shows no indications of a leak around the crimp but the parts around the banjo do look oily and as BEngo says the bend looks very tight. I don't think it needs a longer hose, I think whoever fitted it did not hold the banjo in position as they tightened the bolt, allowing it to twist.

[Bee]

Pirtek or just look up hydraulic engineers or something similar. Most towns have some sort of outfit on an industrial estate somewhere.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Bee said:

Pirtek or just look up hydraulic engineers or something similar. Most towns have some sort of outfit on an industrial estate somewhere.

 

Indeed, there is a HUGE demand for replacement hydraulic hoses especially on building sites etc where I suspect they get easily damaged on dumpers, JCBs etc.

 

Also, Pirtek I believe will come to you rather than you needing to take the hose to them for copying. They certainly have a lot of signwritten high-top vans out on the road and my guess is they are fitted out inside to make up hoses on the spot. 

[john.k]

Mobile hose vans a plenty.....however ,unless cost is immaterial,do get a quote before replacing 3 or more hoses.............I had one 2.5 M -6 (3/8) hose replaced before Christmas ,and the price was $200 +tax...........I have always made up my own hoses using Duffield replacable fittings,but the stock of hose has run out,so the hose shop wont use the Duffield fittings,but rather sell you Chinese crimp fittings that cost them maybe 50P each.,and are are easy for an apprentice to fit (foolproof).....Thats progress.