Hot Water

[anthony]

What options are there available for creating hot water for washing,shower,bath ect ?

 

We are on a tight budget and are wondering if a calorifier connected to the engine is the only way to heat water.

I know its possible to use gas but unsure of the equipment needed.

[bottle]

Hi Anthony

 

Hot water from engine, central heating boiler, oil burning stove, solid fuel stove all require pipework to calorifier and possibly a pump as well. (except engine, central heating boiler, already pumped.)

 

'Normal' to have two coils in the calorifier one for the engine and one for the other systems.

[anhar]

Hello anthony

 

There are a number of old threads on this topic, do a search.

 

There are three common methods on modern boats. Engine, separate central heating boiler and immersion heater. The latter though can be used only on a shore line, not from the batteries, because of its high consumption. The ch boiler heats the boat via radiators and produces hot water like a house ch system and in warm weather can be used for the water alone.

 

This three way set up enables hot water to be produced anytime, anywhere without running the engine. A boiler on a solid fuel stove is impractical and of limited use because the stove would not be lit in warm weather.

 

When crusing you obtain free hot water from the engine but once moored that won't last more than a day or so, consequently an alternative method is desirable, though one could just run the engine, that's what a number of older boats do, and that charges the batteries as well. Personally I dislike having engines chugging away for lengthy periods at moorings.

 

Another method used on older boats is the instant gas water heater but those don't heat the boat, just the water.

 

Which approach suits you depends on a number of factors. How much money you have, how much comfort and practicality you want, minimising work and so on. But you do need to co-ordinate your hot water requirement with your boat heating requirement because they are linked. For example going for a diesel or gas ch system will deliver hot water as part of the set up.

 

regards

Steve

Edited October 29, 2007 by anhar

[chris w]

Just a couple of comments on Steve's excellent points.

 

1. Gas c/h on boats can be expensive in terms of gas consumption compared with a diesel heater based on previous forum topics.

 

2. With regard to the various makes of diesel heater, notably Webasto, Hurricane and Eberspacher, the latter seems to have more reported problems on this forum than the other two put together. The received wisdom being that Eberspachers don't seem to like running on red diesel.

 

3. Running your engine whilst moored (ie: out of gear) will mean that the engine doesn't get up to the kind of temperature it runs at under load and it is reported in the literature that the additives in the lubricating oil can bake into a varnish-like substance rather than be burned off as would be normal. This causes a phenomenon called "bore glazing" which reduces the piston ring seal because the cylinders end up with a glaze-like surface. Occasional use like this will probably do no harm but if you were relying on this mode to generate hot water every day then it may lead to eventual engine problems. Running the engine in-gear (to avoid this) is not permitted whilst moored under BW regulations because of bank erosion.

 

Chris

[anthony]

Thanks for the reply Anhar.

 

For heating for the time being my budget will only allow a woodburner which I already have.

I was just thinking about a modern version for instant hot water that dont cost too much.

I have seen a Palomo copy made by another firm (cant remember the name) for £180.

 

Im just trying to see what the cheapest option is just so we can get some warm water without boiling it on a gas stove.

 

Thanks.

[hector1988]

I beleive The Paloma is still legal, if not i am sure someone will tell us. This would be your best bet if you

are on a budget, also it only heats what you need. We had one on our last boat and it was very good.

Keep a kettle on top of your woodburner of course. We had a 1 Gallon kettle for that.

Dave

[anthony]

I beleive The Paloma is still legal, if not i am sure someone will tell us. This would be your best bet if you

are on a budget, also it only heats what you need. We had one on our last boat and it was very good.

Keep a kettle on top of your woodburner of course. We had a 1 Gallon kettle for that.

Dave

My thoughts are though when using something like a Paloma is where is the hot water stored?

Can you use it for a shower?

[Sir Nibble]

My thoughts are though when using something like a Paloma is where is the hot water stored?

Can you use it for a shower?

This is "instant heat". The cold water from your tank is pumped to the tap/shower head with the gas heater heating it en-route. Like the old household "Ascot".

[Liam]

Unlike a calorifier where the water is heated, and then stored, the Paloma heats the water which passes through it so it's only suited for instant use.

[anthony]

Unlike a calorifier where the water is heated, and then stored, the Paloma heats the water which passes through it so it's only suited for instant use.

 

Right great thanks for clearing that up.

 

Ive seen a N210 Morco D61E Instantaneous Water Heater which is some kind of replacement for the Paloma heaters for £158.40 plus £28.51 for the flu kit.

Im trying to reckon up the cost of this and any extra's needed to install it against hooking up a suitable calorifier heating up from the engine initially until I hooked up the second element to run off gas.

I could just take the sailaway for a quick up and down spin to heat things and and charge batteries in order to prevent idle running engine ware I suppose.

These are the options im looking at, any thoughts anyone?

[hector1988]

I reckon the instant heater is the cheapest option plus you dont need to make space for a calorifier.

Downside is it will be a Gas unit so will need installation/checking by corgi registered person.

We had a paloma for all our hot water needs on our last boat. The one before had a Calorifier. Depending on the engine and Thermostat opening temp you may get a slow warm up rate, also

if you use the second coil with a back boiler, you might find you acually cool the water back down that

you already heated with the engine by letting the fire burn down. Been there done that.

Paloma takes some beating.

Dave

[Alastair]

Downside is it will be a Gas unit so will need installation/checking by corgi registered person.

 

Not true.

 

This is only necessary in a residence, you can do your own gas work on a boat, caravan etc.

[anthony]

Not true.

 

This is only necessary in a residence, you can do your own gas work on a boat, caravan etc.

 

Ah luckily my brother is a gas fitter

Thanks for the info.

[DHutch]

I would go for thw works really.

- A paloma/morco is essential in my eyes for anyone whos going be staying board while not cruising. There just soooo goood.

- BUt at the same time if you are crusing (which hopefully you will a fair bit of the time?) then free heat from the engine is good too!

 

We have a twin cal and a paloma. With a squiral stove and backboiler powering the unpumped CH system.

 

 

Daniel

[ChrisPy]

I could just take the sailaway for a quick up and down spin to heat things and and charge batteries in order to prevent idle running engine ware I suppose.

'oh, are you off for a cruise today?'

'no, I'm just going to have a shower!' ...................

[Neil Corbett]

We have a calorifier, heated by either the engine or our Eberspacher, and a Morco. So we have experience of when each is best. The calorifier (engine heat) is great when cruising, but you need to use the hot water that evening. By morning it is barely warm. The Eberspacher will warm it up, but costs diesel and takes battery power, so we rarely use it (it also drives three radiators). The Morco is brilliant. Instant hot water at any time, BUT at very low pressure so it's useless for the shower.

[bottle]

Neil

 

Do you have a non-return valve in the engine to calorifier coil.

 

It has been mentioned on here before that a circulation can happen where the calorifier trys to warm the engine.

 

Just a thought.

 

Edit: spelling

Edited October 30, 2007 by bottle

[Breals]

If you want hot water on demand, the instant water heaters for you. They are great for showers - I have a Rinnai unit Canalshopman sold me. The temperature control knob works by slowing down the water as it passes through the unit, but at normal showering temperature the pressure is still better than most domestic showers.

[ChrisPy]

The Morco is brilliant. Instant hot water at any time, BUT at very low pressure so it's useless for the shower.

?? surely the pressure is set by the main water pump, ie 20psi or possibly more (which is lots).

 

I can't find a meaningful guide to Morco heaters, except a specification sheet for the D61 model that said it needs 15mm gas supply

[Neil Corbett]

quote name='chris polley' post='170730' date='Oct 30 2007, 03:24 PM']?? surely the pressure is set by the main water pump, ie 20psi or possibly more (which is lots). I can't find a meaningful guide to Morco heaters, except a specification sheet for the D61 model that said it needs 15mm gas supply

 

No, the water pump supplies the Morco at good pressure, but the Morco restricts the flow so as to give the water time to heat as it passes through. i.e. the pressure drops in the Morco

 

Neil

Edited October 30, 2007 by Neil Corbett

[wonderdust]

quote name='chris polley' post='170730' date='Oct 30 2007, 03:24 PM']?? surely the pressure is set by the main water pump, ie 20psi or possibly more (which is lots). I can't find a meaningful guide to Morco heaters, except a specification sheet for the D61 model that said it needs 15mm gas supply

 

No, the water pump supplies the Morco at good pressure, but the Morco restricts the flow so as to give the water time to heat as it passes through. i.e. the pressure drops in the Morco

 

Neil

 

Does the Morco have a temperature control that lets the water go through the heat exchanger quicker like a Paloma?

[anthony]

Thanks for the replies.

Where do you mount the gas heater?

Im assuming a standard bulkhead isn't heavy enough to fix to?

As far as pressure goes would it be a good idea to have the water heater as close as possible to the shower?

For example have the gas heater in the kitchen then the bathroom next.

Edited October 30, 2007 by anthony

[onthecut]

Hi Anthony

 

If you get either a Paloma or Rinnai, one issue I've come across with them is that the temperature selector will gradually seize in one spot if it doesn't have some exercise. Worth periodically running it right the way through its travel, to keep it free. Other issue is the Paloma, for sure, wont stand frost. Splits if you look at it ! Be absolutely certain to drain it if there is any chance of a sub zero temp. in the boat. As every one says, though, they are super effective bits of kit.

 

Mike.

[Breals]

Anthony

 

Most are mounted to the bulkhead in the kitchen. I don't think the distance to the shower matters (the water pump near the tank will set the water pressure), but usually the shower is fairly near the kitchen anyway.

 

The pressure shouldn't drop too significantly, certainly doesn't on mine. Perhaps Neil's unit is working inefficiently, so he has to select a higher setting (slowing the water rate giving it more time to heat) to get adequately hot water. Or maybe he just likes scaldingly hot showers!

 

Mike is right about draining them in winter when the boat is unattended for a few days. Usually there's a screw in the bottom but in practice you can run off the water through your taps.

[saltysplash]

Like neil we have 3 modes of heating the water. Engine, immersion for when connected to shore and paloma. All three give spanking hot water. Tend to use the immersion for during the day when we are both at home but will use the paloma for early moring showers when getting ready for work so theres no fear of one of us using what has been stored overnight before the other gets in the shower. Mind you, seeing as im the first up why should i worry