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Richard T

Timber to Leicester

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3 minutes ago, BWM said:

This information does not refer to the above picture. 

Surely the boat in the picture is the Chertsey, so it does.

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3 minutes ago, Athy said:

Surely the boat in the picture is the Chertsey, so it does.

Not a chance, for one, the back cabin/engine room/livery did not survive for nearly thirty years in that condition, nor did the undamaged counter bands. I doubt it would be carrying the grand union canal company livery either!

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You are correct it does not apply to either picture Rose Narrowboats asked if anybody knew who was the steerer around that time

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I think we should reflect that this is a reproduction of an approximately 70 year old image captured by the technology of the time. It isn’t an absolute representation of reality - no photograph ever is - and there is almost certainly no means by which the boats can ever be absolutely identified. That’s not to say they won’t ultimately be identified on balance of probability.

 

There is insufficient accuracy to be certain of things like the height of the slide or the spacing between signwritten letters. As far as the latter goes the item onto which those letters are painted is unlikely to be absolutely straight as it will be distorted around the internal framing. That’s the likely reason the letter(s) between the ER and S that may be discernible are not as legible.

 

From what has been observed by contributors so far I would suggest the most likely evidence is that the motor is in GU wartime livery, bears BRITISH WATERWAYS markings and is crewed by a family consisting of father, mother, daughter and son. 

 

JP

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3 hours ago, pete harrison said:

But I keep looking at the name and wonder if it says CHERTSEY ? - which would be too coincidental as CHERTSEY is painted in the Grand Union / British Waterways livery.

 

If this large Woolwich motor is in the Grand Union / British Waterways livery then it can not be BATH, as BATH was sold to the Flixborough Shipping Company in September 1946 - and as you say this is a completely standard large Woolwich motor, slides and all. It did initially cross my mind that this could have been a Flixborough Shipping Company pair but the lettering on the motor does not appear to fit :captain:

One detail whilst not definitive is the centrally mounted headlamp, as they were built with it offset.  I don't know if that would tie up with a particular craft of that era?

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If the photograph was taken by either a local person or a staff photographer and is still available then its possible to have been taken on 120 ( 21/4 x a minum of 2/14 square but can be longer on the width ), 127 or  a press camera usually a Speed Graphic ). If taken with a S.G. 5x4 then a look at the original photo rather than a scanned image may well have the details showing very clearly.

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Well this is jolly exciting - thank you David Mack for alerting me. I've only looked through the thread once and this is my first, possibly ill-informed thoughts, but here goes.

I agree that's almost certainly 'Waterways' ; no way can I make it look like GUCCCo. It's hard though to square that with what does look like three female crew.

There's no particular reason to think that it is Chertsey. Don't be misled by the current colour scheme.  I have no evidence that Chertsey ever was painted like that. On the other hand, I have no photos of Chertsey between 1937 (when that one at Northampton was taken) and about 1963, so anything's possible. It would have to be pre-1960 when the Petter was fitted.

Can we date the men's clothes at all?

Is it significant that the mastboxes and the stands don't seem to be painted?

The motor in particular looks to be in pretty poor repair - does that help date it?

 

My gut feeling is that it's not Chertsey. I'd have a better idea if it was the stern end!

  • Greenie 1

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4 hours ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

Does anyone know who had Chertsey then, and which butties she was paired with? That might rule her in our out.

It is difficult to say who had CHERTSEY then as it has yet to be established when 'then' is. I have several fleet lists and these indicate that large Woolwich motor / large Ricky butty pairings were very common right up to the phasing out and replacement of large Ricky buttys starting in 1959 (several had been transferred to maintenance or sold prior to 1959). With there being 48 large Woolwich motors and 62 large Ricky buttys built this is probably not surprising :captain: 

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21 hours ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

The lining looks like GU wartime livery though, so how many boats were painted in that livery with but with British Waterways on the side?

There is considerable evidence that there were quite a number of former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. that maintained their pre-nationalisation livery but with 'British Waterways' lettering, and I imagine this was concentrated on those boats being docked at the point of nationalisation along with those completed prior to the D. & I.W.E. yellow and blue livery was introduced. I have the docking dates for most (possibly all) former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. of this period but I do not know when the changeover to yellow and blue took place - but I suspect it was autumn 1948 :captain:

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Which could fit with this being a 1940s photograph, as suggested by the Leicester Mercury.

But how long would the boats have remained in this livery? The paintwork on the bows is looking very scruffy, suggesting the picture was taken some significant time after the docking.

Edited by David Mack

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I was wrong about one thing - I do have one photo of Chertsey (identifiable only by health registration no. and counter dents) in BW blue and yellow. Which doesn't help with the current question, I know.

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