Heating questions

[Christine198807]

So me and my Husband are looking at our heating methods and has been told to look at these diesel heaters that you can get on amazon/eBay as they are affordable.

I'm wondering if any one knows anything about installing these heaters on a fiberglass boat with an outboard engine that pass's it's BSS again.

 

We are looking for an affordable method to heat this small boat, trying to not only keep warm but fight condensation as well.

 

We did think electric 700w heater but not sure if a boats could battery could handle that task, i heard 700 watts use about 3amps an hour that battery's can be like 100amps ?.

 

any advice to get a heating system on the cheaper side please ?.

 

[ditchcrawler]

700 Watts is about 60 amps at 12 volts and if its via an inverter nearer 70 amps, your battery would be flat in 20 minutes

[Christine198807]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

700 Watts is about 60 amps at 12 volts and if its via an inverter nearer 70 amps, your battery would be flat in 20 minutes

Thank you that is what I thought , any ideas on these diesel heaters ?.

[Mike Hurley]

There is a Facebook forum all about these Chinese diesel heaters. 100s of campervan/motorhomes are using them, they seem good if installed PROPERLY. They run off 12v as well so you still need to think about battery charging, an outboard is unlikely to give enough charge.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Mike Hurley

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

Thank you that is what I thought , any ideas on these diesel heaters ?.

They are not supplied with the correct fittings for boats - you will need to purchase a 'boat kit' which takes the cost up to virtually the same as a 'proper branded' heater.

One of the main problems is that as they are designed for automotive use the removal of exhaust gas is not a problem, it just 'escapes' out underneath the caravan / vehicle. Not so easy on a boat where it needs to be correctly piped out thru the boat hull. An additional problem with the supplied exhaust is that it has a small hole in it to allow condensation to drip out, again, being inside a boat means that the Co (deadly Carbon Monoxide) gas gets into your boat.

 

Yes they work well if you have them fitted correctly and with the correct marinisation kit.

 

I have a Eberspacher diesel fired hot-air blower system in my GRP boat and it works well. Instant heat and thermostatically controlled so switch it on when we go on the boat and it stays on until we leave.

 

Unfortunately trying to do anything "on the cheap" will mean compromises on either suitability or effectiveness. Something that can be a 'killer' if not done correctly is not an area I'd suggest should be 'done on the cheap'

 

Here is an example of someone trying to do 'a generator' on the cheap ('bodging the exhaust') - he killed his family with Co gas.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34810360

[Chewbacka]

17 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

There is a Facebook forum all about these Chinese diesel heaters. 100s of campervan/motorhomes are using them, they seem good if installed PROPERLY. They run off 12v as well so you still need to think about battery charging, an outboard is unlikely to give enough charge.

My Webasto diesel powered water heater takes about 4amps when running so that needs to be considered if you only have a single battery and an electric fridge.

[Christine198807]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

They are not supplied with the correct fittings for boats - you will need to purchase a 'boat kit' which takes the cost up to virtually the same as a 'proper branded' heater.

One of the main problems is that as they are designed for automotive use the removal of exhaust gas is not a problem, it just 'escapes' out underneath the caravan / vehicle. Not so easy on a boat where it needs to be correctly piped out thru the boat hull. An additional problem with the supplied exhaust is that it has a small hole in it to allow condensation to drip out, again, being inside a boat means that the Co (deadly Carbon Monoxide) gas gets into your boat.

 

Yes they work well if you have them fitted correctly and with the correct marinisation kit.

 

I have a Eberspacher diesel fired hot-air blower system in my GRP boat and it works well. Instant heat and thermostatically controlled so switch it on when we go on the boat and it stays on until we leave.

 

Unfortunately trying to do anything "on the cheap" will mean compromises on either suitability or effectiveness. Something that can be a 'killer' if not done correctly is not an area I'd suggest should be 'done on the cheap'

 

Here is an example of someone trying to do 'a generator' on the cheap ('bodging the exhaust') - he killed his family with Co gas.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34810360

This is very helpful ,we are aware of carbon monoxide so we will always insure that we are safe, if i have to spend a bit more then will do.
I seen some wall mountable solid fuel stoves, just a shame that the exhaust has to go out the top of the boat when it looks so pretty. Saw a kit at around £800 which is reasonable. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Christine198807

[Jim Riley]

I had a Dawncraft 22, I fitted a small pot belly stove, 2 or 3kw in it, worked a treat, up to 25c in a trice, it also pulled air, and its payload of water, out of the boat. 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

This is very helpful across we are aware of carbon monoxide so we will always insure that we are safe, if i have to spend a bit more then will do.
I seen some wall mountable solid fuel stoves, just a shame that the exhaust has to go out the top of the boat when it looks look pretty. Saw a kit at around £800 which is reasonable. 

What sort of shape / size / make of boat do you have ?

[Chewbacka]

2 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

This is very helpful across we are aware of carbon monoxide so we will always insure that we are safe, if i have to spend a bit more then will do.
I seen some wall mountable solid fuel stoves, just a shame that the exhaust has to go out the top of the boat when it looks look pretty. Saw a kit at around £800 which is reasonable. 

If you are thinking solid fuel, this is best practice for fitting one

http://www.soliftec.com/Boat Stoves 1-page.pdf

 

[Christine198807]

15 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

If you are thinking solid fuel, this is best practice for fitting one

http://www.soliftec.com/Boat Stoves 1-page.pdf

 

Perfect Thank you so much, extremely helpful.

I like the idea of the removable chimney when it's not in use such as if we are on the move it can be taken down.

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

What sort of shape / size / make of boat do you have ?

It's a Mayland 20ft.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Christine198807

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

It's a Mayland 20ft.

Hmmm - its not going to be easy to fit heating in there.

 

About 1/3 rd is open 'rear deck' and the rest open plan cabin with not a lot of space - is it the version with the galley & toilet ?

 

I cannot see how you could fit either blown air heating or radiators, or anywhere to actually fit a solid fuel stove.

 

Is your fit out similar to this ?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Christine198807]

27 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

My Webasto diesel powered water heater takes about 4amps when running so that needs to be considered if you only have a single battery and an electric fridge.

At the currently moment my battery is dual purpose but have considered installing a second luxury battery .

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Hmmm - its not going to be easy to fit heating in there.

 

About 1/3 rd is open 'rear deck' and the rest open plan cabin with not a lot of space - presumably is it the version with the galley & toilet ?

 

I cannot see how you could fit either blown air heating or radiators, or anywhere to actually fit a solid fuel stove.

 

 

Looking at a Newport solid fuel heater as it's very small and wall mountable and could fit on the side of the toilet cupboard.

Also looking at changing the middle part of the boat to remove them seating areas and using the bed area as a living/dinning area.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Christine198807

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

At the currently moment my battery is dual purpose but have considered installing a second luxury battery .

Looking at a Newport solid fuel heater as it's very small and wall mountable and could fit on the side of the toilet cupboard.

 

You may be best with something like that, presumably you are carrying petrol for the outboard, so if you are planning a diesel fired system you are going to have to install a diesel tank somewhere.

The vast majority of canal / river boats are diesel engine so having a supply of diesel for a diesel fired heater is not an issue.

[Christine198807]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You may be best with something like that, presumably you are carrying petrol for the outboard, so if you are planning a diesel fired system you are going to have to install a diesel tank somewhere.

The vast majority of canal / river boats are diesel engine so having a supply of diesel for a diesel fired heater is not an issue.

I'm looking at https://www.kuranda.co.uk/dickinson-heating-cooking/dickinson-solid-fuel-heaters/newport-solid-fuel-heater-kit-kmd00-newsf-dickinson?sort=p.price&order=ASC&fbclid=IwAR1x_Gl7qkH1qWAyiibj80UTRXRm0z1P6zZPNwfK7kWyQXMYjv8tZAGr-pA

Yes at the moment we have 13L petrol tank, anti thief devices as well on a 15hp almost new engine that produces about 12amp to the battery.

 

Lucky a small cabin should heat nicely.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Christine198807

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

I'm looking at https://www.kuranda.co.uk/dickinson-heating-cooking/dickinson-solid-fuel-heaters/newport-solid-fuel-heater-kit-kmd00-newsf-dickinson?sort=p.price&order=ASC&fbclid=IwAR1x_Gl7qkH1qWAyiibj80UTRXRm0z1P6zZPNwfK7kWyQXMYjv8tZAGr-pA

Yes at the moment we have 13L petrol tank, anti thief devices as well on a 15hp almost new engine that produces about 12amp to the battery.

 

Lucky a small cabin should heat nicely.

Looks good, but remember it needs a flue length of around 4 feet ABOVE the top of the stove, are you planning to fit is at 'work-top' height ?

[Christine198807]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Looks good, but remember it needs a flue length of around 4 feet ABOVE the top of the stove, are you planning to fit is at 'work-top' height ?

Trying to get it low as possible if we go this route, can't measure until Saturday.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Christine198807

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

Trying to get it low as possible if we go this route, can't measure until Saturday.

Looking at the download it is designed for wood or peat (not solid fuel / smokeless)

 

Don't know it that makes a difference but it would mean storing wood somewhere (lots, compared to smokeless fuel)

 

 

[Christine198807]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Looking at the download it is designed for wood or peat (not solid fuel / smokeless)

 

Don't know it that makes a difference but it would mean storing wood somewhere (lots, compared to smokeless fuel)

 

 

We have quite a bit of room in the cockpit but i do see your point in both space and weight caused by the fuel can be hard to keep dry as well.

 

I have heard of propane/butane heaters but no knowledge on them

Edited November 27, 2019 by Christine198807

[Alan de Enfield]

I fitted a small (3Kw) stove into a 30ft Steel Narrowboat it was tiny with only an 8" grate. You couldn't get 'logs' thru the the door - matchsticks was its limit. It held 11 'lumps' of smokeless from empty to full. The thing to bear in mind is the cost of the flue (extra to the stove price) on our 'pipsqueak' stove the flue  cost about the same as the stove.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

We have quite a bit of room in the cockpit but i do see your point in both space and weight caused by the fuel can be hard to keep dry as well.

 

I have heard of propane/butane heaters but no knowledge on them

NO NO NO don't go down that route.

Unless it is a 'sealed flue' system burning 1 litre of LPG produces 1 litre of water vapour and you are trying to reduce condensation.

[Christine198807]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I fitted a small (3Kw) stove into a 30ft Steel Narrowboat it was tiny with only an 8" grate. You couldn't get 'logs' thru the the door - matchsticks was its limit. It held 11 'lumps' of smokeless from empty to full. The thing to bear in mind is the cost of the flue (extra to the stove price) on our 'pipsqueak' stove the flue  cost about the same as the stove.

 

 

 

NO NO NO don't go down that route.

Unless it is a 'sealed flue' system burning 1 litre of LPG produces 1 litre of water vapour and you are trying to reduce condensation.

It's a good thing you pointed that out but like I said i know nothing about propane heating systems. I could imagine myself asking when did i install a pond in the boat . lol.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

It's a good thing you pointed that out but like I said i know nothing about propane heating systems. I could imagine myself asking when did i install a pond in the boat . lol.

 

By all means - have a look at LPG heating but just make sure that anything is 'room sealed' so the condensation and gases go out thru the flue.

 

Here is one for consideration - you would need to consider getting the hot-air piped from the unit to you cabin.

 

https://www.propexheatsource.co.uk/heaters/hs2000

 

Marine Versions available.

 

Had one of these in our Horse -Box. Lovely to come into warmth after a days cross-country.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Christine198807]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

By all means - have a look at LPG heating but just make sure that anything is 'room sealed' so the condensation and gases go out thru the flue.

 

Here is one for consideration - you would need to consider getting the hot-air piped from the unit to you cabin.

 

https://www.propexheatsource.co.uk/heaters/hs2000

 

Marine Versions available.

 

Had one of these in our Horse -Box. Lovely to come into warmth after a days cross-country.

 

 

So would I have this installed in the cockpit and then say piped through under the kitchen and under the seats then out ?.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Christine198807

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Christine198807 said:

So would I have this installed in the cockpit and then say pipped through under the kitchen and under the seats then out ?.

Yes - it is something like 4" diameter silver corrugated tube, run it thru the bulkhead and have it exiting under the seats. A nice 'grill' built into the bottom of the seat makes it a tidy job.

[Christine198807]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes - it is something like 4" diameter silver corrugated tube, run it thru the bulkhead and have it exiting under the seats. A nice 'grill' built into the bottom of the seat makes it a tidy job.

This sounds quite ideal, what is the current bss laws on propane canisters , I could easy store one in the cockpit but assuming ill need to chain it or something ?.