Gas fridge problems again

[tomandsophie]

Our fridge (Electrolux 3-way, new 2 years ago, rebranded 'Dometic' now) has stopped working properly again. It last happened 2 months ago. After fiddling around with lots of bits, I took it to a nearby caravan shop (Kingswood Caravans in Bristol) to be serviced for £45. When I reinstalled it, it worked better than it ever had done before. They said that the burner jet was all gunked up and they simply cleaned it all out.

Well now it has happened again. Exactly the same as last time. Which makes me think two things:

1. I want to be able to clean it out myself because I'm not paying £45 every time it happens. Anybody give me any pointers?

2. There must be something wrong with my gas supply for it to happen twice in 2 months. What could be wrong with it? Is it possible to get 'dirty gas' - I do get it very cheap from Mole Valley Farmers - only £16.50 for 19kg.

Help!

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Our fridge (Electrolux 3-way, new 2 years ago, rebranded 'Dometic' now) has stopped working properly again. It last happened 2 months ago. After fiddling around with lots of bits, I took it to a nearby caravan shop (Kingswood Caravans in Bristol) to be serviced for £45. When I reinstalled it, it worked better than it ever had done before. They said that the burner jet was all gunked up and they simply cleaned it all out.

Well now it has happened again. Exactly the same as last time. Which makes me think two things:

1. I want to be able to clean it out myself because I'm not paying £45 every time it happens. Anybody give me any pointers?

2. There must be something wrong with my gas supply for it to happen twice in 2 months. What could be wrong with it? Is it possible to get 'dirty gas' - I do get it very cheap from Mole Valley Farmers - only £16.50 for 19kg.

Help!

 

It may be more likely that it's the flue dropping rust and rubbish onto the burner.

 

Please be v careful in considering to do anything to a) the flue and b ) the burner.

 

If you are comptent in the field you'll appreciate that getting the flue in the correct place is cruicial avoid an inefficient combustion at the burner and avoid the potential for CO poisoning (as well as fire from very badly replaced flues)

 

The burner jet dimension is also the crucial for the same CO reason.

 

HTH

Rob@BSS Office

Edited August 13, 2007 by Rob@BSSOffice

[smileypete]

Our fridge (Electrolux 3-way, new 2 years ago, rebranded 'Dometic' now) has stopped working properly again. It last happened 2 months ago. After fiddling around with lots of bits, I took it to a nearby caravan shop (Kingswood Caravans in Bristol) to be serviced for £45. When I reinstalled it, it worked better than it ever had done before. They said that the burner jet was all gunked up and they simply cleaned it all out.

Well now it has happened again. Exactly the same as last time. Which makes me think two things:

1. I want to be able to clean it out myself because I'm not paying £45 every time it happens. Anybody give me any pointers?

2. There must be something wrong with my gas supply for it to happen twice in 2 months. What could be wrong with it? Is it possible to get 'dirty gas' - I do get it very cheap from Mole Valley Farmers - only £16.50 for 19kg.

Help!

 

tomandsophie,

 

Please answer this question:

 

Do you have a working CO alarm in a suitable location near your fridge?

 

cheers,

Pete.

[tomandsophie]

Thanks for your concern Pete, and yes we do have a working CO alarm near the fridge. It's not a worry as the flame is burning blue rather than yellow, but the annoying thing is that the flame is very small and therefore the fridge isn't very cold at all. Evidently it needs a good clean-out, but I am not sure whether or not to do it myself. I am tempted to get somebody in to have a look. Expensive though.

[Machpoint005]

I am tempted to get somebody in to have a look. Expensive though.

I'd rather be skint than dead. I'm sure we all feel the same about those we care about.

 

Ian

[Shazza]

I have with my dual-fuel fridge what sounds like a similar problem to yours. When the boat's previous occupants moved off, they very kindly switched off the fridge and gave everything a good clean. Which was nice, BUT ... I have never been able to get the gas to light, meaning that it's been running on electricity ever since. I'd like to be able to have use of the fridge whilst I'm on the move, rather than having to eat its entire contents (though I'll give that my best shot, of course!!) before I go anywhere.

 

Apparently the problem may be due to a build-up of some sort of residue from the pilot light, but how to get at it in order to clean it?! I can see the little "window" (inside the fridge) where the pilot light should be visible (have even seen it spark on a couple of occasions, but not the past coupla times I've tried to light it) but there's no obvious place to access it.

 

Is this the same problem that the OP refers to? Is servicing the only way to solve it??

[ChrisPy]

http://www.gasrefrigeration.net/dometic_manuals.htm

 

this may be of some help. without prejudice .......................

[John Orentas]

I agree with Rob, every time I have had problems it has been as he described, bits of rubble, rust and stuff falling down the flue and onto the burner jet. Before you start any kind of work buy a new jet, good caravan places will always have them, you can't prick them out or clean them in any other way, a miracle of engineering, the jet is formed from a microscopic 'honeycomb' which you can just see if you have very good eye sight, just replace it and clean the area round about with a small paint brush.

 

The most difficult part of the job is usually getting the fridge out and onto some sort of work-top. Before you re-install it have a good look at the flue arrangements, if it includes a length of rusty old tube think about re-engineering it in some way.The ignition system uses a pizzo type thing which are usually quite reliable, a thermo-couple, not so trouble free goes back to the valve, they don't cost much, you would be advised to buy one of these too.

 

Lighting these things can be a bit of an art, you need to be persistent and if it has been stripped down remember the whole thing must be allowed to re-fill itself with gas. You must also position yourself such that you can see the flame through the little window when it fires up, a good tip, drawn the curtains in that area. Obviously you need to hold the switch 'in' until the flame has established. Like I say you need to be persistent.

Edited August 14, 2007 by John Orentas

[smileypete]

Thanks for your concern Pete, and yes we do have a working CO alarm near the fridge. It's not a worry as the flame is burning blue rather than yellow, but the annoying thing is that the flame is very small and therefore the fridge isn't very cold at all. Evidently it needs a good clean-out, but I am not sure whether or not to do it myself. I am tempted to get somebody in to have a look. Expensive though.

 

Hi,

 

Might be worth getting a can of 'air duster' and giving the area around the jet a good clean. Before doing so give the flue a tap to see if any loosed rust or paint falls out.

 

If the blockage is inside the jet then the only way to fix it may well be to have it serviced again.

 

Maybe worth having a look at the manuals at the links Chris has posted, if you're still not 100% sure whether to do it yourself then get it done for you.

 

If it is a blockage inside the jet I'd stick to Calor from now on.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

EDIT:

 

If the jet is being blocked by impurities from the supply, you could ask the service place to fit an inlet filter, eg part #6143 :

 

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/028.asp

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited August 14, 2007 by smileypete

[Batavia]

We had a similar problem with our Sibir fridge, when it was about 10 yeras old. Cleaning the burner assembly and fitting a new jet would solve the problem for a couple of months, but then the flame would start to die down and become diffiuclt to re-light. We eventually traced the problem to rubbish (damp, fine particulate material) in the pipe from the regulator to the burner assembly.

 

Obviously (with hindsight) disturbing the pipework to fit a new jet would move the rubbish around a bit and allow the gas to flow freely for a while, before it became blocked again. It was only by disassembling the pipework and blowing it all through that the problem came to light. If I had not seen it, I would not have belived it possible for all the rubbish to have accumulated from what one would have assumed to be a clean supply of gas.

 

Fitting a filter to the gas supply would seem to be a very good idea.

 

Chris

[ChrisPy]

I really don't understand where muck can get into a gas supply, unless it is sh*te that was never cleaned out of the supply pipes in the first place. How can a hydrocarbon gas, taken from the top (gas phase) of a storage cylinder, generate solid debris?

[saltysplash]

I really don't understand where muck can get into a gas supply, unless it is sh*te that was never cleaned out of the supply pipes in the first place. How can a hydrocarbon gas, taken from the top (gas phase) of a storage cylinder, generate solid debris?

If i remember rightly our old electrolux in our harbourgh boat, the debris used to drop down from the flue above the burner. Never ever had a problem with it though, crackin little jobbie

I agree with Rob, every time I have had problems it has been as he described, bits of rubble, rust and stuff falling down the flue and onto the burner jet. Before you start any kind of work buy a new jet, good caravan places will always have them, you can't prick them out or clean them in any other way, a miracle of engineering, the jet is formed from a microscopic 'honeycomb' which you can just see if you have very good eye sight, just replace it and clean the area round about with a small paint brush.The most difficult part of the job is usually getting the fridge out and onto some sort of work-top. Before you re-install it have a good look at the flue arrangements, if it includes a length of rusty old tube think about re-engineering it in some way.The ignition system uses a pizzo type thing which are usually quite reliable, a thermo-couple, not so trouble free goes back to the valve, they don't cost much, you would be advised to buy one of these too. Lighting these things can be a bit of an art, you need to be persistent and if it has been stripped down remember the whole thing must be allowed to re-fill itself with gas. You must also position yourself such that you can see the flame through the little window when it fires up, a good tip, drawn the curtains in that area. Obviously you need to hold the switch 'in' until the flame has established. Like I say you need to be persistent.

Forgive me if im being a bit simple but, wouldnt any alteration done to the flue or re-installing a new jet have to be done by a qualified corgie gas type person? Its an unforgiving fuel, like petrol if not treated with the utmost respect. Agree with the lighting instructions, persistance pays off eventually despite the aching digit pressing down on the button

[John Orentas]

Forgive me if im being a bit simple but, wouldnt any alteration done to the flue or re-installing a new jet have to be done by a qualified corgie gas type person?

 

 

Hi Salty.

 

That is certainly what the Corgi men will tell you, (they would wouldn't they) the BSS guide says a 'competent person'. I consider myself to be a competent person.

[Batavia]

I really don't understand where muck can get into a gas supply, unless it is sh*te that was never cleaned out of the supply pipes in the first place. How can a hydrocarbon gas, taken from the top (gas phase) of a storage cylinder, generate solid debris?

 

I have not got a clue! As my day job is designing/commissioning high-cleanliness hydrocarbon systems, I would have been as sceptical as you had I not seen this with my own eyes. The matereial did not look like comissioning debris.

 

The pipe concerned is a thick-walled steel tube, perhaps 2.5 mm bore, and I can only assume that the gas has sufficient residual mositure in it to corrode the inside of the tube to produce a rouge-like substance. In the past, though, I have found a syrup-like substance in low points in LPG lines, which must be some form on condensate from the gas - which as you point out comes from the top of the cylinder and which would be expected to be pure gas phase. All very mysterious - but something which could be worth checking if there is a persistent problem with the free flow of gas.

 

Chris

[saltysplash]

Hi Salty.

 

That is certainly what the Corgi men will tell you, (they would wouldn't they) the BSS guide says a 'competent person'. I consider myself to be a competent person.

 

hi John

Last time i owned a NB there was no BSS, so...would a BSS survey look deep into replacements on a fridge or indeed any gas fitting or just test them that all was ok?

sorry if this seem pedantic but isnt it the law that it should be the queens welsh doggies that do the work and not just the corgi registered chappies suggesting it?

 

How is Royton by the way? is the sally army still there? My old man was the Envoy there for a time before moving to middleton

[John Orentas]

hi John

Last time i owned a NB there was no BSS, so...would a BSS survey look deep into replacements on a fridge or indeed any gas fitting or just test them that all was ok?

sorry if this seem pedantic but isnt it the law that it should be the queens welsh doggies that do the work and not just the corgi registered chappies suggesting it?

 

How is Royton by the way? is the sally army still there? My old man was the Envoy there for a time before moving to middleton

 

 

Hi Salty.

 

The BS inspectors are rightly concerned mainly with the safety of gas systems, to this end they will tend to do visual inspections of the installation and will leak test the system, my bloke uses nothing other than a Manometer and has no faith in other methods and I tend to agree with him, there is zero allowance for leakage. That done I doubt if any will delve into the innards of the appliances but he does check for flame colour in a worst case scenario.

 

The Corgi thing is a bit confusing, as I understand it they have somehow managed to attain their monopoly situation for houses and other permanent dwellings so presumably if you live on your boat you would be required to allow one of them to poke about on your boat. Just how they have acquired this elevated status I don't know, they were called 'Gas fitters' in my day.

 

Royton is OK, you may not recognise the place now though. No idea about the Sally army I am afraid I don't move in those circles. They used to rattle a collecting box under your nose every Saturday night in the pubs at one time but I haven't seen them for years.

[ChrisPy]

I have not got a clue! As my day job is designing/commissioning high-cleanliness hydrocarbon systems, I would have been as sceptical as you had I not seen this with my own eyes. The matereial did not look like comissioning debris.

 

The pipe concerned is a thick-walled steel tube, perhaps 2.5 mm bore, and I can only assume that the gas has sufficient residual mositure in it to corrode the inside of the tube to produce a rouge-like substance. In the past, though, I have found a syrup-like substance in low points in LPG lines, which must be some form on condensate from the gas - which as you point out comes from the top of the cylinder and which would be expected to be pure gas phase. All very mysterious - but something which could be worth checking if there is a persistent problem with the free flow of gas.

 

Chris

well we shouldn't get any corrosion products in copper pipes, assuming the moisture is just pure water vapour contained in the gas as an impurity.

 

as for condensate - yes we have experience of gas/condensate lines when handling raw natural gas but I would have expected all that to have disappeared by the time it is refined into propane/butane.

 

food for thought ................

[Tony Brooks]

We had a similar problem with our Sibir fridge, when it was about 10 yeras old. Cleaning the burner assembly and fitting a new jet would solve the problem for a couple of months, but then the flame would start to die down and become diffiuclt to re-light. We eventually traced the problem to rubbish (damp, fine particulate material) in the pipe from the regulator to the burner assembly.

 

Obviously (with hindsight) disturbing the pipework to fit a new jet would move the rubbish around a bit and allow the gas to flow freely for a while, before it became blocked again. It was only by disassembling the pipework and blowing it all through that the problem came to light. If I had not seen it, I would not have belived it possible for all the rubbish to have accumulated from what one would have assumed to be a clean supply of gas.

 

Fitting a filter to the gas supply would seem to be a very good idea.

 

Chris

 

 

In the 60s we had problems with some boat gas appliances were the manufacturer had fitted a filter in an extended "hexagon" that a was part of the input coupling. On occasion we had either dust or liquid blockages here.

 

WE solved it by removing the filter - it was like a cigarette filter tip thing.

 

Tony Brooks

[Batavia]

In the 60s we had problems with some boat gas appliances were the manufacturer had fitted a filter in an extended "hexagon" that a was part of the input coupling. On occasion we had either dust or liquid blockages here.

 

WE solved it by removing the filter - it was like a cigarette filter tip thing.

 

Tony Brooks

 

 

But at least if there is a filter, you know where to start looking for a blockage......!

 

Chris

[mayalld]

Forgive me if im being a bit simple but, wouldnt any alteration done to the flue or re-installing a new jet have to be done by a qualified corgie gas type person?

 

No.

 

That is a myth put about by corgi gas type people to keep them in a job.

 

Anybody you employ to work on your gas has to be CORGI.

 

You can do "own account" work without registration.

[tomandsophie]

Just an update - a very nice man called Mark Loveday (a BSS inspector) came round to have a look. He cleaned out the burner and jet and now it works perfectly again. Hooray!

I guess now it's just a waiting game to see if it gets blocked again...