GRPCruiserman

I'd apply in a shot, but I live in Lancashire (bit far to commute).

I may be being scynical, but does anyone not think that BW had commited to not 'increasing' the basic rate of licence fees this year, so they had a meeting to decide how they could increase the licence fee without actually advertising the fact, and that these changes are simply to facilitate this? Why dont they just say right, it's £1 per foot per month however you pay; whatever term your licence is. Then 40 foot boat= £40 per month, which could be paid at your local office over the counter, direct debit, whatever. A 10 foot boat (one of mine is) would cost £10 and you could use it for a month if you want, when you want. A 60 footer would cost £60 but you would be better off anyway if you can afford to buy a 60 footer. No need to display a licence because it's all on computer anyway (so they tell us) so scrap the requirement to display one, but if you haven't paid, you are not licenced. You can have a receipt if you want if paying over the counter, and direct debit is proof by way of your bank statement, so if challenged you have proof of licence. This would also solve any problems for livaboards (addresses etc) as they could pay as they went wherever they happened to be at a BW local office (which should be on the canal!!). It would also solve licence disc issues. Simple and easy, and it's the boat that's licenced not the owner. Obviously proof of insurance and BSC could either be registered with BW on their computer or shown when buying the licence.

They are probably the ones I'm thinking of. Being breasted up for me meant I was always on the outside (smallest boat!!) so I suppose I never had any issues coming and going, but at one of my old regular moorings it was just how it was so to be there (loved it!!) it was acceptable. Could imagine an inside mooring being a bit more hassle I suppose. As for being on a linear mooring, I have always prefered them to marinas. Apart from the cost, you get to see everyone going past and in my 20 odd years when I kept a boat on the canal my permenant mooring was always a farm based linear one in the middle of no-where. It's off-side location, on site farmer, and secure parking in the farmyard made it as safe as anywhere and with it being a long way from the nearest town that helped with security too. We had water in the farm yard but no other services (you had to carry it down to the boat in a water container!! but that was never a hassle. I was very happy there with lovely views out of the cabin across the field, instead of a neighbour's boat on the jetty next to me. On the Aire and Calder you have the added attaction of passing commercial traffic. Don't discount them, but go on your gut instinct when viewing; if you're not happy then walk away, you have to leave a lot of money sat there. I was always happy with my mooring from first viewing. The only trouble I had was with a Mink once that took up residence one winter; but a PIR operated alarm soon shifted him!!

The breasted up boats may have been their hire fleet on turn-a-round day. In any cse I've moored alongside others on various occasions and if it's where you want to be then it's no issue. If you fancy the Lemonroyd area, there used to be some towpath moorings (and offside I think??) at Castleford which is a 'safe' (from a flood point of view) section of the river and gives you a few cruising options as you are right by the junction with the arm that leads to the Calder and Hebble and the main Air and Calder. I have a feeling there were some moorings at the next lock downriver too at Ferrybridge but I may be wrong, Ferrybridge is just off the motorway. There is another mooring length towards you from there before you get to the junction with the New Junction Canal possibley at Pollington Lock?? Anyone with more local knowledge may know better. I think there are various on line moorings between Lemonroyd and Leeds too. There are usually moorings near Stanley Ferry too which is a lovely area (on line near the pub but also a couple of locks down) on the Calder and Hebble arm of the Aire and Calder. I moored at Stanley Ferry for a while and enjoyed it. Left a car there for three weeks free of charge when boat shuffling. Again, it's very near the motorway for commuting home but not too near for noise issues. A drive around with a copy of Nicholsons (or other guides!!) is always useful when looking for moorings, or even a cruise in a day boat (with licence of course!!) can find you all sorts of obscure but beautiful (sometimes) and often reasonably priced moorings.

I moored there for a while, cracking marina, really enjoyed it there. I'd stick to 57 foot too as The Calder and Hebble is very beautiful and it would be a shame to loose out on that stretch. It also gives easy access to the Rochdale Canal which is also great and now The Huddersfield Narrow Canal. I would 'loose' that 3 foot gladly for easy and safe lock use.

If the 'prompt payment' discount is scrapped, then everyone who pays on time either before or exactly on the date pays the advertised fee, whereas everyone who pays after the date pays an additional £150. WITH prompt payment, everyone who pays on time or exactly on the day gets the discount, whereas everyone who paid after the date paid the full fee. Therefore, the licence fee has gone up to the value of the full fee plus £150 with a £150 prompt payment discount. All this is is a large increase in all licence fees, especially those who pay later than the due date. This is supposed to be a relaxing leisure exercise using the canals, not a beaurocratic nightmare that it has become. The canals are there for everyone (or should be). I wonder how much it would add to every citizen in the country's council tax if ll canal licences were issued for a nominal fee (like on Windermere - £5) then the amount received by BW from licence fees were split between every council tax payer in the country? (extra grant in aid). It may only be pence but then it would give them paid right to use the towpath as they get for free now. Anyone got any figures?

I once shared it with a narrow boat full of inexperienced hirers in my 15 foot FAME Concorde plastic boat. They didn't speak English and didn't know what they were doing. Very scarey and just shows how strong a GRP boat cal be when suddenly clouted by a large steel narrow boat!!

I used to love it, never missed an episode right the way through. Had boats in it so had to be good; the bad acting, sets etc was irrelevant!! I fancied Abbey, though, does that make me wierd??

This is true, if I had a Norman Conquest!. I suppose this is what I am doing with my dayboats now, plus they don't require storage costs as we couldn't keep a Norman Conquest at home, they are pretty big when on a trailer. They are not the lightest of boats to launch/recover either and I'm not the fittest of people to do the job! One day I may be able to afford a canal boat again; probaly a Norman Conquest, I do miss the canals, perhaps if i get a better job at some point but they are a bit thin on the ground too!! In the meantime I'll continue to work in retail and run my dayboats. The four stroke Hondas were better on fuel than the two strokes, I currently have a one year old 4 stroke 2.5hp Suzuki which runs all day on next to nothing. The problem with all this is that I'd still struggle to get to many parts of the canal system, including Skipton as the lack of slipways is becoming a real bind. They keep closing them, or making them non-user usable like Cowling Brow slipway which used to be free and usable by anyone with a handcuff key. They've now changed the lock for a non-user openable one and now charge £20 to send a BW employee to open the gate for you to use it; and that's £20 each way so £40 for a day's cruising. Galgate slipway is now closed at week-ends and is chargable, whereas in the past it was actually owned privately (before being sold to BW) and only cost £2 both ways and was open 7 days a week. There is a free slipway at Carnforth but it is becoming increasingly difficult to use as people insist on parking across the access point which was hard fought for when the pub was built over the old sanitary station as they originally blocked the slipway completely with a crash barrier. There is also no longer a BW car park (again given over to the pub) to leave car and trailer in so you have to park on the road. Skipton for me is now a no-go area due to slipways, not yobs!! The loss of Gargrave slipway was a big blow in this respect.

Yep, you are right, but at the moment I use it on a pay-as-you-go basis where the canals are concerned and mainly use tidal rivers which are free and free slipways so it only costs the petrol and if the wind is right, sailing is free!! Accomodation for 5 if puching it on a small cabin cruiser though (my family has grown since the Yeoman 16 days!!). A Norman 20 Conquest would be ideal and it's still looking at £1000 a year minimum. In answer to the engine on the Dawncraft it had 4 over the 3 years we had it, a Honda 10, a Honda 15, a Mariner 20 2 stroke, and ended up with an Evinrude 8 (don't ask why!!). Obviously the Hondas were better but still nly got about 5-6mpg with all up. The Evinrude being the thirstiest at 4mpg at best.

Good question!! The boats I have now are all open trailboats, so they are not suitable for sleeping on; but because they are open trailboats they are all BSC exempt, only require day/explorer licences, and cost £32 per year to insure all three for any use including full tidal with no restrictions. Also we had a full day on one for less than a gallon of petrol, wheras the Dawncraft my wife used to have would use that much in 4 miles!! It's not the sleeping itself, it's the size of boat that costs less. If there was still a slipway at Gargrave, I probably would go to Skipton, but they closed it an filled it in, and the only ones on that stretch now are at Bingley which is a push to Skipton and back in a day, and Silsden which is awkward as the guy has a hire fleet to run and very little parking. Skipton is a little difficult for day boating now.

(Would love to buy your Shetland but skint, sorry!!) Anyway: 1) 8foot Fibrocell Dinghy (aged 9). 2) 1942s Wooden 10.5 foot sailing dinghy (unknown class (still own it and sail it ))(aged 11). 3) Valiant 18 Sailing Cruiser (tidal only!!) 4) FAME Concorde 15 (canal: 6hp, tidal use 25hp 30mph (still got the 6hp)) 5) Norman 20 with 20hp engine. 6) Yeoman 16 with same 20hp engine. 7) Suzumar Inflatable Dinghy with 8hp engine originally, now only 4/2.5hp. 8) GP14 Sailing Dinghy (love it!!) 9) Mirror Dinghy 10) Glen-L Squirt speed boat 11) Unknown type Sailing Dinghy 12) 8foot Dinghy unknown make Use of (Parents!!): 1) Fletcher Arrow 13 (speed boat) with 40hp Johnson (approx 1959 vintage). 2) Fletcher 15 foot (speed boat) with 50hp Mercury outboard. 3) Broom Saturn 15 foot Speed Boat with 55hp Johnson Outboard. 4) Valiant 18 Sailing Cruiser (not the one I owned, a different one!!) 5) Mirror Dinghy (not the one I owned, a different one!!) 6) 7.5foot GRP Dinghy 7) Shetland Suntrip with 60hp Suzuki Outboard. 8) Ballaton 26foot Sailing Cruiser 9) Achilles 24 Sailing Cruiser (very fast!!) Use of (Wife's!!): 1) Dawncraft 25. Funny, it seems like you've had loads but there don't seem to be so many when you list them!!

Do others not think that this is partly due to the average age of a boater increasing? When I was on the canal in my 20s there were quite a number of boaters around my age group and groups of louts would have thought twice about taking on boaters, especially if a few of us were moored. I am now in my mid forties and I am still one of the youngest I know who boat on the canals (and even I don't much now, and never sleep on board due to cost increases). This average age increase, I believe is due to the increase in boating costs. However, an older person is perceived as a 'softer' target (not always the case!); and as more boaters are now older, they may be being targetted more. Also, with boats becoming fancier and clearly more expensive than before, I feel an element of jealousy on the ypbs' part plays it's part in provoking the situation, whereas when boats were scruffier (as mine always were!!) then they weren't seen as much of a luxury item, and hat jealousy was more questions like: 'Do you live on it?' 'How much did it cost?' (usual answer: Less than your Playstation) brought things to more of a level. Jealousy was killed instantly. Narrowboats clearly cost more than Playstations, but my last canal boat only cost me £100 (plus some work!!) so I wasn't telling fibs. I used to love staying in Skipton and never had any issues.

Be OK on the canal, just wrong on the road.

I was thinking more of the type of boat I started in; 15-18 foot long, cheap to run, lowest length band for licence (they could make the bottom band the same price as the 'explorer' licence was, around £80?? More 'on line' moorings to keep costs down, ie no facilities on the moorings etc, at reduced rates for starter boats. Stop scrapping all boats of this size when they are section 8'd, but refurbish them and sell them for around the £1000 mark, or nothing if un-refurbished. You can still buy a 15 foot brand new fishing boat with a cuddy for around £2000, so surely it wouldn't cost much more to extend the cuddy and put a door on it. Owners could then fit the boat out themselves as they wished. Just a few ideas. 35-40 foot is a big boat!!

Is this not just a reflection of the stagnant (no pun intended) state of the encouragement for new canal use. When I started using canals I was a 'young' user, being in my 20s I was one of the youngest boat owners on the canal that I knew. I am now 45 and I am still one of the youngest boat owners on the canal; and I can no longer afford to keep a boat on the canal. I personally don't think these issues are entirely recession based, but are more a reflection of the lack of understanding of what is required by the authorities to keep the canals alive: encouragement of the use of the canals by boats by making it affordable to all, not just the well off who have already got their boats. The caravan industry is thriving; with brand new ways of constructing caravans being research/developed and put in to production. Yes, we lost a few companies at the beginning of the rcesson, but the remaining ones are reporting big business as people scrap their foreign holidays and stay at home. The canal industry should be making the most of the weak pound and it's holiday effects and promote the use of canals for holidays in this country. The authorities should be encouraging the use of 'starter' boats on the canals and the holidays that can be had on them. Caravans can still be picked up for a few hundred pounds and are being; and many of those owners go on to spend tens of thousands of pounds on caravans when they have the money. The authorities have systematically removed all possibility of cheap boating from every conceivable angle over the last ten years always sighting 'licence abuse' as the reason, ie if you don't have money then you are not honest enough to pay a licence. There are many old cars on the road (mine included) but I, and many others, would not dream of driving without insurance, road tax, or MOT; so this arguement just doesn't wash. Yes there are uninsured drivers, but there are always those who will break the law, from murder, drug dealers, etc down to uninsured drivers and people who dont pay their canal licence. To jeapordise the whole future of the canal system just to stamp out those few who flout the law is short sighted and over heavy handed; and clearly only decided upon by those who haven't used the canal system on a regular basis. The whole culture of the early/mid 1990s when the canal boom was at it's best has disappeared under a sea of democracy and enforcement above all else making the canal a beaurocratic and heavily handed patrolled highway instead of a place to get way from it all and relax. When I got my first boat on the canal there was a week of the month I bought it to run before the next month and I was instructed by BW that it wouldn't matter about that week, they'd just issue my licence from the local office from the beginning of the next month; can you imagine BW saying that today?? It was all very relaxed and had an air of calm, much like the canal. Now it's all call centres and uniformed, heavy handed, enforcement officers out to deliberately catch you out for being moored within 10cms too close to the minimum permitted distance from a bridge (beleive me, I've seen them with a tape measure and fixed penalty notice). The authorities should be promoting the canal as somewhere to take a cheap holiday at home away from the distractions of everyday life and stress; that way people would enjoy the canal as they did ten/fifteen years ago, and would be encouraged to be a boat owner and as they prospered would buy bigger and newer boats, causing the demand for them that would keep the struggling boat building industry alive.

I think anyone who used any boat uninsured would be very foolish; where I usually boat there is no legal requirement for insurance but all my boats are fully insured. I agree insurance should be compulsory on the canals, but my boats do not have BSC as they are all exempt. I would imagine they would pass though, if tested. Windermere has a requirement for insurance and registration at £5 per year, but no BSC requirement at all. There are other various boating lakes/reservoirs etc which require insurance but no licence. Incidentally, you could still make it a requirement for a day licence to be held therefore requiring BW's sight of insurance but keep the fee at zero provided it was applied for on line. I think say, ten free day licences per year would be great, with maybe the next ten attracting a nominal fee of £2 increasing after that to stop everyone just applying for 365 day licences would be a good move. The first free ones could include use of a BW slipway too to encourage their use. (I appreciate this may cause some management problems as not all BW slipways are open at weekends). I am a licenced Radio Amateur and my licence is now free as long as I 'validate' it every few years on line, but a licence is still required which I had to work very hard to acheive.

I have just read that BW are scrapping the superb 'Waterway Explorer' licence this year as it is: 'too difficult to enforce'. In an age when they should be encouraging new boaters to the waterways in line with the 'waterways for all' strategy they claim to be promoting; it would seem rediculous to scrap the only affordable, regular use licence there is. I have two trailboats and no way could I afford the 'on the water' charges of these expensive days of licence and mooring permits; nor would I want to leave my trailboats in the water anyway. So that leaves me three options: 1) Pay a yearly licence at great expense for the 14 or 15 days I will use the boat (or had intended to) on the canal this year. 2) Buy day licences at £10 a go, costing £150 odd. 3) Don't use the canals and do all my boating on other waterways. The competition is certainly cheaper, with most local rivers being licence free (and free slipways too mostly); the lake District being alomost licence free (£5 a year for Windermere), and makes (3) the most likely option. I see this as another nail in the coffin of the non-rich, non-shiney-narrowboater's use of the canal system. It may be waterways for all; as long as you don't wish to float on the canal unless you are very rich; you can walk or cycle, or even fish, as long as you only want to watch rich, shiney, boaters. As for being too dificult to 'enforce' perhaps this could be extended to other 'policing' work; ie some roads are difficult to stop people speeding on, so lets forget the technology of speed cameras, or perhaps Police Officers? No, lets just close the roads affected to all but those whose cars will only travel at less than the speed limit. It's difficult to enforce the law that prevents husbands from battering their wives, so lets ban man and wife living together, It is certainly difficult to enforce laws surrounding poor children being hurt by their evil relatives, so lets ban children. These are extreme examples, and some may say they cannot be compared, and it may be sick to do so, and I agree with regards to their severity and place in the overall scheme of things; but surely the Police will continue to TRY and enforce the law wherever they can, and must (quite rightly) continue to advance in methods and technology at whatever cost to prevent such horrible crimes. I am just using the examples to highlight the ridicule of the 'enforcement' statement. BW should be looking from that angle; make it compulsory to display licences and licence numbers (if it is not already??) and police the licence issue effectively. 'Enforcement Difficulties' therefore are no excuse for removing a licence enjoyed by 300 boaters a year and probably force most of them off the waterways for good. It would be interesting to know exactly how many people abuse these licences; and would those people surely quite happily just NOT buy a licence that is unenforceable anyway? BW have certainly by this admission encouraged people to use the canal on a day launch basis without the purchase of the aforementioned licence. I was told by a BW official when thelicence was first launched in 1993 or therabouts when it was £50 a year that this would be the way to start people and encourage them to use the waterways and that there would be no more slipway closures. Recently the number of slipways closing has reduced; but is this a way of BW saying that 'no one uses them now, we sell very few day licences' so they can close more slipways? Certainly they could not whilst the explorer licence was on offer. The cost of day licences was £2 a day when I started trailboating in about 1993; and I did progress as a result to having a boat moored on the canal permenantly. I never personally spent more than £1000 on a boat, but they were always licenced appropriately, had a mooring, and all mooring permits, insurance, and when it came in, all had BSC. It was only the rising costs a few years ago that forced me off and back down the trail boat route. Now this is to be made more difficult and expensive. The major organisations don't seem to have fought this in any way; but BW have just thrown away (probably the majority) of 300 customers, which may only be £2400 a year now, but the potential for canal users of the future is being erroded further. Just another nail in the coffin from an organisation that sees it's charge (the canals) now as a theme park of shiney boats to be viewed by the unclean masses from the towpath only; run by non-boaters who just simply don't understand the canal community and what it is (or probably was these days). Are the canals a national asset, or just a theme park? If they are a national asset then why do only the rich have acces to the floatation upon them.

I have stayed in Skipton many times, and gone shopping, left the boat for hours, slept on it, and never had an issue. It's like anywhere else, you are lucky or unlucky. If you worry about being cast adrift, chain it to a ring. I think there are much worse places than Skipton and it's such a nice town. On a festival weekend there's safety in numbers anyway and the chances of anything happening are pretty remote. It's always a good weekend, but usually rains!! Go for it.

Here here!! Always used to annoy me when they were miles apart and I had a 15 foot boat, always ended up using a mooring pin!! Seems strange to have so many near a narrow bit though.

A mooring pin across the knees usually puts them off trying it again.

My favourite mooring on this stretch is on the lock mooring for the bottom (disused) of the two small Appley Bridge locks. You go down the (BIG) in-use lock then about 100 yards on your right (offside) you'll see it by the bottom disused lock. It is so quiet and peaceful (except for the odd train which are pretty quiet and finish before you go to sleep) and you get a lovely view across the valley with the solitude of being on the offside. You also feel rather wierd being moored on a lock mooring as you can't normally do this overnight, and especially as the lock isn't usable; an on-foot exploration of the often-empty pound is essential. Parbold is also good (shops, chippy, etc), and just before you get to the top of th Rufford flight is good too (permanent moorings really but BW never seemed to mind if you go on an empty one near the swing bridge). There used to be a hidden shower which was a cracker behind the sanitary station but last time I was there they'd closed it (good shower further down the Rufford arm though, between Rufford and Tarleton). Rufford is a good place to moor, but wait until you are after the trees as it's much quieter and prettier. Tarleton itself is a good mooring spot but a bit noisy during the day as it's next to an industrial estate but all goes quiet after 6 and there are some really good shops a very short walk away. For extended leaving of the boat the boatyard is wonderful; a real traditional, old fashioned boatyard (but with electric now!!) and great, friendly, VERY knowledgable people. If you are doing the 'Link' and have a flat bottomed boat, I'd recomend an overnight at Hesketh Bank boatyard on the tidal river. You dry out and are awoken when the tide comes in in the middle of the night as you lift off the ground on the pontoon; but it saves the hard push on an early (tidal wise) start from Tarleton and heed the advice you are given by Harry at the yardl he DOES know everything there is to be known about the river and also you may have some fun convincing BW what you want to do; and make sure you can handle your boat well as getting in to the pontoons' inside can be tricky. They charge a nightly rate but it is very small. It is a lovely and very interesting place to stay and quite unique. Don't worry about being 'stuck' on The Lancaster; I used to keep my boat on there and come off each year for holidays etc; and always went back. In my view it is the most beautiful canal in this area; and there are many safe places to leave your boat unattended for the odd week; in fact it's easier to say where not to leave it. You'd get a semi-prermenant mooring somewhere on there for the winter with no problems. Glasson Dock is a must if you visit The Lancaster. Yes the locks are hard work but it's the best cul-de-sac I know of on the canal system up here; very interesting with loads of history and interest for all. Also Tewitfield locks and the Northern Reaches are a good walk up from the current head of navigation, but stay at the picnic area just down from the top; it's much quieter than the very top. En route up the Lancaster; 'Old Nells' at Billsborrow is a good place to leave your boat for the week; handy for the motorway etc, but you must visit Garstang, Galgate, Lancaster, Hest Bank, and stay a night in the eerie Capernwray arm and savour the errie echos of birds sqarking around the old quarry in the silence. Have fun, it's well worth the beauocracy and hassle of getting up 'The Link'.

Dont know much about inboards, but the two stroke's I used to have used to run flat out for hours, ie my Mariner (Mercury) 20hp went from Keadby to West Stockworth, then West Stockworth to Cromwell flat out no issues, and the same on the way back, and did the Ribble Link every year (sometimes more) plus had a few blasts on Windermere too (before the 10mph speed limit came in). It ran for ten years without so much as a hiccup and just always started on the key instantly every time. I used to have a lot of Mark 2 Escorts and they ran on their 4 speed gearboxes (with lower profile tyres on standard wheel for faster lights acceleration) at about 4500 rpm at 70mph. I went all over in mine, Birmingham, The Lakes regularly, towed big trailers with them, in fact pretty hammered them and none ever broke down; ever!! Didn't bother even changing the oil in them as I only ran them for about 20-30000 miles each and the only ever cost about £200 a go. They have the same engine the old Freemans have in so if you want hammerability, that's the engine to go for. As I understand it diesels are more sturdy than petrols, and taxis get pretty hammered don't they, so I would have thought the odd forray on tidal waters on a boat shouldn't present too many issues.

One word: Scotland. I am actually of Scottish origin (although not born there), as is partly my (now) wife. We went up there, very little fuss, very little paperwork, didn't need to live there any time period, cost about £20 (plus functions etc), all round an absolute doddle. You need to go up less than three months before your date to register that you are to be married (we went up twice to organise premesis etc); then you must return the 'schedule' (like a certificate) to the local registery office within a certain time after (can't remember the time period; we took it the day after). Good place for a honeymoon too, we went off in to the highlands. No questions were asked about residence or anything. Also it has to be a religious ceremony anywhere but in a registery office and a registrar can only marry you in the registery office, but you can get married anywhere; not necessarily at an address, so it could be by a Loch, in a hotel, on top of a mountain, or in a lay by if you want!! It must be conducted by a religious man though, but there are many 'mobile' vicars etc who will do it for you for a small donation to their church. Look in to it, it's very easy and suited us.

We once had a few Pizzas delivered to the top of the staircase on the Llangollen from Whitchurch. Very nice they were too. MMMmmmm.