agg221

There are two legitimate approaches. 1. Rent a mooring so you can stay in one location. 2. Continuously cruise, in which case you don't need a mooring because you are not staying in one area. Other approaches are currently used to bend/break the principles behind these rules but, with an increasing shortage of cash, it looks highly likely that CRT will make it increasingly expensive not to just rent a mooring. Alec

You may well be lucky on that one. If the pulleys have only got surface rust from slightly salt laden condensation then although it won't look pretty it should be fairly even. That means so long as there hasn't been too much loss of section, you will probably end up with the rust gradually cleaning off the running surfaces by itself. The other surfaces would of course need manual intervention to clean them - however tempting it may be, don't wrap sandpaper round them whilst running to clean them as it can grab and damage your extremities, although pushing a piece of paper against it from one side is perfectly normal practice, so long as there is nothing to catch yourself on whilst doing so. If it doubt, double-sided taping a piece of paper to the end of a batten is pretty effective. Alec

Thanks Dave. I don't know Dave Parrot - is it connected with Matt? If so, I have indirect links I can pick up through (a friend now owns The King). If not, how do I find him? Alec

An old thread, but eight years on I wondered who is still active who might be able to make what I am looking for. I am looking for a traditional rivetted chimney (black finish, rolled top, brass fittings etc) but twin walled and made in stainless. Essentially similar to that which @Ray T has posted a picture of above in this thread, or the work of Mike Pinnock - South Island Marina. However, having spoken to the latter they no longer make them and although I have approached Simon Wain I am aware that he may not wish to still do it (it's certainly not something Brinklow are advertising). So, is there anyone else who is still making such things? Cheers Alec

I read the original, unredacted post by Lloyd Chandler with particular note. The point of threads like this is that when something goes wrong it is useful to understand what happened and why, not just superficially but over several levels because it can both help educate those who are unaware and identify particular features which may every now and again throw up something new. I for example always stand clear of the tiller arc, but am sometimes guilty of being lazy about leaving the stern rope on the dolly. Threads like this remind me not to be. The specifics of this incident are relevant. Not to repeat that which has been redacted, but I have the impression that the stern of the boat in question may have been against the offside bank on the Staffs & Worcs. If so, this isn't the first time that something odd has happened there - another boat we were travelling with has had the tiller unexpectedly wrenched round when making that turn, so hard that it jammed hard over and had to be wrestled back into place once we had hauled the boat into the narrows. I have nearly jammed the counter under part of the offside bank myself. In both cases, this was making the turn onto the SU from southbound on the S&W, so a particularly tight turn which uses the whole width of the canal. I mention this because, whilst we can all try to improve our practice, if there is an unseen hazard at a particular location this might be something else which would benefit from addressing. Alec

Longwood would have been particularly challenging this year. I wondered about Titford Pools (except we can't actually get in there) or do the BCNS still have the pump house at the top of the locks? Or Smethwick Pump House? Alec

We were discussing this en-route. Need to talk to @Richard Fairhurst The past two years the finish has been pretty central - no more than a few hours to head off the BCN via whichever direction. I know this year we and Ferrous had to head off and last year there were at least three boats which did. I think it may be an important factor to have somewhere of that nature now that the aim is to get to the finish (if you go back far enough, it wasn't, but it is probably better this way). Pelsall for example is a nice location but I suspect you would lose a few competitors that way. Alec

Glad to hear it's all working properly. Your incantation didn't send the fuel demons in my direction did it? I have just spent an hour playing with the lift pump on the Midget and am about to head out there again. Runs fine on fuel poured into the carb float bowls but not pulling anything through from the tank. Alec

I was using 'modern' to mean purpose built for leisure so the choice was open on a blank canvas when the shell was built, rather than a converted working boat where the back cabin and engine room would be there already* and removing them would require effort. I recognise that now spans over 50yrs though. Alec *Except on a Severner

The engine room and back cabin do seem to be viewed as 'like to have' rather than 'must have' features on modern boats and hence generally added to longer ones. My point was that it can physically be done. There is a question I generally end up asking myself, about how much of what I am paying for is a feature, how much is a benefit and how long am I prepared to wait until something is how I want it. Essentially, if I wanted a 60ft boat with certain features, I could wait until one turns up, buy a 60ft boat and do a partial refit to get it how I wanted it, buy a shorter boat and add in the section to make it how I wanted it (and then fit that out) or buy a longer boat and chop out the section(s) I didn't want. Or I could compromise, on time, money or specification. All of these are quite flexible options with the budget and skills the OP has available which changes the equation somewhat over the more usual question that crops up on here of buying a rotted out project boat and naively hoping the hull will hold itself together. Alec

Steve Hudson or Brinklow Boat Services (Dave Ross)? What do you think of this one? https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/steve-hudson-60-traditional-for-sale/730340 Alec

It can be done. We have all the above with the exception of a fixed double, in 38' including a tug deck which is about the equivalent length of a well deck. Because Oates is narrow the back cabin is extra long, as is the engine room. With a more conventional shaped boat I think you could get all those requirements in to a 45' boat if you really needed to. More length would of course make it considerably easier. Given that the OP is up to taking on a reasonable amount of work, wonder whether buying something longer and having it shortened would be an option. The points against this would be the cost of the work and making good but if you found a layout which otherwise works but has a length that can be shortened (say a long saloon) and can take on the stripping back and making good then it may open up more options? Alec

Although I have steered Song of the Waterways before, I haven't crewed her for any length of time before last weekend's BCN Challenge. She draws 2'9" static, so a bit less than Oates (3'1"). We went round the Wyrley & Essington and the Walsall, so definitely the lesser used end of the network, shallow in part and quite a bit of weed, although nothing like as bad as on last year's Challenge, even on the Main Line. Two of the crew were running app-based speed measurements which were reasonably consistent with one another. We know that on a deep, clear stretch of canal such as the northern SU we would be doing 3.5mph, 3mph on the southern section. On the W&E we were mostly doing 2.5-2.6mph which produced a prop wash which looked like a folded in trail with almost no splash. If the speed dropped to 2.2-2.3mph it was worth checking the wash. There were conditions where the wash would start to splay slightly wider and if that corresponded with kicking up silt or rotting weed then we were fine - it was a sign that the channel had got shallower and was only just deeper than the boat. Only if we started to get wash out from the side of the prop was it worth checking for fouling. The only place where we felt significant drop in speed due to channel depth was on the Walsall near the entrance to the Bradley Locks branch. There you could feel it pushing the silt. Alec

In case I have been unclear on this - the nuts should be firm, not gorilla tight. You need to be confident that they will not undo but equally you don't need to crush anything. The particular point I was making was that if you do take the studs out, you don't need to re-fit them any tighter than hand tight as the nuts will still lock in place. You can then easily take them out again if you ever need to again. Normally you aim to lock the studs in place (with a pair of lock nuts) as the purpose of using studs and nuts is that you don't wear the thread in the block when changing components. When the outer thread finally gets worn or damaged you can replace the stud and the thread will then not need moving for decades. However, on an engine of this age and with this particular part, the odds are that you wouldn't need to take it out for decades anyway so you won't end up with excessive wear on the thread in the block, in contrast to, say, a fuel filter or other service component. Alec

Having now checked, the engine I am familiar with is not a BMC B series but a Triumph SC. I thought it was based on the same block but it turns out it isn't. The early Midgets did use the A series BMC but the later ones used the Triumph SC rather than the B series which, although they share many common design features, are not duplicates and the comments on pump arm length may well therefore not apply as it may be an idiosyncrasy of the Triumph design. On this, two different versions were definitely used as I had to change one for the other but that probably won't matter to the OP. Alec

Two more bits of information which may come in useful. Firstly - your lift pump is held on nuts and studs which makes it even more difficult to wiggle out. One option if the threads are in decent condition is to buy a few half nuts. If you aren't familiar with these, they are half the thickness of a normal nut, usually used as locknuts. A pair of half nuts screwed on and done up tight against each other so that they lock on the thread can be used to remove the stud (put the spanner on the innermost nut to undo it against the other nut). This will give you more wiggle room to get the pump out. Refitting is easy - either use a bolt, or studs do not actually need to be tight in the hole so screw in by hand and then screw the nut down on top. There is a good reason why studs and nuts are used rather than bolts, but in practice it won't make any relevant difference here. Secondly - if this is the lift pump I think it is then it is common to the 1500 block as fitted to the Triumph Spitfire and the later MG Midget, which is where I have encountered it. There are two different lengths of arm on the older ones and the newer ones. It is not usually possible to get the shorter armed type so you are supplied with an adaptor block to put between the pump and the block so that you can use the longer armed type. If you do manage to get the pump off I would check whether that applies in your case. If so, you may also need to change the studs for longer ones (we had to on the Midget). I am not familiar with the diesel version of this engine so Tony, please correct me if this does not actually apply. Alec

Was a good weekend crewing Song of the Waterways. It isn't either a boat or a crew designed to win so we were very happy with that score. Highlights were making it up the Cannock Extension and to Anglesey, mooring in Bloxwich at midnight (see picture for our high quality quick-release approach for that rapid getaway in the morning), making it off the Gower branch at 1:58 (couldn't have cut that finer) and reaching the finish to at least get the 3pm bonus score. Less pleasant were the three tyres round the prop and the Rushall closure meaning we had to do the Walsall which is an hour longer, hence not finishing on time. There is a really annoying short stretch of the Tame Valley which I have still never boated in consequence. We comfortably made Wolverhampton Top on Sunday evening and got Song back to the planned location on Monday in time to drive up to the back end of the Langley Mill festival and see @tom_c's large collection of Kelvins. Have to decide which boat to use next year. Alec

It was a good BCN Challenge with a surprisingly good result for us, given that we are neither a boat nor a crew optimised to score highly. Paint at its simplest consists of a pigment suspended in a resin. The pigment is solid particles and the resin starts off liquid and solidifies around these as the film dries/hardens. Therefore, unlike a dry stone wall where the space around the stones is a void, in paint the space is filled with a resin. A coffee and walnut cake made with an awful lot of walnuts might be a better analogy, where the walnuts are the pigment and the cake mix is the resin. Once cooked (hardened) if you dunk it in your tea it will soak it up, but that all goes into the sponge part, not the walnut particles. The closer you pack the particles together, ie higher pigment loading, the harder it is for the water to soak through. However, there is a practical limit to how high a loading you can add as above a certain point it won't flow properly, and beyond that there would come a point where there wasn't enough sponge to fill the gaps around the walnuts, at which point it would have holes so would become less effective to add more particles. To a point, you can make it still flow by adding more water, but you then have to evaporate it out again and if the particle loading is high, that gets increasingly difficult so you hit a practical limit of drying time. There are many choices of resin and pigment. Resins solidify either by evaporation of the solvent or by chemical reaction, or by both in turn. Paints which simply dry are usually much less effective, but the resin is cheaper. At the opposite end of the scale you have a 100% solids resin which hardens by chemical curing, very much the same as Araldite epoxy resin (because it is essentially the same thing). All organic materials are permeable to oxygen and water vapour to a greater or lesser extent, but stronger chemical bonds, greater levels of densification and not having any solvent to evaporate out produces a much less permeable film. Add in better bonding to the metal surface so there is no undercutting (where eventually the paint falls off in sheets due to the rust spreading underneath) and you have a much higher performance paint. However, different resins also have different price points and those which chemically cure are mostly two pack so have to be mixed thoroughly in about the right ratio and, once mixed, have a pot life before they cure. This means epoxies are not always the best option where some of the other parameters are more important. The pigments also have several functions. They provide a barrier but they also give colour and can directly add corrosion protection (e.g. zinc phosphate). Many pigments are more expensive than the resin so generally cheap paints have low pigment loadings, making them less effective barriers and also often needing more coats. Inorganic/mineral pigments give very good colour stability but many are particularly expensive and some are toxic. The exceptions are carbon black and iron oxide (rust) which are cheap but a poor barrier. The main pigment is titanium dioxide which is stable and a good barrier and white. It also has very high colour opacity so fewer, thinner coats are required for colour coverage. Titanium dioxide is white so colour is then added via the resin instead, but that is organic colour and hence less stable so gradually fades. Zinc pigments are more expensive so are not added to cheap paint but are to expensive, better quality paint. Alec

Apologies for the delayed reply. The BCN Challenge lies between your post and this answer. There is no unequivocal answer to this but the options as to why zinc phosphate works are very nicely set out in the introduction to this paper: Yawei Shao, Cao Jia, Guozhe Meng, Tao Zhang, Fuhui Wang, The role of a zinc phosphate pigment in the corrosion of scratched epoxy-coated steel, Corrosion Science, Volume 51, Issue 2, 2009, Pages 371-379, ISSN 0010-938X, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.corsci.2008.11.015. (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010938X08004964) 'Generally, inhibitive pigments are introduced into organic coatings as the main substance for corrosion inhibition. For this purpose, zinc phosphate is commonly used because it is known as a green pigment in contrary to toxic pigments like chromate pigments [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]. But there are many arguments on the roles of zinc phosphate pigment in the corrosion process of coatings in the literatures. For the first, some authors [6], [7], [8], [9], [10] revealed that the action mechanism of zinc phosphate was the phosphatisation of the iron surface and the formation of compounds with carboxyl and hydroxyl groups of the binder agent. For the second, del Amo [11] and Beiro [12] et al. believed that the addition of zinc phosphate to the paints leads to a clear improvement of their barrier function. Furthermore, Rossenbeck [13], [14] revealed that zinc phosphates improve the barrier properties and Zn-hydroxides, phosphates absorbed on the iron surface can inhibit the cathodic de-adhesion process at the interface. However, Zubielewicz [5] and Bastos [15] considered that zinc phosphate neither acted in compliance with electrochemical mechanism nor improved the barrier function of the binder, and they further believed that the addition of zinc phosphate did not exhibit any positive effect on the corrosion performance of the coatings.' Personally, I think the protective role of zinc plating is a reasonably good analogy. Zinc plating acts as a barrier but if it is breached it provides protection to the steel as a sacrificial anode. However, the zinc plating also naturally oxidises so it has a finite life which is reduced if the environment is more aggressive (salt corrosion for example) or extended if a barrier is applied over the top, such as chromating (which you should not do any more) or paint (disregarding the poor adhesion without preparation). The equivalent effect with zinc phosphate appears to be a combination of reaction with exposed iron, forming a barrier at the interface with the steel and an element of self-healing where because the zinc phosphate does not 'go off' it remains available to form a reactive zinc/iron phosphate barrier layer when the iron is exposed. However, if instead it reacts with the atmosphere it is 'consumed', so its barrier properties are used up by chemical reaction with the atmosphere and it no longer provides protection. That would be the case whether the zinc phosphate primer was applied directly to bare steel, immediately forming the reaction product, or applied over a pre-treated surface to remain available to react with any iron which was subsequently exposed either through mechanical damage or chemical degradation. Either way, if moisture permeates through the primer then the positive effect of the zinc phosphate is quickly 'used up' whereas if it is topcoated, it provides long term protection against the much slower ingress of water through the topcoat, either through permeation or through defects. Hope that makes sense. Alec

Lots of things have been covered already, but a few others to add. Tixall Wide is wide enough that you can turn the boat easily. That means if you do the ring one way you will naturally approach it and the other way you can detour down to it and turn round. It's a very peaceful spot if you want to stay on board on the last evening. The moorings opposite the junction at the end of the Birmingham and Fazeley on to the Coventry are useful if you need to walk down to the supermarket in Tamworth. If you find yourself with extra time and decide to come up the Stourbridge then a detour down the Dudley No.2 to Hawne Basin is particularly interesting for Gosty Hill Tunnel and the remains of the Coombeswood Tube Works (if you are interested in the history of the canals, not just the scenery). If you come up the Wolverhampton 21 and end up mooring at the top lock, Wolverhampton art gallery (free) is well worth a look if you enjoy such things. Less than a ten minute walk. If you do moor there, don't be surprised if you end up having a conversation with a homeless person. There is a shelter just over the other side of the main road and there are often a few people about. I have found them nothing but friendly and perhaps short of a bit of human conversation. Certainly not a reason to avoid mooring there. If you come up through Wolverhampton and head for Birmingham then you have some choices of route (and no, I am not going to suggest that you go via the Wyrley and Essington on your first trip that way!) Both the old main line and new main line are options and where you connect between them is also a choice. Personally, I find the old main line much more interesting and not much slower as it is deep and doesn't have toll islands on it. You also get an interesting view of the Netherton tunnel as you cross the approach on the aqueduct, and you get to go along under the M5 which, whilst not pretty, is certainly different. Do allow for a bit of extra time when you get to Fradley. If the junction is at all busy then it can take a while with the merging of boats in the middle of the flight. It's a nice route, with some lovely scenery, particularly on the Staffs & Worcs, and some signs of the industrial heritage which the canals were based on. Should be a good trip! Alec

'Zinc rich' has two meanings. One is high loadings of zinc metal powder, in a paint such as Galvafroid or Zinga which provide galvanic protection. For this to work you need direct contact between the steel and the paint, so it won't work over rust or a layer of Vactan. The other meaning is high loadings of zinc phosphate pigment which is a very good barrier against oxygen and moisture. This is the type you would want to apply over Vactan. Alec

Hopefully with added asbestos? Alec

I've gone over to goat chains and go-kart tyre fenders. The fenders are lighter and easier to position than an equivalent diameter rope fender and on the Shroppie the thickness helps (particularly when the side of your boat really isn't straight at all!) They also dry much faster so I don't end up with soggy fender marks all over my roof - personal preference as I accept that on the downside they do not add to the traditional aesthetic of the boat. For reasons I can't explain, I regularly forgot to collect piling hooks after use. I never forget a mooring spike or a goat chain. The chains also have the advantage of naturally packing small in whatever space is available in the locker whereas the pins had to be positioned. Just ended up suiting us better. Like you, the general preference is to moor to the most solid thing CRT has provided for the purpose, so we will compromise on positioning. I haven't yet got my 12V jackhammer to install mooring pins at convenient points in the Shroppie shelf. Alec

The shallowest point last year that we found was the narrows just before the two branches split near the pools. In fact, it was so shallow that there was no way we were getting through and that was at normal level. The wide section near the derelict building wasn't very deep and produced a particularly high yield of saris. Alec

Oates is an odd boat in respect of this discussion. On a relatively deep stretch it is very fast. The question was asked earlier about what is the fastest you have gone - I am not going to declare that but suffice to say it was probably a smidge over 4mph (we can break fairly thick ice at 4mph...) However, it draws a surprisingly large amount so on a shallow stretch or through a bridge hole it will suddenly slow right up. This can confuse people, but we aren't generally being followed as we are faster on the deep stretches. I don't think we have ever held anyone up at locks either - the crew is not the most efficient, but it does know what it is doing and most roles are interchangeable, including steering between three of us at least. Where we run into problems following very slow boats is that we do need to run to a bit of a timetable and there are consequences if we don't. We might go out for a weekend, or up to a week but at the end we have to get back as the children have school and my wife and I have work. It's not optional. We will have contingency built in, but not enough for an extra day. On the last day, we might plan to cruise for 6hrs and would be OK if that became 8. From the bottom of Audlem to our mooring is normally 3.5hrs. We are fine if that becomes 4.5hrs and OK if that becomes 5hrs (and the world won't fall apart if it's longer) but when, for example, the person on the boat ahead of you decides that he won't bother doing the locks because you can do them for him while he stands chatting to the two guests on his boat, that is galling. On one occasion, the four of us worked both our boat and the two boats ahead of us up the flight - that's pushing it. If we didn't get the boat back, someone would face a long walk to the car, followed by a 3hr drive back the following weekend, boat it back and another long walk back to pick up the car and drive it 3hrs home. It's not a trivial consequence. If somebody has chosen a slow dawdle through the countryside then there is no reason they shouldn't have one, but the impact of adding more than about 3hrs to our journey is that we will still be driving home at midnight with work the next day, when they are comfortably moored up for the night. Everyone should be free to enjoy their boating the way they want to, but not at the expense of others who may have different needs. Alec