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Funnily enough, since I fitted the hand start I have only used the starter motor twice. Both, on two consecutive days, were because I had an issue with the hand start which I think I have now solved. The first was just after disconnecting the starting chain because the lower sprocket was binding, and the second was because I ran with the top off the gearbox to check it was no longer binding. All good for the day, now back together, back to hand starting! VSR? Alec

Thanks - 50-70mm is where I have been guessing. Cable run is about 1.5m by the time is has fed through the relay. If the engine is sufficiently seized that I am feeding full current into the motor then I have bigger problems! Alec

Having now established that the issue with our starter motor was that it is a 24V starter rather than 12V, I now need to make some changes. The options appear to be to fit a second starter battery or to fit a 12V starter motor. My preference is for the latter as I would rather avoid the complexity on the electrical side, and I have a very restricted space for starter batteries and would rather not try to find a model which fits two in. I do have a 12V CAV BS5 starter motor which is untested but either should work or could be reconditioned. The question is therefore over the wiring. In theory, this starter motor can draw 930A, and I have a 900CCA battery. However, looking at the cable dimensions required this seems extreme. In reality I don't think the engine is capable of taking anything like that current to turn it (that equates to 15hp, which is nearly as much as the engine!) so I need some practical experience from people with similar sized engines about starter cable cross-section. The same starter motor is used on the Lister JP2, the Kelvin J and K and various Gardners to my knowledge, so it would be useful to know what size cable others have fitted. Thanks Alec

A very belated update to this thread - I now know what the problem is. The starter motor is not 12V, it is 24V. The very large battery was not being called on for current but rather for surface charge and it needed all of it, which is why it dropped off so quickly. Unfortunately there is no externally visible difference between the 12V and 24V starter motors, so when the maker's plate is missing you can't tell. We tried adding a temporary second battery and it worked perfectly. Now need to make some changes, but that's a subject for a new thread. Alec

No Jerry cans involved. Ours is connected to the main tank with a semi-rotary manual pump, in the engine room right under the day tank, so a perfectly suitable operation to perform in one's slippers. Refilling takes no more than a couple of minutes. Our day tank is about 2 gallons which will do a normal day but not a very long day (probably about 12hrs of normal running). We tend to top up around lunch time, at the same time as checking the drip oilers. In many respects, ours is the polar opposite of Ian's boat. This is based on personal preference - I like things I can fix (or at least lash up) when they go wrong and I am better at doing that with mechanical systems. There are times when I am alone on the boat when I don't turn on the battery isolator. Alec

I had a look today- coming on well. Alec

I particularly like the Icebreaking painting - as you may have spotted, ice boats are my particular subject of interest. I have a painting of a collection of moored up ice boats by Garth Allen which he did specifically for me from memory, together with the story that goes with it. Alec

A couple of thoughts. If you grab the top of the engine (not running) and push/pull it back and forth, side to side and on bothe the diagonals then if you feel it moving in any of those directions it is loose on the engine mounts. It could have rubber mounts or be bolted solid to the bed. If the latter it is easy to tighten it up and will make a big difference. Otherwise it’s new rubber mounts. If it is currently mounted solid then adding rubber mounts would make it quieter but may need some work to adjust the height. Starter not catching. This is unlikely to be an issue with the starter motor itself as it is spinning properly; more likely to be one of position. The engine will naturally come to rest against the compression stroke - one simple option is to manually rotate it back before starting (by hand using the flywheel). If you take it back as far as it will go before you get to compression then you will both be using a different spot on the flywheel and when it catches the engine will pick up a bit of speed before going over compression which will take a bit of load off the starter motor if you are not using the decompression valve for the same purpose. Alec

To reiterate and slightly expand on Alan's comment above. With the engine switched off and the gearbox in neutral, if you open up the weed hatch and turn the prop by hand, what can you see rotating? If everything rotates back to and including the shaft into the gearbox then nothing has sheared right off. If you then try putting it into gear in forwards and try the same thing, does it get really difficult to turn? If so, can you see the flywheel on the engine moving (you are not trying to turn it over, just check everything is solidly locked together and moves in the right direction)? Then try the same again in reverse. If everything works then you should have drive in forwards and reverse. Next, I would CLOSE THE WEEDHATCH and start the engine and, with the deck boards up so you can see what happens, try engaging first forwards and then reverse and see if everything is OK. Watch for whether everything is rotating as it should, and whether anything moves forwards or backwards (engine on its mounts, or the shaft relative to the gearbox). If yes, you have an indication of where the problem lies, if no then for now everything is OK. At that point I would carry on, taking it gently. I would engage reverse early and aim to stop just inside the bottom gates, as you have plenty of space then for the boat to stop if you lose reverse. You don't have too many more locks to go for a while, so if it works in forwards you should be able to get to somewhere that someone can take a look at it. The centre of Market Drayton is not too far and once you are up Adderley you won't need reverse again for a while. Alec

Unless you are going to start doing a lot of tapping of holes, any tap will do for a few holes in cast iron. The fact that the screw turned before it snapped suggests it isn't that stuck - I would be inclined to file it flat if it isn't already, then buy a M5 taper tap and a cheap drill set - that often works out cheaper than the individual drill bits. You need 3mm, 3.5mm, 4mm and ideally I tend to use 4.2mm for tapping M5. The tap will have a taper point on the end. Once the sheared off end is smooth, find the centre, position the point on the end of the tap on the centre and tap the other end with a hammer. It needs to be a sharp tap, not a heavy blow. This will leave a dot mark that the drill bit will run true on. Personally, I am of the drill straight through and tap with a single taper tap mentality, but if you want to do it just from one side you will need a second tap, and I would go for high speed steel, rather than carbon steel. Either way, if you drill on the centre, keeping it square, you can start with the 3mm drill, then step up in increments until you just break through the thread. The odds are you will not be perfectly centred, but once you have broken the thread it can usually be picked out or drifted out with a small diameter rod (old screwdriver sharpened to a point) which will then get the thread clear. If you are going straight through then at this point you put the final size tapping drill through, then the taper tap. Use lubricant (oil) and take a half turn forwards, full turn back etc to keep breaking the chips. Take the tap right out periodically to clear the tap and the hole. If you are trying to re-tap the hole without breaking through then it's the same as the above but much more frequent clearance (3mm drill bit down the hole with a magnet on the other end is very handy for cleaning it out - once you have pulled it out, take the magnet off and the chips fall off the drill bit - repeat until clear). If single sided, you will then need to tap the hole with a bottoming tap. These also often have a point on the end which means you can't get as deep as you want. Cutting or grinding the end off the tap (which then doesn't have to be a bottoming tap) until you get the full thread form right the way to the end is often the easiest option. If you are only tapping one hole ever then you can get away with doing this to the taper tap you started with, but personally I would go for one of each. Grinding back a carbon steel tap without ruining the heat treatment is near impossible, but you can pretty much do what you like to a high speed steel tap which is one of the main advantages. I have recovered many castings with snapped off, corroded studs and screws in them - take your time and it will work fine. You have not ruined the door! Alec

Cheers, I am waiting to see the final outcome but everything so far has sounded very positive, in that this is a decent company to deal with. The friend in question has a boat in the general area and will need to dock it for blacking shortly. There are a few other things which would benefit from being done at the same time, hence the interest. Alec

Thanks - missed that. Looks like a good place to use. Not very near me, but pretty convenient for a friend based in that area. Alec

One request - when you have taken possession of your boat and have headed off into the sunset so to speak, would you mind naming the marina which has sorted it out for you. It's the kind of recommendation from experience which is really useful to have (assuming it continues to the conclusion in the same vein as their service to date seems to have been from your description). Places which do things well deserve to be well known, for mutual benefit. Alec

About the only thing which is likely to is a very high solids aluminium loaded epoxy. However, this is very expensive and not very available (you can buy it, but you have to know exactly where and what to ask for). For most paint systems that are easily available the best you can do is apply it, then a few years later scrape back the rust, leave the good, apply again. Over time you gradually end up getting it all to last fairly well as you progressively deal with the areas where the prep was inadequate. Alec

If you are planning on spending some time exploring the BCN, can I suggest heading off the New Main Line, which is very straight and not very interesting. A few things which might appeal as ideas: Head down through Netherton Tunnel. The south side is surprisingly green and pleasant. Whilst there, if you have time, head off left down the Dudley No.2 to experience Gosty Hill Tunnel (yes, your boat does fit, but at times you will think it isn't going to!) and on to Hawne Basin, through the remains of Coombeswood Tube Works. If you have time, heading along the Wyrley and Essington makes an interesting alternative to the main line. You would need to join it either by heading down the Birmingham and Fazeley/Tame Valley/Rushall or up the Walsall. The former would allow you to head up to Anglesey Basin which is an extremely peaceful spot whereas the latter gives you a sense of the old BCN as you pass through Ryder's Green locks. Even if you just pass straight through, I would choose the Old Main Line in preference to the New Main Line - much more interesting. You could also stop at the Black Country Museum. Whichever way you go, the BCN has a whole lot more to offer than the extremely dull straight through route of the New Main Line! Alec

Recently bought after many years in the Smedleys' ownership. The cabin was very tatty and the new owner needed to get a quick coat of paint on it. He is well aware it was never a Matty's boat, but that was the quickest and easiest colour scheme to go for until he gets the cabin sorted out properly. Alec

The good news is that there aren't too many people out there who rebuild vintage starter motors, and those who do are generally pretty good, so there is an excellent chance that they will send back what is needed, whether it is the original rebuilt or an exchange unit. If it's the wrong handed starter you will know that pretty much immediately, so it will still sit with the marina to rectify and, given their approach so far as you have described it, I would be very surprised if they didn't continue to work with you to resolve the issue. I am anticipating that you end up with a decent engine, at least good enough to give you time to fettle it and decide what to do. It's pretty small and light, so would be fairly easy to take out one winter and give it a thorough clean and repaint, with the opportunity to measure various things and check for wear while you are at it, but I doubt it will cause too many problems if you don't. Alec p.s. I have not yet managed to get my J2 to run backwards, although I have switched over to diesel pretty early on some occasions!

Given that you are planning to run an old engine, you might find a tube of Wellseal to be a good investment. It will deal with leaking gaskets until you can replace them - water, oil and diesel. Alec

Make sure you buy the right type of paint rollers. Ordinary B&Q ones will disintegrate. We used Rota Solvent Resistant Roller Sleeves from Toolstation - other outlets and brands available. Alec

Something else to bear in mind with this engine is that many of the wearing parts may be interchangeable with others from different engines, or at least close enough that they can be adapted. Bearings, pistons, liners (if fitted) are possible, roller bearings and gears in the gearbox are almost certain. You are unlikely to find much off the shelf, but if you don't have any immediate problems and run a regular search for spares on Ebay and Facebook you stand a good chance of building up a few bits, and if you find out dimensions for the other parts they may well be possible to source. Have you seen the blueprint on Ebay? Alec

I think it depends on how far you are stripping back anyway and what you use as a paint system. A coat of surface tolerant epoxy will do a good job for an extremely long time whereas cheap gloss over the top of the rust and you might as well not bother. Alec

I did attempt to answer that question for you... Alec

Not sure if you would regard our boat as 'traditional' or 'proper' but it's certainly old. We have pipe and go-kart side fenders and a synthetic manila bow fender. The stern fenders are gradually disintegrating and once they give up they will be replaced with synthetic manila ones. The bow fender is a V one. I don't care whether it is traditional - it fits properly and does not shift around like the previous plain button did. Supplier was A J Fenders - I am a very happy customer as communication and service was excellent and the quality is good. I picked up in person and had a very pleasant chat and a decent cup of tea. They are made on site (not reselling someone else's) and hence can make pretty much any custom length or shape you may want. Alec

It isn't essential, but sometimes it's just quicker. When the rust is only breaking through a decent layer of paint due to scrapes or having been cut back for fittings then touching in is easy, but when it's rusting because the original coat is thin, in the end trying to find and deal with every rust spot takes longer than just rubbing down, treating and painting the whole thing. You could probably do an adequate job of rubbing down, treating and painting the whole interior in a weekend (use rollers for most of it and brushes round the edges). Alec

Starter motor - if it spins up but does not engage it could be the axial position is off relative to the ring gear and it needs sliding up or down a bit. This can be critical, as some of the starter motors of this era have a two stage current - low to extend and engage them and only near the fully extended position do you get full current to turn the engine. You would need to look up whether this the case for yours and what the position should be. Big old CAV starter motors such as this are not inherently expensive to have or service, but they do require more hunting around. Getting it overhauled by someone with all the necessary parts in the first instance would probably be advisable. In the meantime, figure out what else they fit on and keep an eye out for a spare listed as the starter motor for that. I have a BS5. On the Kelvin J2 they are moderately expensive (£350 or so outright sale) but the same starter motor fits a pre-war Bentley and if advertised as such it is usually around £2000. However, it also has other applications and I have picked up a couple of spares of the correct voltage and rotation for around £40-60 each. The pinion, which is the part that wears, also fits the U6 and I picked one up that way which was advertised as for a Gardner. This can make quite a saving. Alec