a new set off batteries

[swift1894]

Just got a new set of batteries 4 x 180Ah

Can someone remind me where I can find the info I read about a while back, about conditioning new batteries so the acid could penetrate into the plates.

Thanks

Edited July 11, 2012 by swift1894

[deletedaccount]

er whatnow?

[bottle]

New one on me.

 

I suppose you could connect them to a three stage charger and get them to 'float', that way you would know they are fully charged when fitted and any monitoring equipment could be set.

[Richard10002]

New one on me.

 

I suppose you could connect them to a three stage charger and get them to 'float', that way you would know they are fully charged when fitted and any monitoring equipment could be set.

 

Does float mean full? Or does it mean that particular chargers absorption phase programme has completed?

 

On my Sterling, absorption is 10 times the bulk period, with a 1 hour minimum, and a 4 hour maximum.

[smileypete]

Just got a new set of batteries 4 x 180Ah

Can someone remind me where I can find the info I read about a while back, about conditioning new batteries so the acid could penetrate into the plates.

Thanks

If they're non sealed ones just charge them up then make a permanent note of where they're topped up to. And if you have a hydrometer, give them a FULL charge if possible then check and write down the SGs (specific gravity) for each battery.

 

The best way to ensure a reasonably healthy lead acid batt is fully charged, is to charge up to the right 'absorption voltage'* until current drops to a tiny amount, usually 1/50th of the batt capacity.

 

*For bog standard non sealed leisure batts this is about 14.4V at room temperature.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[swift1894]

New one on me.

 

 

It was a battery company's site ( possibly American) and outlined the complaints that customers made regarding the early failure of their batteries to which one of the company's answers was along the lines "Did you condition the new batteries?"

to which the customer's reply was along the lines "Er......What?" Then it went into how to "condition" the new batteries.

But I've read so many articles on batteries the last 2 weeks I can't remember where this one is on the web.

[bottle]

Yes it means full.

 

EDIT: see post #5.

[bizzard]

If the batteries were stored dry charged for a period of time,which you won't know unless you ask,its wise to give em a good trickle charge for about 12 to 24 hrs before using, do it anyway whether dry charged or not as it could have been standing in stock for donkey's years. Any old trickle charger of around 4amps will do this, but keep an eye on it,and top up after charging in case any electrolite has boiled away,very doubtful with a small trickle charger though. It won't go off bang or anything.

Bizzard, the undercharged Lechlanche cell technologist.

[swift1894]

If they're non sealed ones just charge them up then make a permanent note of where they're topped up to. And if you have a hydrometer, give them a FULL charge if possible then check and write down the SGs (specific gravity) for each battery.

 

The best way to ensure a reasonably healthy lead acid batt is fully charged, is to charge up to the right 'absorption voltage'* until current drops to a tiny amount, usually 1/50th of the batt capacity.

 

*For bog standard non sealed leisure batts this is about 14.4V at room temperature.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Thanks Pete...........They are non sealed (I won't be going back to sealed after all I've read!!!)

But this article was about charging/discharging to certain levels for the first 5 or 6 times to give the batteries the best start in to their operating life.

If I manage to find it I'll post it.

It was very much in the style of Gibbo and Sterling (which I like) ie you may not like these facts but tough, that's the way it is.

 

Just got a new set of batteries 4 x 180Ah

Can someone remind me where I can find the info I read about a while back, about conditioning new batteries so the acid could penetrate into the plates.

Thanks

 

Found it!

 

http://www.amplepower.com/primer/testbat/index.html

 

So what does everyone think?

[Richard10002]

Yes it means full.

 

EDIT: see post #5.

 

Is that:

 

"Yes it means full" EDIT "No it doesn't mean full" ?

 

After an hour of absorption, when it reverts to float, I can turn my charger off and on, and it will always do another minimum hour of absorption, (i.e. fixed max voltage). I can do this a few times before the Amps drawn by the batteries get down to 7A, whic is about 2% of my 330Ah bank.

 

I don't think float necessarily means full.

 

Happy to stand corrected, but the above is how it seems to me?

Edited July 12, 2012 by Richard10002

[bizzard]

I'm sulphated, i can't absorb all this.

[bottle]

Richard

 

Your batteries are full(y) charged when the charge amperage goes down to, as Smileypete says a very small number, ie 1/50 of bank Amp.Hrs, (330 amp.hr bank @ 6.6 amps) so allowing for instrument inaccuracy 7 amps means they are fully charged.

 

You have an 'intelligent' charger and it is doing 'adaptive' charging and according to Gibbo adaptive charging does not work.

 

I don't think float necessarily means full.

 

In your case, as with many others, you are correct.

[Richard10002]

 

You have an 'intelligent' charger and it is doing 'adaptive' charging and according to Gibbo adaptive charging does not work.

 

I don't think float necessarily means full.

 

In your case, as with many others, you are correct.

 

So..... In some cases float does mean full, (or as good as full). What kind of charger is it when float means as good as full?

 

My understanding is that whatever the charging regime, we probably need to float for a couple of days to be sure our batteries are full...... Hence the current popularity of "small" solar panels in the absence of a permanent mains supply.

 

Alternatively, we can turn everything off, let the batteries rest for several hours, (6+ ?), then, if the voltage is above say 12.7V, they are full.

 

Or we can measure specific gravity.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Richard10002

[bottle]

 

My understanding is that whatever the charging regime, we probably need to float for a couple of days to be sure our batteries are full...... Hence the current popularity of "small" solar panels in the absence of a permanent mains supply.

 

Yes but in my case, liveaboard (CCing) that is impossible

[deletedaccount]

I've had a set of vinces batteries for 2 1/2 years now and they're starting to show their age. Down to 11.4 the other day. Doh.

 

Would love some more.

[smileypete]

So what does everyone think?

There's also a mention of it here:

 

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_care_maint.html

 

I don't think you HAVE to cycle them, it's just that it takes a few cycles to get full capacity and best performance at high loads.

 

But it seems to be more applicable to deep cycle batts, leisure batts are somewhat like a starting batt, so should be fine from the get-go.

 

If you want 100% perfection, it might need the perfect method of doing things in every way. BUT if some basic background knowledge and maintenance will get 85% of the way, why chase the other 15%?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[swift1894]

There's also a mention of it here:

 

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_care_maint.html

 

I don't think you HAVE to cycle them, it's just that it takes a few cycles to get full capacity and best performance at high loads.

 

But it seems to be more applicable to deep cycle batts, leisure batts are somewhat like a starting batt, so should be fine from the get-go.

 

If you want 100% perfection, it might need the perfect method of doing things in every way. BUT if some basic background knowledge and maintenance will get 85% of the way, why chase the other 15%?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

That site advises ....."batteries should not be discharged below 80% of their rated capacity"

 

Discuss

[smileypete]

That site advises ....."batteries should not be discharged below 80% of their rated capacity"

 

Discuss

I think they mean 80% Depth of Discharge (DoD). They've got a link to a chart of cycle life vs. DoD for their batts:

 

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_images/cycle_life.xls.pdf

 

But for leisure batts, around about 50% seems best, but the odd deeper discharge isn't a big deal.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited July 12, 2012 by smileypete

[bottle]

That site advises ....."batteries should not be discharged below 80% of their rated capacity"

 

Discuss

 

Pedant on:

 

What it actually says is:

 

" For the best battery life, batteries should not be discharged below 80% of their rated capacity"

 

My bold but this is true, is it not.

 

[smileypete]

What it actually says is:

 

" For the best battery life, batteries should not be discharged below 80% of their rated capacity"

 

My bold but this is true, is it not.

 

Best look at what they said right after that , then look at the link to the chart posted earlier.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[bottle]

They said the charger should be matched to the battery bank (to charge within 8 Hrs)

 

The best battery life of course is to never use them and always keep them charged.

 

The chart shows that 80% DOD is getting towards the worst, only 90 and 100% DOD are worse.

 

The difference between 80% DOD to 20% DOD is 2625 cycles on that chart.

 

According to that chart also shows that if the battery was only taken to 10% DOD it could be used for over twice the number of cycles if taken to 20% DOD.

[smileypete]

According to that chart also shows that if the battery was only taken to 10% DOD it could be used for over twice the number of cycles if taken to 20% DOD.

Well, it shows that a 40% DoD (depth of discharge) instead of 80% DoD gives a 10% increase in equivalent cycle life.

 

BUT, you'd have to double the size of the bank to do this, so hardly worth it.

 

Nevertheless this is for proper deep cycle batts, the OP would do well to stick to roughly 50%, most of the time.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[bottle]

Well, it shows that a 40% DoD (depth of discharge) instead of 80% DoD gives a 10% increase in equivalent cycle life.

 

BUT, you'd have to double the size of the bank to do this, so hardly worth it.

 

Nevertheless this is for proper deep cycle batts, the OP would do well to stick to roughly 50%, most of the time.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Are you sure?

 

40% DOD gives 1475

 

80% DOD gives 675

 

My maths is not that good but is that a 10% increase cycles

 

 

ps. I agree that the OP should stick to the 50% as a guideline. I have Deep cycle batteries and still use that as a guide.

 

[swift1894]

 

Nevertheless this is for proper deep cycle batts, the OP would do well to stick to roughly 50%, most of the time.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

That's what I thought ............although my new batteries are semi traction.......... so

[smileypete]

Are you sure?

 

40% DOD gives 1475

 

80% DOD gives 675

 

My maths is not that good but is that a 10% increase cycles

 

 

ps. I agree that the OP should stick to the 50% as a guideline. I have Deep cycle batteries and still use that as a guide.

To compare like with like I prefer to work it out in terms of equivalent full cycles:

 

So 1475 x 40% DoD = 590

 

and 675 x 80% DoD = 540

 

So for these particular batteries, discharging to 40% DoD instead of 80% DoD gives about 10% more equivalent full cycles. Doing a 40% discharge instead of an 80% discharge, you will get a bit more than twice the life time, but of course it needs twice as many batts!

 

So, I think there's not much worthwhile economic benefit there, it's more a matter of personal preference. Of course a batt bank twice as big can be charged up to twice as quickly, but then it needs a bigger genny and charger....

 

So with proper deep cycle batts, I'd be a bit more relaxed at how far they're discharged before charging them again. But most people have leisure batts that are still best discharged to somewhere around 50% most of the time, no matter what it says on the label or the advertising blurb

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~