Best way to heat water for shower in the morning

[smileypete]

I wouldnt mind using the deisal stove but it doesn't seem to heat the water very quickly, rather it heats the boat first. The manual says its essential to turn on the central heating pump but I wonder if turning this pump off will heat the water up quicker.

 

In what way does the diesel stove heat the boat first, with radiators via a backboiler in the stove? If so, and they're fitted with radiator valves, turning them off should allow all the backboiler output to go to the calorifer instead.

 

Turning off the pump when the stove is running will probably end up boiling the water in the stove's backboiler, and make an alarming banging sound and lots of steam

 

If all these boat systems seem a bit puzzling have a google for the 'Tony Brooks Training' website, better still go on one of their courses if near enough.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited August 15, 2014 by smileypete

[Taslim]

As Alan D. E. said. (#25) be more specific about your location and you may find someone local will offer to take a look.

 

If they can't provide an answer then at least they may give you a clue.

[paulstoke1975]

 

Stationary for how long?

 

If just a few days I suggest you just run the engine.

 

If a few weeks I suggest you experiment with the diesel stove as Phil suggests as it will be far quieter, but expensive in diesel. Pump running but rads turned OFF.

 

If permanently then get a Morco gas water heater fitted.

 

 

MtB

 

 

P.S. The immersion heater is SO energy-hungry it is only suitable for when you have a 240Vac shoreline plugged in. It will wreck your batteries if you use it regularly unless you run the engine for hours on end every day to replenish the batteries, in which case the engine will be heating the water anyway!

 

 

being a man in the know,

 

would you know if 6x100 watt solar panels be enough to keep the batteries topped up without having to run the engine for a few hrs every day?

 

also how much roughly does the average engine cost to run per hr?

 

cheers

[Grace and Favour]

Quote "

being a man in the know,

 

would you know if 6x100 watt solar panels be enough to keep the batteries topped up without having to run the engine for a few hrs every day?

 

also how much roughly does the average engine cost to run per hr?

 

cheers"

 

600w of solar, (through a mppt controller) will provide a useful amount of power during the summer, and about 1/10th of it in winter

(it all depends, of course, on how much power you need - which is why folks suggest you do a power audit first - - determine how much power you need, and then design a system to provide the power.)

 

A 1.5Ltr BMC engine uses between 0.75 and 1Ltr of diesel per hour on idle (just driving alternators). but you also need to factor in maintenance costs, and, if being thorough - replacement costs too.

 

When I calculated the overall generation costs incurred with our (bigger) Beta engine - It came out at about >£1.00 per Kwh.

(And solar is a great deal quieter too) - but like all systems on boats - it's most practical having more than one system for everything, (and to all intents and purposes, you will not ever heat water using pv panels)

Edited August 17, 2014 by Grace & Favour

[paulstoke1975]

Quote "

being a man in the know,

 

would you know if 6x100 watt solar panels be enough to keep the batteries topped up without having to run the engine for a few hrs every day?

 

also how much roughly does the average engine cost to run per hr?

 

cheers"

 

600w of solar, (through a mppt controller) will provide a useful amount of power during the summer, and about 1/10th of it in winter

(it all depends, of course, on how much power you need - which is why folks suggest you do a power audit first - - determine how much power you need, and then design a system to provide the power.)

 

A 1.5Ltr BMC engine uses between 0.75 and 1Ltr of diesel per hour on idle (just driving alternators). but you also need to factor in maintenance costs, and, if being thorough - replacement costs too.

 

When I calculated the overall generation costs incurred with our (bigger) Beta engine - It came out at about >£1.00 per Kwh.

(And solar is a great deal quieter too) - but like all systems on boats - it's most practical having more than one system for everything, (and to all intents and purposes, you will not ever heat water using pv panels)

well for me not actually owning my my boat/home yet the spec is obviously unknown, what i am trying to do is get myself as clued up as much as possible before i take to the water ,

 

this site is a full of good advise and a real help and insight to things i would never of thought of before joining,

 

i am hoping to be aboard before xmas (fingers crossed) its all down to my house selling.

[BlueStringPudding]

If I run my engine for an hour I'll have enough hot water for a shower but not much more. If I run my engine for several hours then the water gets really hot and lasts till the next morning.

Insulating my calorifier has helped too

[Grace and Favour]

well for me not actually owning my my boat/home yet the spec is obviously unknown, what i am trying to do is get myself as clued up as much as possible before i take to the water ,

 

this site is a full of good advise and a real help and insight to things i would never of thought of before joining,

 

i am hoping to be aboard before xmas (fingers crossed) its all down to my house selling.

Then your research is a great start.

 

If you plan your boat with high power electrical items, (e.g. - washing machine, freezer, refrigerator) - then you'll need considerable power production, storage and handling systems (generation/batteries/inverter) - It can certainly be done, of course, but it costs.

 

As you scope together the plan for your boat, list the components that you must have (including lights, water pump, bilge pump) and then items that you would prefer to have (e.g. radio, TV, phone charger etc) and then items you would like to have, (maybe) ('fridge, etc).

 

work out what the probable power consumption will be for those things per week, and then start to consider the different options there are for supplying gthe power.

 

It'll give quite an insight into how you need to plan your boat.

[Phil Ambrose]

Also it will give you an insight as to exactly how much power you are going to have to find. If you decide you need the equivalent to the natioal grid at least you will have time to whittle it down to sensible proportions and time to put together a plan for producing that energy.

A good starting point would be to check out posts by members living off grid such as Justme and Julyanian.

Think Solar, genny etc not forgetting somewhere to store your energy ie batteries (what size bank do I need) and of course some means of monitoring your power (many swear by Smartgauge)

Phil

[paulstoke1975]

We'll i do plan on laptop ,TV, fridge and hopefully a washing machine, I'm hoping to buy a liveaboard ready boat but I need to be as clued up as possible to know what is a suitable spec for a liveaboard in the first place ,

[Alan de Enfield]

Washng machine - there are those that have, those that can, and those that wouldn't

 

A washing machine is a SERIOUS drain on a boats electricity - if you power it via an inverter you will be drawing around 200+ amps from the batteries, even if you run the engine at the same time you will be drawing 'loadsa' amps from the batteries.

 

Best plan is to consider a largish Generator of 2.5Kv and run it direct from the 'mains'

 

A 12v fridge will use in the order of 45-50aH per day

 

TV and PC usage will depend on 'size' and speciication. Look at the electrical information plates for the 'watts'

Running mains appliances via an inverter use a factor of 10 to identify amps drawn from the batteries - so a 900 watt electric toaster will use 90 amps, a 50 watt TV will use 5 amps and so on.

 

All this is irrelevent if you are in a marina 'hooked up'

[Arthur Brown]

The issue with washing machines seems to be not only their energy consumption -which you can replace especially if you wash while cruising, but their need for a good clean sign wave at a steady voltage. Some machines will run off inverters some not, some off generators some not. Sometimes the washing machine just NEEDS mains.

[zubeye]

Hi again,

Thanks for al the advice

 

I have disconnected the fridge. Now I just use lights, water pump, and turn the inverter on to charge laptop, mobile phone. What is a rough estimate of minimum engine running time per day? I have 4 lesiure batteries which seem in good knick.

 

Also if I turn on energy intensive items whilst the engine is on, is this 'free' or does this subtract from the charging.

 

Thanks very much!

[Phil Ambrose]

You should invest in a battery monitor as you will be living aboard, that way you can establish exactly how much power you have, how much you have used and how much you need to replace. And as for "free power" it all depends on the output of your alternator, the revs you run your engine at and the SOC of your batteries, hard to give a definitive answer to that one. Battery management is a truly dark art.

Phil

[zubeye]

Thanks Phil that is sensible advice. I am not adverse to spending £££ on a smartguage, but just spotted these cigertte lighter meters on amazon for a couple of quid. I have a cigarette lighter socket next to the fusebox, is this too good to be true?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cigarette-Lighter-Voltage-Voltmeter-BuyinCoins/dp/B0092KVYGI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408468274&sr=8-6&keywords=Voltmeter

[Alan de Enfield]

Thanks Phil that is sensible advice. I am not adverse to spending £££ on a smartguage, but just spotted these cigertte lighter meters on amazon for a couple of quid. I have a cigarette lighter socket next to the fusebox, is this too good to be true?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cigarette-Lighter-Voltage-Voltmeter-BuyinCoins/dp/B0092KVYGI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408468274&sr=8-6&keywords=Voltmeter

 

It will do what it does perfectly, but it will not do what you want it to do.

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks Phil that is sensible advice. I am not adverse to spending £££ on a smartguage, but just spotted these cigertte lighter meters on amazon for a couple of quid. I have a cigarette lighter socket next to the fusebox, is this too good to be true?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cigarette-Lighter-Voltage-Voltmeter-BuyinCoins/dp/B0092KVYGI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408468274&sr=8-6&keywords=Voltmeter

I have one in the lounge area, its a great indicator but that's all. It will give you no idea when your batteries are fully charged. It will tell you that they are getting low and need recharging, but that's not a lot of help at 10pm

[smileypete]

Thanks Phil that is sensible advice. I am not adverse to spending £££ on a smartguage, but just spotted these cigertte lighter meters on amazon for a couple of quid. I have a cigarette lighter socket next to the fusebox, is this too good to be true?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cigarette-Lighter-Voltage-Voltmeter-BuyinCoins/dp/B0092KVYGI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408468274&sr=8-6&keywords=Voltmeter

 

A DC clamp ammeter is very useful for monitoring charging, diagnosing problems, and finding out how much power things use.

 

CPC do one for £30, Maplins do one for £40 or it can be had for £25-30 on Ebay such as the Mastech MS2108A or UT203:

 

http://www.maplin.co...ltimeter-629713

http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/72-7224/clamp-meter-with-frequency/dp/IN05110

http://www.ebay.co.u...efLoc=1&_sop=15

 

Even if you do upgrade to a Smartgauge later on, the clamp meter is still well worth having.

 

Also a 4 digit DC panel voltmeter that reads to 0.01V accuracy can be useful for a rough and ready guide when the batts need charging, not ideal obviously but a lot better then nuthin!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=digital+panel+voltmeter+%2820v%2C+19.99v%29+-ac&LH_PrefLoc=1

 

Voltmeter ideally needs to be wired direct to batt bank takeoffs, and must have a fuse up to 3A in the positive near the batt end.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited August 20, 2014 by smileypete

[zubeye]

I need some help with measuring voltage. I have bought a multimeter but can't reach the batteries. There are four in the engine compartment tightly packed, all facing to the side, so I can only reach one type of battery connector on each battery. I think it's the positive. I can't physically get to a negative without unstrapping the pack. I havn't done this as it would be a 30 minute job each time and I'm looking for a sustainable short term DIY solution until I can get a longer term solution sorted. The electric cupboard looks well sealed too with just the invertor and charger and fusebox on display. Any suggestions?

[Alan de Enfield]

Not ideal - but - just put the 'negative' probe onto the engine / engine mounts / hull and the positive probe on the terminal(s) you can get to.

 

You should get a reading and can decide roughly how full (or flat) your batteries are. (State of Charge)

 

If you test a short time after charging you will get erroneous results - leave it an hour or two.

If you test whils running a heavy load you will get erroneous results.

[Alan Saunders]

A DC clamp ammeter is very useful for monitoring charging, diagnosing problems, and finding out how much power things use.

CPC do one for £30, Maplins do one for £40 or it can be had for £25-30 on Ebay such as the Mastech MS2108A or UT203:

 

http://www.maplin.co...ltimeter-629713

http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/72-7224/clamp-meter-with-frequency/dp/IN05110

http://www.ebay.co.u...efLoc=1&_sop=15

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

I finally bit the bullet and bought a clamp ammeter from Maplin - make sure you get the, more expensive, AC\DC version.

What Pete and the vendors fail to mention is that, using the probes, this is also an adequate DVM and has unusual features like frequency and mark-space ratio.

 

I still miss the 'pulse stretcher' continuity sounder of my now defunct Fluke DVM. A 1ms, oc or sc (~5/10 ohms) produced an audible sound, good for tracing intermittent failures.

 

The UT2003 is a good investment. In 'basic mode' you just switch to 40A (default is DC) place the jaws around a (single) cable and, optionally, press the yellow hold button.

[zubeye]

.

Edited August 25, 2014 by zubeye