Tony Brooks Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Erik.narrowboat said: Forgot to include the photo I'm now away running some errands but will measure the voltage when I'm back It is, how can you tell? That photo is of a so called advanced alternator controller but as there seems to be no "flying lead" on the alternator it is almost certainly redundant. The black Durite box in another photo is of yet another split charge relay It is all getting too complicated. It also seems another master switch has turned up unless its the one you said was by the batteries. Yet more very poor looking terminals are showing up as well.I suspect the easiest and most reliable way of sorting it all out is to wire the charging as per the diagram and remove any cables and equipment that are no longer used. I can not guarantee my wiring diagram is correct for your boat but as far as I am concerned the parts relating to the warning lamps and charging are correct. The diagram should say that the this wire from the ignition switch to small starter terminal is probably already in place so does not need to be moved. Edited to add - the last batch of photos shows a main positive lead that has started burning. Almost certainly as a result of a short circuit such as I forecast with the blue split charge relay. Thai is why its probably now safer to start the charging circuits again. Edited September 2, 2018 by Tony Brooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 I realised after I posted that you might think the diagram I gave was for the whole boat. It is not, it is a diagram for you to work to so that there ill be no unknown connections and the basic charging system will work properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.narrowboat Posted September 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 On 02/09/2018 at 13:09, Tony Brooks said: That photo is of a so called advanced alternator controller but as there seems to be no "flying lead" on the alternator it is almost certainly redundant. The black Durite box in another photo is of yet another split charge relay It is all getting too complicated. It also seems another master switch has turned up unless its the one you said was by the batteries. Yet more very poor looking terminals are showing up as well.I suspect the easiest and most reliable way of sorting it all out is to wire the charging as per the diagram and remove any cables and equipment that are no longer used. I can not guarantee my wiring diagram is correct for your boat but as far as I am concerned the parts relating to the warning lamps and charging are correct. The diagram should say that the this wire from the ignition switch to small starter terminal is probably already in place so does not need to be moved. Edited to add - the last batch of photos shows a main positive lead that has started burning. Almost certainly as a result of a short circuit such as I forecast with the blue split charge relay. Thai is why its probably now safer to start the charging circuits again. The advanced controller has some very thin wires (1-2mm including the harness) coming out of it but does not really seem to be connected to anything. The master switch you see here is the same one as before, there is one for domestics (top) and one for the engine (below). Ideally I would remove all the redundant wires and other redundant parts so it would be easier to see what is there, but this would require identifying what is redundant. I reckon this would be very difficult to do through the forum. However, if there are any parts that I can certainly remove that would be great as there is now just a lot of wire obscuring what is important. Your diagram is very useful for identifying which are the main connections between batteries, ignition and engine and I think I would be able to do this. I understand it does not represent the entire boat. Regarding the last paragraph, what exactly do you mean when you say 'start the charging circuits again'? Does that mean replacing all the wires? The information you and others have provided is really useful, I think it should be enough to work it out. I am just trying to be as sure as possible of what I am doing before I start hence the last questions. Hopefully I can give this a go next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.narrowboat Posted September 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 Btw, I spend much of the weekend cleaning the engine with degreaser (just for kitchens, yellow spray bottle) and it has helped quite a lot in removing dirt and making all parts visible. Shall I use this on the wires as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 42 minutes ago, Erik.narrowboat said: The advanced controller has some very thin wires (1-2mm including the harness) coming out of it but does not really seem to be connected to anything. The master switch you see here is the same one as before, there is one for domestics (top) and one for the engine (below). Ideally I would remove all the redundant wires and other redundant parts so it would be easier to see what is there, but this would require identifying what is redundant. I reckon this would be very difficult to do through the forum. However, if there are any parts that I can certainly remove that would be great as there is now just a lot of wire obscuring what is important. Your diagram is very useful for identifying which are the main connections between batteries, ignition and engine and I think I would be able to do this. I understand it does not represent the entire boat. Regarding the last paragraph, what exactly do you mean when you say 'start the charging circuits again'? Does that mean replacing all the wires? The information you and others have provided is really useful, I think it should be enough to work it out. I am just trying to be as sure as possible of what I am doing before I start hence the last questions. Hopefully I can give this a go next weekend. To remove cables will,as you imply, mean that you might remove stuff you need so things do not work so all along I have been trying to advise you on how to get at least the basic twin bank charging system working. As it already starts we know that part is OK. I suspect the gauge wiring and the oil pressure lamp wiring are all OK. You may well find that some of the existing cables can be used to wire according to the diagram I posted but if not then new cables will be required. That alternator is probably only a 35 amp output so as long as the old cables for the main charging wires are thick then they will do. If running new ones use the multi-strand cable size I have already given. If the old thin cables are used for the same job they they too will be OK to reuse. Otherwise fit new of 2 sq mm CCSA. Battery cables, battery interlinks, battery to master switch and master switch to starter should be of 25 sq mm CCSA minimum as they probably already are. So rewire the charging & instrument system according to the diagram using existing or new wires as required. I would not waste time trying to trace wires that go into the harness, just wire with new ones. Fit new terminals where any existing ones to be reused look loose, corroded, burned or the strands of conductor are exposed and snapping. Once the rewiring is done and you have checked at least twice it is as it should be disconnect any other wires unless you have already disconnected them as being redundant. Insulate the terminals and temporally tape back against the harness or other wires. Then start and rev the engine, make sure both banks charge. Make sure the warning lamps do what they should. Make sure the instrument works. Once that is done check all the domestic circuits work. If thy do then you know all the wires you taped back are no redundant so can be cut back and insulated or the wiring harness split and totally removed if you prefer. TO RUN NEW CABLES First choose the route they need to take to minimise the run length but, more importantly, provide best protection from big feet, mechanical damage and heat. This is likely to be along aathe original harness. Next loosely fit zip-ties (cable ties) along the route no more than 150mm apart but do not pull the up tight, leave them very loose so you can push wires through them. Then run cables leaving (say) 4" to 6" over length at each end so in the future you can cut back and fit new terminals if necessary. Keep wires going to almost the same place almost the same length so they end up looking neat. When all is run and tested you can tighten the zip-ties to give a neat job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Erik.narrowboat said: Shall I use this on the wires as well? Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 If you go ahead and do the job yourself I would mount the VSR close to the back of the two master switches to minimise the run of thick cables. Just make sure that you can see it fairly easily so you can look at the little LED to see when its working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik.narrowboat Posted September 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 Would you mount the VSR in the electric cupboard (where the master switches are) rather than in the engine room, where it currently is? Or did I misinterpret? I was hoping to get rid of some wire because especially around the master switches it's very messy and there is not much space to even run new wires through. But I'll leave that for now as any errors will cause more problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 30 minutes ago, Erik.narrowboat said: Would you mount the VSR in the electric cupboard (where the master switches are) rather than in the engine room Yes. Because you can have nice short cables that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Erik.narrowboat said: Would you mount the VSR in the electric cupboard (where the master switches are) rather than in the engine room, where it currently is? Or did I misinterpret? I was hoping to get rid of some wire because especially around the master switches it's very messy and there is not much space to even run new wires through. But I'll leave that for now as any errors will cause more problems. Yes because there is another split charge relay in the cupboard, its the black box like thing but does not seem to be connected. More importantly as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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