Problem from Kipor KDE 6700T generator

[lesrollins]

Just wondered if anyone can help me with a genny query. I recently brought a second hand kipor 5kva diesel generator to help run things on the boat rather than keep running the boat engine. It runs the immersion, microwave and a 2800w kettle without any problems, not all appliances are on at once. But when I try and run the washing machine which is rated at 2200w it keeps tripping the boat electrics for a short while and then they come back on and then trip again. The Washing machine works with no problems off the travel pack and as also run off marina electrics without any problems. But it is playing up with the genny, as anyone got any ideas how I can overcome this problem.

Thanks

Edited October 23, 2016 by lesrollins

[WotEver]

When you say 'tripping the boat electrics' do you mean that the generator shuts down?

[lesrollins]

No the genny still runs and doesn't trip but the power on the boat trips for a few seconds then it resets itself. No tripping when using other electrical items.

[WotEver]

What exactly is tripping? If it's an RCD they don't reset. Neither do MCBs.

[OldGoat]

Something - in the back of my mind from threads elsewhere -

suggests that these small gennys have an internal inverter to give a smooth output, even if not the engine speeds up or down to accommodate the extra load and washing machines just don't like it...

 

There is a reasonably recent thread that had the same symptoms - microwave OK, washing machine not.

Could that be it??

[lesrollins]

The landline shuts down for a few seconds causing the mains on and the either the bulk, absorption or float light to go off depending whatever stage of charge it is on at the time

The switch would of been on the land line side. Washing machine does not interfere with anything when power is supplied through travel pack or hooked up on mains

[WotEver]

Who knows the Phoenix? Does it do Assist? Sounds like it's unhappy.

[lesrollins]

Assist? What is that. No problems when running any other 240v electrical items using the same way

[WotEver]

Assist is when the inverter will 'add to' a generator supply when the load exceeds a preset figure. If it does, and that figure is set to less than 5kVA, that could be the cause of the problem.

 

I'm aware that everything else works fine, you've already said that.

 

It is very common for washing machines to be extremely fussy with generators but that is normally manifested by the washing machine throwing a strop. In your case your inverter-charger is the one getting upset.

 

I'm wondering if the variable load from the wm is dragging the genny voltage down, affecting the frequency, or otherwise altering the waveform in such a way that the Phoenix can't track it. The Phoenix then shuts down until it's back in sync, then reconnects.

 

Is the shoreline limiter control turned up to full?

[Arthur Brown]

if it reconnects it's NOT a fuse or MCB problem, I'd look at the circuit and way that the mains and generator are connected, and yes any "inverter assist" would be a prime topic of investigation.

 

Pull the plug on the washer out of the wall and run it directly from the generator, see what happens. I'm guessing that the changing load of the washer -especially any water heater, is causing the inverter to demand sudden surges of electricity that the inverter is struggling to provide off an engine running slowly. Do you have the facility to make the engine run at a constant speed rather than being load sensitive. Otherwise add a dummy, resistive load (tungsten lamp, or water heater) of about 10% of the generator rating, this can help with voltage regulation issues

[lesrollins]

The land line is connected from the generator to the land line input of the boat. The charging switch is selected on the inverter and control panel which can be seen in thread above. This is how I have always run any 240v on the boat when a landline is connected into the boat through the landline point of the boat. The inverter is only used in the inverter mode in the evening when there is no land line connected and power is coming from the batteries to supply the 240v tv

The inverter is a victron energy phoenix multiplus 12 volt 1600va 70amp which I presume as been on the boat since it was built in 2005. We have lived aboard for 4 and 1/2 years and it as never been changed.

The Washing machine is a zanussi Electrolux, timeline 1400 jet system 6kg model ZWD1480W again I presume this as been on the boat since being built. Neither inverter or washing machine as given us any grief in the past until we started using the Kipor KDE 6700T diesel generator.

Is there anyway around this problem can I use the washing machine hooked straight to the genny will it give me problems.

I hope this helps

[WotEver]

... can I use the washing machine hooked straight to the genny will it give me problems.

That is exactly what the previous post suggested you try.

 

You didn't answer my question as to whether the incoming limit (big black knob on the right) is turned up to maximum when using the genny.

 

Tony

[lesrollins]

Sorry Tony yes the black knob is on full

[WotEver]

Sorry Tony yes the black knob is on full

Okay, so give the direct connection to the genny a try and let us know how it performs.

 

Another question from someone else that you didn't reply to - is there a setting on the genny for 'constant speed' or similar?

 

Tony

[Keith M]

This may be something to do with Power Boost within the inverter / charger

 

Which can be adjusted

 

Some inverter type generator do upset victron inverter / chargers

 

Keith

[WotEver]

This may be something to do with Power Boost within the inverter / charger

 

Which can be adjusted

 

Some inverter type generator do upset victron inverter / chargers

 

Keith

Yep. I think it's called something like 'weak waveform' or similar. I just wanted to know what happens if driven directly. If it's okay then we can look closer at the inverter.

[lesrollins]

I have not tried the w/m direct yet perhaps when I'm off work. How do I get the sensitivity of the inverter/charger changed would it damage the inverter

[WotEver]

I have not tried the w/m direct yet perhaps when I'm off work. How do I get the sensitivity of the inverter/charger changed would it damage the inverter

It's a setting on some of them. Perhaps a dip-switch setting. Do you have a manual for it?

[WotEver]

 

See page 17 - "Mains Waveform Check"

https://www.victronenergy.com/Manuals/PhoenixMulti/UKISM010054000-rev00.pdf

 

If the wm is happy connected directly to the genny then try turning the above setting off.

[lesrollins]

If I connected the wm straight to the genny why would I need to turn the setting off on the victron as it would not be running through the victron.

[Alan de Enfield]

To 'isolate' the wm completely,

 

Disconnect the generator from the boat.

Disconnect the washing machine plug from the 'boat circuit'

Plug the wm plug into an extension lead.

Plug the extension lead into the generator.

 

Run generator

Does Wm run / cycle OK ?

Does Generator run OK ?

 

If everything is OK, then the 'fault' is somewhere in your domestic wiring between your 'blue inlet plug' and the wm socket (that includes the Victron)

 

If the wm or the generator don't 'run' (yet the wm runs OK when connected to a land line), then the 'problem' is with your genny.

[WotEver]

If I connected the wm straight to the genny why would I need to turn the setting off on the victron as it would not be running through the victron.

Because it would be best for you to not have to connect the wm direct to the genny but leave everything alone. So if you know it runs happily direct from the genny plug it back how it's normally connected, change the above setting and try it again.

 

If the wm or the generator don't 'run' (yet the wm runs OK when connected to a land line), then the 'problem' is with your genny.

Precisely. We're trying to isolate whether it's the genny or the Victron. My money is on the latter.