POWERMASTER, has anyone heard of these?

[mross]

OK, my bad.

[christophert]

I'm wondering if it's just tired through age and not doing its job properly, even though the indicator lights are showing it is. Thank you all. Your support is fantastic and most appreciated

[mross]

Have you been running the inverter until it trips on undervoltage?

[christophert]

Have you been running the inverter until it trips on undervoltage?

Yes I have, but been a case of having to recently. Disconnected batteries this morning so all standing individually. I'll monitor them throughout the day

[Alan de Enfield]

Have you been running the inverter until it trips on undervoltage?

 

Yes I have, but been a case of having to recently.

Would you be kind enough to explain why this is so ?

[WotEver]

I'm wondering if it's just tired through age and not doing its job properly, even though the indicator lights are showing it is. Thank you all. Your support is fantastic and most appreciated

 

Ammeter...

[christophert]

Ammeters can tell you a lot if you know what they are saying, especially when used in conjunction with an accurate voltmeter.

 

I've got three ammeters - one on the negative return which tells me the net total going into or out of the batteries, one on the DC panel meter giving the non-inverter current, and therefore by inference the difference gives me the current used by the inverter.

 

The third one is on the supply from the solar panel, after the controller. I think a lot of people would benefit from this - only a few pounds, with shunt, on eBay. There must be a lot of people who haven't got a clue how much their panel is producing, going by the number you see with ropes across them or partially shaded some other way. The cells are in series and increase resistance when shaded, so only a small area needs to be in the shade to significantly drop the output.

 

Sad case that I am, I also have four voltmeters, including one in the saloon so I can watch it all evening.

No, I think what you have is really good. I don't have any way of monitoring anything! Not a dial in sight. The boat was built in 89 and a quality built boat, but I think they must have got bored when it came to the engine room as electrics are a shamble, wires everywhere.

 

Now I know my inverter is a 3k I'm now going to get bigger batteries as the ones on are 110s - only two, as the third leisure is used as the starter battery - and I'm going to have 600w of solar. But meters are a must, have none at all.

[WotEver]

Posted in the wrong thread was...

 

According to the manual it will operate on an input of 10 to 16V. This implies that you have been taking the batteries down to 10V.

... which will kill them pdq.

Now I know my inverter is a 3k I'm now going to get bigger batteries as the ones on are 110s - only two, as the third leisure is used as the starter battery - and I'm going to have 600w of solar. But meters are a must, have none at all.

 

I suggest you buy nothing other than an ammeter for the moment. Then when you know what's happening you can move forward with the knowledge that what you're buying will all work together.

 

It doesn't matter how big your bank is, you still have to replace approximately 120% of what you use.

[ditchcrawler]

Yes, I apologise for that, I was mixing you up with another poster who recently said that he hates electrics and was basically burying his head in the sand. So that was completely uneccessary. Please accept my apology.

 

Edited for auto-incorrect.

I missed that as well.

[christophert]

 

Would you be kind enough to explain why this is so ?

Yes, in the past, when out on the cut, I've had the inverter on, then about 6 in the evening I've ran the engine for a few hours. So everyday when out this has been the case. Just recently, the inverter has been going off after a couple of hours of running the engine. Where before I've ran the engine in the morning then again in the evening with the inverter not going off, so keeping the batteries happy and inverter happy. But recently inverter going off with warnings of low batteries within a few hours

Posted in the wrong thread was...

 

... which will kill them pdq.

 

I suggest you buy nothing other than an ammeter for the moment. Then when you know what's happening you can move forward with the knowledge that what you're buying will all work together.

 

It doesn't matter how big your bank is, you still have to replace approximately 120% of what you use.

Ahhh, Please bear with me as trying to get my head around all this. So the charger isn't doing the job needed then?

[mross]

Yes, I apologise for that, I was mixing you up with another poster who recently said that he hates electrics and was basically burying his head in the sand. So that was completely uneccessary. Please accept my apology.

 

Edited for auto-incorrect.

Actually OP did say that - in post #23

[christophert]

I may well be wrong here, but - I have disconnected the battery bank so I can monitor the charge they hold throughout the day. But the fridge is now off. It is a shorline which is 12/240v. Surely it should now be working off the 240 shorline now??? This has totally thrown me!

[WotEver]

So the charger isn't doing the job needed then?

 

I don't know why you are fixated on your charger being faulty. You simply don't know, because you have no ammeter, but if all the pretty lights are on then it's unlikely.

 

Here is where I think you're at...

 

1. Your batteries are shagged. They have very little capacity left.

2. Because of (1.) they will charge up very quickly but will also drain very quickly because they aren't holding much charge.

3. Repeatedly taking them down to circa 10V will have finished them off completely.

4. You have been under-charging and over-discharging for a while. We don't know how long and by how much because you don't have any means of monitoring either.

 

An ammeter is an urgent buy. A SmartGauge would be a highly recommended second buy.

 

Tony

Actually OP did say that - in post #23

 

Maybe I'll take back my apology then

I may well be wrong here, but - I have disconnected the battery bank so I can monitor the charge they hold throughout the day. But the fridge is now off. It is a shorline which is 12/240v. Surely it should now be working off the 240 shorline now??? This has totally thrown me!

 

They usually have to be switched over to 240V manually.

As Mike recently observed, nearly all electrical threads eventually boil down to "You're not charging your batteries enough".

[mross]

Or could it be a 12/24 volt model and OP is short sighted???

[christophert]

Or could it be a 12/24 volt model and OP is short sighted???

No, not short sighted .... then I do have to put my head down the toilet bowl to make sure I've been :-)

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I don't know why you are fixated on your charger being faulty. You simply don't know, because you have no ammeter, but if all the pretty lights are on then it's unlikely.

 

Here is where I think you're at...

 

1. Your batteries are shagged. They have very little capacity left.

2. Because of (1.) they will charge up very quickly but will also drain very quickly because they aren't holding much charge.

3. Repeatedly taking them down to circa 10V will have finished them off completely.

4. You have been under-charging and over-discharging for a while. We don't know how long and by how much because you don't have any means of monitoring either.

 

 

Christopher - please read and take on board the above 4 points.

 

A number of us have been telling you this for the last couple of days, but you seem fixated on your charger.

 

Running your engine for 2 hours per day does nothing to recharge your batteries - unless you are a very 'light' user (which it appears that you are not) then you should need to run the engine at least 4 hours per day and 8 hours + per day at weekends. The 'not charging properly' regime has caused the problem and will not be resolved by buying more batteries.

[christophert]

 

Christopher - please read and take on board the above 4 points.

 

A number of us have been telling you this for the last couple of days, but you seem fixated on your charger.

 

Running your engine for 2 hours per day does nothing to recharge your batteries - unless you are a very 'light' user (which it appears that you are not) then you should need to run the engine at least 4 hours per day and 8 hours + per day at weekends. The 'not charging properly' regime has caused the problem and will not be resolved by buying more batteries.

Thank you, I have taken on board the above four points. Why do I seem fixated on the charger? Is it not wise to look at all scenarios? I said - 'not too sure if I can have my battery charger tested, but if not, a new battery charger may be a step in the right direction,' I was asked a question on what model charger and responded, also posted a pic.

Someone responded - 'According to the manual it will operate on an input of 10 to 16V. This implies that you have been taking the batteries down to 10V.' Hence my reply - 'So the charger isn't doing the job needed then?' I don''t know. I'm trying to learn.

 

When we take her out on weekends, we only use 12v lights and 12v TV for a few hours. We run the engine for few hours in morning and again in evening. Nothing heavy is used to drain batteries. This has been the case for years on old batteries which lasted eight years. These batteries are two years old. I'm doing nothing different to what I did before.

 

[ditchcrawler]

I may well be wrong here, but - I have disconnected the battery bank so I can monitor the charge they hold throughout the day. But the fridge is now off. It is a shorline which is 12/240v. Surely it should now be working off the 240 shorline now??? This has totally thrown me!

And that could well be what is pulling you batteries down especially if its running from your inverter.

 

Edit

Do they make a 12/240 volt fridge, I can only see 12/24 volt ones.

Edited October 11, 2016 by ditchcrawler

[Alan de Enfield]

 

When we take her out on weekends, we only use 12v lights and 12v TV for a few hours. We run the engine for few hours in morning and again in evening. Nothing heavy is used to drain batteries. This has been the case for years on old batteries which lasted eight years. These batteries are two years old. I'm doing nothing different to what I did before.

 

 

Sorry to labour the points, but I am getting confused, and, mixed messages.

 

You have nothing on 220v but the inverter is running ?

You are cruising but you are using the battery charger ?

 

You are not trying to charge the batteries (power the charger) via the inverter are you ?

 

Something must have changed - the last set of batteries lasted 8 years and these have lasted 2 years - these batteries cannot be 'faulty' as they have lasted a 'reasonable' length of time (even for a leisure user)

 

It is very difficult to make a diagnosis by internet when it takes many questions and answers to try and 'tease out' the reality of the situation.

 

We do want to help you and save you wasting money on more batteries but need all of the information - can you give a bullet point breakdown of your boat usage - and actual electrical usage - and recharging times / methods.

[WotEver]

Thank you, I have taken on board the above four points. Why do I seem fixated on the charger? Is it not wise to look at all scenarios? I said - 'not too sure if I can have my battery charger tested, but if not, a new battery charger may be a step in the right direction,' I was asked a question on what model charger and responded, also posted a pic.

Someone responded - 'According to the manual it will operate on an input of 10 to 16V. This implies that you have been taking the batteries down to 10V.' Hence my reply - 'So the charger isn't doing the job needed then?' I don''t know. I'm trying to learn.

 

When we take her out on weekends, we only use 12v lights and 12v TV for a few hours. We run the engine for few hours in morning and again in evening. Nothing heavy is used to drain batteries. This has been the case for years on old batteries which lasted eight years. These batteries are two years old. I'm doing nothing different to what I did before.

 

Without an ammeter everything is guesswork.

 

It's like taking a modern car to a garage with no code reader: they can keep changing sensors and other parts and maybe they'll find the culprit, or they can plug a reader in and know instantly that it's the air mass sensor.

[mross]

Do you use shore power?

[christophert]

And that could well be what is pulling you batteries down especially if its running from your inverter.

 

Edit

Do they make a 12/240 volt fridge, I can only see 12/24 volt ones.

 

And that could well be what is pulling you batteries down especially if its running from your inverter.

 

Edit

Do they make a 12/240 volt fridge, I can only see 12/24 volt ones.

Could be getting somewhere here. Fridge should automatically switch to mains when plugged into shoreline. At the moment I have a dead fridge, been constantly running off batteries I guess.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Someone responded - 'According to the manual it will operate on an input of 10 to 16V. This implies that you have been taking the batteries down to 10V.' Hence my reply - 'So the charger isn't doing the job needed then?' I don''t know. I'm trying to learn.

 

 

 

The Inverter usage and applicable voltage range of 10-16v is totally separate and irrelevant to your battery charger working / not working.

 

The inverter takes DC power from the batteries and converts it (inverts it) to mains AC voltage at about 230v.

The battery charger takes mains AC mains at about 230v and reduces it to 12v DC to charge the battery.

 

You can only use the battery charger when plugged into a 'landline' in the marina / mooring.

You can use the Inverter 24/7 to power mains appliances on the boat.

 

Just as an example - Take a 1000w immersion heater, if you try to run this via the inverter (powered from the batteries) it will draw 100amps

(in one hour it would take 100Ah & would take your 2x 110Ah batteries to 50% SoC - if they were brand new)

If you run the same immersion heater from the mains power (shoreline) it would draw 4amps.

 

Because your batteries are going flat you are assuming that your charger is not working - are you also assuming therefore that the engine alternator(s) are also not working ?

 

All that flat batteries means is that you are taking out (somehow)

1) More than they can hold (reduced capacity)

2) More than you have put in with your charger.

 

Could be getting somewhere here. Fridge should automatically switch to mains when plugged into shoreline. At the moment I have a dead fridge, been constantly running off batteries I guess.

 

You should have a change-over switch somewhere - you cannot have two sources of 'mains voltage' (ie you must switch off the inverter before you plug in the shoreline - or have some clever automatic electronics)

Have you used 'much' electric on your bollard ?

 

 

Maybe you think you have been on 'landline' but have not actually switched over to it - in which case I would suggest that you have not only been running the fridge continuously from your batteries but have been running the battery charger from the batteries (via the inverter)

Edited October 11, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[mross]

Shoreline make fridges that run on 12V or 24 V unless yours is a custom. When on shore power the battery charger will replace the energy supplied from the batteries to the fridge. Please tell us the model number of your fridge. A photo of the nameplate would be great. This might be inside the fridge on the door jamb.

[christophert]

Without an ammeter everything is guesswork.

 

It's like taking a modern car to a garage with no code reader: they can keep changing sensors and other parts and maybe they'll find the culprit, or they can plug a reader in and know instantly that it's the air mass sensor.

 

Sorry to labour the points, but I am getting confused, and, mixed messages.

 

You have nothing on 220v but the inverter is running ?

You are cruising but you are using the battery charger ?

 

You are not trying to charge the batteries (power the charger) via the inverter are you ?

 

Something must have changed - the last set of batteries lasted 8 years and these have lasted 2 years - these batteries cannot be 'faulty' as they have lasted a 'reasonable' length of time (even for a leisure user)

 

It is very difficult to make a diagnosis by internet when it takes many questions and answers to try and 'tease out' the reality of the situation.

 

We do want to help you and save you wasting money on more batteries but need all of the information - can you give a bullet point breakdown of your boat usage - and actual electrical usage - and recharging times / methods.

 

Please don't apologise, I really appreciate your time and help.

 

-- Batterycharger is switched off when not on shoreline.

-- Inverter put on for short time to top up charge of phones and laptop. Very aware of what to use when not connected to shoreline.

-- Engine is run twice a day for two hour periods - Alternator is 2 years old and 80amp. Working fine.

 

Just found out ShoreLine Marine fridge is not working off 240 mains. Batteries are now disconnected and fridge should auto change to mains when plugged into shoreline power. I'm going to check the obvious being the fuse in the plug, then pull fridge out and check for any fuses in the back. Just wondering, our electric bills have been high, so poss fridge constantly running off batteries and battery charger working overtime. ?

Edited October 11, 2016 by Theo
Correct quote style